Jump to content

Photo
- - - - -

Human extinction good


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 mutd

mutd

    Junior-Varsity

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts
0
Neutral

Posted 10 September 2017 - 07:23 PM

Hi, I was just looking over a bunch of neg offcases and wanted to know more about the args against this specific one. I've attached the file. 

 

So I understand that these cards are saying 

- aliens exist

- human extinction good because we kill off other species and stuff

- human survival=universe goes boom

 

what are the arguments you would make against this and what are some good responses? I just want to be prepared for the most common args. 

 

Thanks

Attached Files


Edited by mutd, 10 September 2017 - 07:47 PM.

  • 0

#2 mutd

mutd

    Junior-Varsity

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts
0
Neutral

Posted 10 September 2017 - 07:24 PM

also do u think its a good idea to run this


  • 0

#3 AQuackDebater

AQuackDebater

    Kind of a fascist

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 520 posts
244
Excellent
  • Name:Patrick Fox
  • School:Jack C. Hays High School

Posted 10 September 2017 - 07:47 PM

its not a K, its an impact turn. I haven;t opened the file but you're describing wipeout. Human extinction good because there are more aliens than humans and if humanity survives much longer we'll like destroy the universe. UTNIF put out a file on it this year called like creative impact turns or some shit. good stuff.

 

Just say a - humans dont kill everything, b - no aliens, and c - fuck aliens anyways


Edited by AQuackDebater, 10 September 2017 - 07:47 PM.

  • 2
WHO ON HELL IS THIS FUCK BAUDRILLARD? BALSAS 06 [BALSAS is an interdisciplinary journal on media culture.  Interview with Art Group BBM, “on first cyborgs, aliens and other sides of new technologies,” translated from lithiuanian http://www.balsas.cc/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=151] JCH-PF

Valentinas: We all know that Jean Baudrillard did not believe that the Gulf War did take place, as it was over-mediated and over-simulated. In fact, the Gulf War II is still not over, and Iraq became much more than just a Frankenstein laboratory for the new media, technology and “democracy” games. What can we learn from wars that do not take place, even though they cannot be finished? Are they becoming a symptom of our times as a confrontation between multiple time-lines, ideologies and technologies in a single place? Lars: Actually, it has always been the same: new wars have been better test-beds for the state of art technologies and the latest computer-controlled firearms. The World War I already was a fully mechanized war where pre-robots were fighting each other and gassing the troops. And afterwards, the winners shape the new world order. Olaf: Who on hell is Baudrillard? The one who earns money by publishing his prognoses after the things happen? What a fuck, French philosophy deals too much with luxury problems and elegantly ignores the problem itself. It’s no wonder, this is the colonizer’s mentality, you can hear it roaring in their words: they use phrases made to camouflage genocide. I went to see that Virilio’s exhibition "Ce qui arrive" at Foundation Cartier in 2003. I was smashed by that banal presentation of the evil of all kinds: again, natural catastrophes and evil done by man were exposed on the same wall, glued together with a piece of "theory". There you find it all, filed up in one row: the pure luxury of the Cartier-funded Jean Nouvel building, an artwork without any blood in its veins, and that late Christian philosophy about the techno-cataclysm being the revenge of God. Pure shit, turned into gold in the holy cellars of the modern alchemists’ museums. The artist-made video "documents" of the Manhattan towers opposed to Iraqian war pictures: that’s not Armageddon, that’s man-invented war technology to be used to subdue others. And there is always somebody who pushes the buttons, even when the button is a computer mouse some ten thousand kilometers away from the place where people die, or even if it is a civil airplanes redirected by Islamists. Everybody knows that. War technology has always been made to make killing easier. And to produce martyrs as well. Janneke: Compare Baudrillard with Henry Dunant, the founder of the International Committee of the Red Cross. Dunant was no philosopher, he was just an intelligent rich man in the late 19th century. But his ideas went far more in the direction where you should hope to find philosophers as well. He experienced war as a "randonneur": he passed by, he saw the suffering and the inhumanity of war. And he felt obliged to act. Apart from the maybe 10 days he spent on the battlefield, on the beautiful meadows in the Europeans Alps, helping wounded people to survive, as a complete medical layman he decided to do something more sustainable against these odds. He knew that his efforts couldn’t prevent war in general, but he felt that he could alter the cruelty of reality. And he succeeded in doing it. No wonder that in our days we find the most engaged people to support the TROIA projects intention in Geneva, where they are still based. And they are not only doing their necessary surgeon’s work in the field: they are as well fighting with the same energy on the diplomatic battlefield.

 

Check out the small school starter pack! https://www.cross-x....l-starter-pack/


#4 TheSnowball

TheSnowball

    Hall of Fame

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,558 posts
970
Excellent
  • Name:Ryan

Posted 10 September 2017 - 08:32 PM

Also read Bostrom and be like "humans are really great and should not die."


Edited by TheSnowball, 11 September 2017 - 01:34 PM.

  • 1

Daily Evidence Card!
Exodus Files!

This cross-ex is taking too long.

Kafka 25 (Franz, Novelist, Translated by David Wyllie, "The Trial", 1925) //Snowball

K. was informed by telephone that there would be a small hearing concerning his case the following Sunday. He was made aware that these cross examinations would follow one another regularly, perhaps not every week but quite frequently. On the one hand it was in everyone’s interest to bring proceedings quickly to their conclusion, but on the other hand every aspect of the examinations had to be carried out thoroughly without lasting too long because of the associated stress. For these reasons, it had been decided to hold a series of brief examinations following on one after another. Sunday had been chosen as the day for the hearings so that K. would not be disturbed in his professional work. It was assumed that he would be in agreement with this, but if he wished for another date then, as far as possible, he would be accommodated. Cross-examinations could even be held in the night, for instance, but K. would probably not be fresh enough at that time. Anyway, as long as K. made no objection, the hearing would be left on Sundays. It was a matter of course that he would have to appear without fail, there was probably no need to point this out to him. He would be given the number of the building where he was to present himself, which was in a street in a suburb well away from the city centre which K. had never been to before.


#5 CoachMel

CoachMel

    Novice

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 7 posts
0
Neutral
  • Name:Melissa A Kent
  • School:Solon High School

Posted 14 September 2017 - 07:31 PM

This is close to a K.  You need an alternative.  The implied alternative is reject aff plan, and imbrace human extinction.  You also need a link.  Pretty obvious in this case that the link is the aff seeks to avoid human extinction.  Next is the impact which you have laid out already with the existing cards. 

 

In sum, the main args are no alternative, no reason to prefer K over plan.  No link.  

 

Good luck with this arg!  I can see teams struggling to counter this argument with solid evidence. 


  • 0

#6 seanarchy

seanarchy

    Varsity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 39 posts
26
Good
  • Name:Sean
  • School:Oakland Tech

Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:43 PM

In sum, the main args are no alternative, no reason to prefer K over plan.  No link.


I think this is a bit of a misconception. Wipeout is not a K, it's a rather specific and also rather dumb impact turn. I think Patrick covered the most intuitive answers. I'll also point out, having read the evidence, that it says nowhere that aliens actually exist, just that some guy thought we were gonna find microbes 3 years ago.

There's obviously going to be a link if the plan prevents extinction, and the reason to prefer is the impact. You've literally said the plan would be actively preventing this great thing, which is human extinction. There's no need to have an alt, because the status quo will solve by killing us all. This more like a disadvantage that links to the impact than it is a K.

The answers to Wipeout are really just that the premises it takes are dumb, not that the plan doesn't link.
  • 0

#7 elmeryang00

elmeryang00

    Champion

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 103 posts
76
Excellent
  • Name:Elmer Yang
  • School:Mckinney Boyd

Posted 15 September 2017 - 05:30 AM

If people want to read this K - Just read Ligotti ... Wipeout without the ridiculous impacts (outside of Aliens)


Edited by elmeryang00, 15 September 2017 - 06:07 AM.

  • 1

#8 AQuackDebater

AQuackDebater

    Kind of a fascist

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 520 posts
244
Excellent
  • Name:Patrick Fox
  • School:Jack C. Hays High School

Posted 15 September 2017 - 06:12 AM

I think this is a bit of a misconception. Wipeout is not a K, it's a rather specific and also rather dumb impact turn. I think Patrick covered the most intuitive answers. I'll also point out, having read the evidence, that it says nowhere that aliens actually exist, just that some guy thought we were gonna find microbes 3 years ago.

I mean the Drake equation is a bit more nuanced than that, but yeah basically the ev says "probability wise, there should be a lot of aliens in the universe.

There's obviously going to be a link if the plan prevents extinction, and the reason to prefer is the impact. You've literally said the plan would be actively preventing this great thing, which is human extinction. There's no need to have an alt, because the status quo will solve by killing us all. This more like a disadvantage that links to the impact than it is a K.
It's an impact turn, yeah. Same as like dedev, spark, or heg bad.

The answers to Wipeout are really just that the premises it takes are dumb, not that the plan doesn't link.

Yeah like I  said, just say they're wrong and fuck aliens anyways.

 

Also read Bostrom and be like "humans are really great and should not die."

This is actually a big misconception of what the Bostrom 12 ev (which is the one almost everyone reads) says - it's a huge thing in LD, i read it in every util aff i write. Bostrom is saying that in order to resolve moral uncertainty, we should prioritize existential risks so as to preserve future value - extinction is basically a meta-constraint on any framework of ethics. He doesn't say humans are particularly good, just that any moral framework requires people to be alive to understand moral value - its a meta-ethics argument. I wouldn't go for Bostrom against wipeout, because a - they'll inevitably have indicts, b - its not super responsive, and c - Bostrom is still assuming a human-centred moral paradigm, which wipeout doesn't.


  • 0
WHO ON HELL IS THIS FUCK BAUDRILLARD? BALSAS 06 [BALSAS is an interdisciplinary journal on media culture.  Interview with Art Group BBM, “on first cyborgs, aliens and other sides of new technologies,” translated from lithiuanian http://www.balsas.cc/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=151] JCH-PF

Valentinas: We all know that Jean Baudrillard did not believe that the Gulf War did take place, as it was over-mediated and over-simulated. In fact, the Gulf War II is still not over, and Iraq became much more than just a Frankenstein laboratory for the new media, technology and “democracy” games. What can we learn from wars that do not take place, even though they cannot be finished? Are they becoming a symptom of our times as a confrontation between multiple time-lines, ideologies and technologies in a single place? Lars: Actually, it has always been the same: new wars have been better test-beds for the state of art technologies and the latest computer-controlled firearms. The World War I already was a fully mechanized war where pre-robots were fighting each other and gassing the troops. And afterwards, the winners shape the new world order. Olaf: Who on hell is Baudrillard? The one who earns money by publishing his prognoses after the things happen? What a fuck, French philosophy deals too much with luxury problems and elegantly ignores the problem itself. It’s no wonder, this is the colonizer’s mentality, you can hear it roaring in their words: they use phrases made to camouflage genocide. I went to see that Virilio’s exhibition "Ce qui arrive" at Foundation Cartier in 2003. I was smashed by that banal presentation of the evil of all kinds: again, natural catastrophes and evil done by man were exposed on the same wall, glued together with a piece of "theory". There you find it all, filed up in one row: the pure luxury of the Cartier-funded Jean Nouvel building, an artwork without any blood in its veins, and that late Christian philosophy about the techno-cataclysm being the revenge of God. Pure shit, turned into gold in the holy cellars of the modern alchemists’ museums. The artist-made video "documents" of the Manhattan towers opposed to Iraqian war pictures: that’s not Armageddon, that’s man-invented war technology to be used to subdue others. And there is always somebody who pushes the buttons, even when the button is a computer mouse some ten thousand kilometers away from the place where people die, or even if it is a civil airplanes redirected by Islamists. Everybody knows that. War technology has always been made to make killing easier. And to produce martyrs as well. Janneke: Compare Baudrillard with Henry Dunant, the founder of the International Committee of the Red Cross. Dunant was no philosopher, he was just an intelligent rich man in the late 19th century. But his ideas went far more in the direction where you should hope to find philosophers as well. He experienced war as a "randonneur": he passed by, he saw the suffering and the inhumanity of war. And he felt obliged to act. Apart from the maybe 10 days he spent on the battlefield, on the beautiful meadows in the Europeans Alps, helping wounded people to survive, as a complete medical layman he decided to do something more sustainable against these odds. He knew that his efforts couldn’t prevent war in general, but he felt that he could alter the cruelty of reality. And he succeeded in doing it. No wonder that in our days we find the most engaged people to support the TROIA projects intention in Geneva, where they are still based. And they are not only doing their necessary surgeon’s work in the field: they are as well fighting with the same energy on the diplomatic battlefield.

 

Check out the small school starter pack! https://www.cross-x....l-starter-pack/


#9 mutd

mutd

    Junior-Varsity

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts
0
Neutral

Posted 15 September 2017 - 06:44 AM

 

so if im the 1N, can i read a privatization cp and extinction good? what if they say something like: well if humans are bad, why should we privatize schools?


  • 0

#10 jbh428

jbh428

    Junior-Varsity

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 22 posts
3
Okay
  • Name:Jackson
  • School:Crossings Christian School

Posted 15 September 2017 - 07:13 AM

I run wipeout as a Kritik sometimes I use kochi and ordan as an alt. Granted this is only at Oklahoma 5a. @aquackdebater

Edited by jbh428, 15 September 2017 - 07:13 AM.

  • 0
Welcome to the learning society where children are subject to endless testing.





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users