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#1 Virumstein

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 06:57 AM

Hey everyone! In light of recent problems with cross-x, I think it's time we look at some alternatives. I think that there are a lot of valuable resources here, and we need to find a way to preserve that. With that in mind, I think that shifting sites would be good. I don't know how well this is known but there is a debate discord server, currently standing at 1500+ members. There we have multiple people (myself included) frequently judging debates and giving advice, including some college debaters and coaches. There are a few key benefits to switching, some of them related to Vdebates, which is why I put this here. 

 

1) Site stability- The discord server is not only stable, but it's growing, which I think is important to consider. There are no upload issues, or worries of it going down anytime soon. 

 

2) User friendlyness/activity- The structure of Discord makes the server much much easier to use. You can easily set up group chats and discussions, and it has a much cleaner interface that is better able to accommodate new users. Due to this, there's a large degree of activity, for the ODT a lot of the participants are active on the server. 

 

3) Vdebate 2.0- The discord server has voice servers, which allows actual rounds, real spreading, and real debates. We often even have enough judges to have panels, and are able to give extended oral RFD's and advice. This would allow for Vdebate to take off on a whole new level, instead of just typing, we could move to real rounds that are better practice for real tournaments. 

 

4) Resources- The server often finds books and literature we have hard times finding, including stuff not always found on scihub or libgen. 

 

All in all, I don't run the server, but I've found a welcoming home there, and I've been able to debate and judge there for quite some time. I think that beginning to shift there would allow for better vdebates, and ultimately, the resources and activity there make it a better resource than cross x. We could also begin transferring some of the old explanations there, and beginning to file them. 

 

The invite link is: debate.carro.cat

 

It redirects to the discord invite, feel free to join. I hope to see you all there. 

 

Feel free to message me on here if you have any questions or concerns. 


Edited by Virumstein, 11 May 2018 - 07:00 AM.

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Queer, here, and somethin' to fear

 

"There was a cop on his stomach in his tactical uniform with a drag queen straddling him. She was beating the hell out of him with her shoe, whether it was a high heel or not I don't know, but she was beating the hell out of him. It was hysterical."

 

- Rudy 


#2 Virumstein

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 06:59 AM

If this isn't okay here I can transfer it somewhere else, just let me know where to put it. 


  • 1

Queer, here, and somethin' to fear

 

"There was a cop on his stomach in his tactical uniform with a drag queen straddling him. She was beating the hell out of him with her shoe, whether it was a high heel or not I don't know, but she was beating the hell out of him. It was hysterical."

 

- Rudy 


#3 KushPatel

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 02:43 PM

So this sounds very appealing, but I'm not very familiar with discord. Is there any way you can put some specific instructions on how to use it?


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First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
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#4 KushPatel

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 05:47 PM

Nvm had a friend teach me how to use it


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#5 Chaos

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 07:19 PM

In my opinion, /r/policydebate is a better place for people to migrate to than the Discord channel. On the Discord, comments can go by very fast, and are very difficult, realistically impossible, to recover once overlooked. That has two negative implications. First, there's no permanent store of knowledge that can be built up over time. Second, people have to compete with one another more intensely for attention. This encourages blippy and memeish discussion.

The Discord is very useful for live debates. In all other respects, the subreddit is as good or better.


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There are no differences but differences of degree between different degrees of difference and no difference.


#6 Virumstein

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 07:53 PM

In my opinion, /r/policydebate is a better place for people to migrate to than the Discord channel. On the Discord, comments can go by very fast, and are very difficult, realistically impossible, to recover once overlooked. That has two negative implications. First, there's no permanent store of knowledge that can be built up over time. Second, people have to compete with one another more intensely for attention. This encourages blippy and memeish discussion.

The Discord is very useful for live debates. In all other respects, the subreddit is as good or better.

 

I disagree to some extent, I think the live nature of the discord creates more active discussion over key questions. I also acknowledge that things can move fast, but we also tend to tell people to DM us if they need more in depth help. We also can build up more permanent storing of things through things like the google drive k lit library we have in pins chat. It's also easier to get help finding literature there than the reddit. 

 

We have had plenty of non-memey discussions, and I think that quite honestly there's not much competition for attention, we strive to help everyone. 

 

Also if you're on the discord Ephemerality is my user


  • 1

Queer, here, and somethin' to fear

 

"There was a cop on his stomach in his tactical uniform with a drag queen straddling him. She was beating the hell out of him with her shoe, whether it was a high heel or not I don't know, but she was beating the hell out of him. It was hysterical."

 

- Rudy 


#7 Lukrau

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Posted 12 May 2018 - 09:48 PM

I disagree to some extent, I think the live nature of the discord creates more active discussion over key questions. I also acknowledge that things can move fast, but we also tend to tell people to DM us if they need more in depth help. We also can build up more permanent storing of things through things like the google drive k lit library we have in pins chat. It's also easier to get help finding literature there than the reddit. 

 

We have had plenty of non-memey discussions, and I think that quite honestly there's not much competition for attention, we strive to help everyone. 

 

Also if you're on the discord Ephemerality is my user

Also on the discord LD is a thing, whereas the LD subreddit is dead af

 

(And thanks ephemerality I was AnswerIsSpeedforce and you gave me good answers to my questions about queer theory on the discord)


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#8 Virumstein

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 06:13 AM

As of now there's another reason to prefer the discord, I recently started an initiative to get college debaters and coaches to join and provide advice and judge rounds. I can personally attest that some pretty cool people (and successful coaches and debaters on the college level) are actively joining as of now. 

 

It's a format that will eventually allow for lectures and maybe even demo debates from some of the best minds in the country. 


  • 0

Queer, here, and somethin' to fear

 

"There was a cop on his stomach in his tactical uniform with a drag queen straddling him. She was beating the hell out of him with her shoe, whether it was a high heel or not I don't know, but she was beating the hell out of him. It was hysterical."

 

- Rudy 


#9 Miro

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 03:30 PM

I don't think Cross-X is quite done yet and still has lots of valuable discussion.

 

That said, I would also like to put in a positive word for /r/policydebate (full disclosure, I am part of the modteam). I don't really use discord, but from my understanding I don't think that the discord and subreddit really trade off with each other, but rather fill different roles. That's actually why we link to the discord on the subreddit sidebar, though I'm not sure if the discord does the same vice versa. 

 

I think that Discord has some really strong potential for vdebates and casual discussion about debate and from what I've gathered from the above posts, some really interesting resources. That said, discord and other chat mechanisms are a much bigger departure from forums like CX and thus risks losing some of the benefits, things like long advice posts and more in-depth discussion. The discord is also a few hundred people smaller than the subreddit. 

 

Another advantage that both /r/policydebate and probably the Discord also have over cross-x.com is responsive modteams that takes concerns of users and reports seriously. 

 

I encourage you to check both of them out! As some examples of things that /r/policydebate has to offer, there's

 

File givewaways

 

In-depth topic discussion

 

Detailed research tips from college debaters/coaches 1

 

2

 

And of course, memes


Edited by Miro, 17 May 2018 - 09:19 AM.

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I suppose you were looking for something clever here....
Spoiler

#10 OGRawrcat

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 09:41 PM

What's disappointing is that had this site been maintained and regularly updated, all of those features would be logical additions and then some.

RIP
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srsly?

#11 Virumstein

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 06:15 AM

What's disappointing is that had this site been maintained and regularly updated, all of those features would be logical additions and then some.

RIP

 

I definitely agree, but as of now we need to start thinking of what we can do to maximize what we've got. I think resources like the reddit are good, but i'll personally always use the discord more. 

 

We just had an amazing afropess lecture by Pia Sen from UT yesterday, it's recorded if anyone wants a link later. 


  • 1

Queer, here, and somethin' to fear

 

"There was a cop on his stomach in his tactical uniform with a drag queen straddling him. She was beating the hell out of him with her shoe, whether it was a high heel or not I don't know, but she was beating the hell out of him. It was hysterical."

 

- Rudy 


#12 monkeybusiness

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 01:20 AM

What's disappointing is that had this site been maintained and regularly updated, all of those features would be logical additions and then some.

RIP

Still could happen, we just need someone to do pro bono to get the site from the owner. 


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#13 Virumstein

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 06:11 AM

Still could happen, we just need someone to do pro bono to get the site from the owner. 

 

People have tried, the owner won't sell


  • 0

Queer, here, and somethin' to fear

 

"There was a cop on his stomach in his tactical uniform with a drag queen straddling him. She was beating the hell out of him with her shoe, whether it was a high heel or not I don't know, but she was beating the hell out of him. It was hysterical."

 

- Rudy 


#14 OGRawrcat

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 12:45 PM

People have tried, the owner won't sell


I wonder how much they even value the site in dollar value at this point since they don't do much with it. There's no way it provides that much passive income. I think it could still be revitalized but it would take work.
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srsly?

#15 NickDB8

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 01:38 PM

People have tried, the owner won't sell

Maybe idk law, but there was a discussion of essentially seizing the site through court because of a lack of payment through Evazon, thus getting us a new owner. Not sure if that's feasible, though


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#16 monkeybusiness

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 04:36 PM

I wonder how much they even value the site in dollar value at this point since they don't do much with it. There's no way it provides that much passive income. I think it could still be revitalized but it would take work.

debaters are good at working hard though

 

Maybe idk law, but there was a discussion of essentially seizing the site through court because of a lack of payment through Evazon, thus getting us a new owner. Not sure if that's feasible, though

that's what I meant by pro bono work; a lawyer who used to debate might get a small claims court to order the host service to hand access to the server over. 


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#17 monkeybusiness

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 04:36 PM

I wonder how much they even value the site in dollar value at this point since they don't do much with it. There's no way it provides that much passive income. I think it could still be revitalized but it would take work.

I don't think its providing any kind of passive income at all since the site doesn't have ads. 


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#18 OGRawrcat

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 05:01 PM

I don't think its providing any kind of passive income at all since the site doesn't have ads.


They must get some extra money from not paying evazon authors if people are still buying files.
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#19 Chaos

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 06:38 PM

I think going to court with Evazon related claims could be a bad idea. It seems unlikely that selling files which give limited access to paywalled articles would be considered to fall under fair use.


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There are no differences but differences of degree between different degrees of difference and no difference.


#20 monkeybusiness

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 06:48 PM

They must get some extra money from not paying evazon authors if people are still buying files.

I don't think anyone has bought files in a long time. 


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