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#1 mutd

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 07:23 PM

Hi, I was just looking over a bunch of neg offcases and wanted to know more about the args against this specific one. I've attached the file. 

 

So I understand that these cards are saying 

- aliens exist

- human extinction good because we kill off other species and stuff

- human survival=universe goes boom

 

what are the arguments you would make against this and what are some good responses? I just want to be prepared for the most common args. 

 

Thanks

Attached Files


Edited by mutd, 10 September 2017 - 07:47 PM.

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#2 mutd

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 07:24 PM

also do u think its a good idea to run this


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#3 AQuackDebater

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 07:47 PM

its not a K, its an impact turn. I haven;t opened the file but you're describing wipeout. Human extinction good because there are more aliens than humans and if humanity survives much longer we'll like destroy the universe. UTNIF put out a file on it this year called like creative impact turns or some shit. good stuff.

 

Just say a - humans dont kill everything, b - no aliens, and c - fuck aliens anyways


Edited by AQuackDebater, 10 September 2017 - 07:47 PM.

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On 11/18/2017, at 2:27 PM, Ben wrote:
> To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Policy Debate. The bullshit is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of continental philosophy, most of the arguments will go over a typical audience member's head. There's also Michigan KM's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into their cross x questions- their personal philosophy draws heavily from Philip K Dick literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depth of these taglines, to realize that they're not just edgy- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence, people who dislike Policy Debate truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humor in Morgan's existential cross x question "If you were an abstract expressionist painting, what color scheme would you use and why?", which itself is a cryptic reference to Bataille's French epic The Solar Anus. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Aaron Kall's genius unfolds itself on the livestream. What fools... How I pity them XD. And yes by the way, I DO have a Michigan KM tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies eyes only. And even they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 outround wins of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.
 

 

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#4 TheSnowball

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 08:32 PM

Also read Bostrom and be like "humans are really great and should not die."


Edited by TheSnowball, 11 September 2017 - 01:34 PM.

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Daily Evidence Card!
Exodus Files!

This cross-ex is taking too long.

Kafka 25 (Franz, Novelist, Translated by David Wyllie, "The Trial", 1925) //Snowball

K. was informed by telephone that there would be a small hearing concerning his case the following Sunday. He was made aware that these cross examinations would follow one another regularly, perhaps not every week but quite frequently. On the one hand it was in everyone’s interest to bring proceedings quickly to their conclusion, but on the other hand every aspect of the examinations had to be carried out thoroughly without lasting too long because of the associated stress. For these reasons, it had been decided to hold a series of brief examinations following on one after another. Sunday had been chosen as the day for the hearings so that K. would not be disturbed in his professional work. It was assumed that he would be in agreement with this, but if he wished for another date then, as far as possible, he would be accommodated. Cross-examinations could even be held in the night, for instance, but K. would probably not be fresh enough at that time. Anyway, as long as K. made no objection, the hearing would be left on Sundays. It was a matter of course that he would have to appear without fail, there was probably no need to point this out to him. He would be given the number of the building where he was to present himself, which was in a street in a suburb well away from the city centre which K. had never been to before.


#5 CoachMel

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 07:31 PM

This is close to a K.  You need an alternative.  The implied alternative is reject aff plan, and imbrace human extinction.  You also need a link.  Pretty obvious in this case that the link is the aff seeks to avoid human extinction.  Next is the impact which you have laid out already with the existing cards. 

 

In sum, the main args are no alternative, no reason to prefer K over plan.  No link.  

 

Good luck with this arg!  I can see teams struggling to counter this argument with solid evidence. 


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#6 seanarchy

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:43 PM

In sum, the main args are no alternative, no reason to prefer K over plan.  No link.


I think this is a bit of a misconception. Wipeout is not a K, it's a rather specific and also rather dumb impact turn. I think Patrick covered the most intuitive answers. I'll also point out, having read the evidence, that it says nowhere that aliens actually exist, just that some guy thought we were gonna find microbes 3 years ago.

There's obviously going to be a link if the plan prevents extinction, and the reason to prefer is the impact. You've literally said the plan would be actively preventing this great thing, which is human extinction. There's no need to have an alt, because the status quo will solve by killing us all. This more like a disadvantage that links to the impact than it is a K.

The answers to Wipeout are really just that the premises it takes are dumb, not that the plan doesn't link.
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#7 elmeryang00

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 05:30 AM

If people want to read this K - Just read Ligotti ... Wipeout without the ridiculous impacts (outside of Aliens)


Edited by elmeryang00, 15 September 2017 - 06:07 AM.

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#8 AQuackDebater

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 06:12 AM

I think this is a bit of a misconception. Wipeout is not a K, it's a rather specific and also rather dumb impact turn. I think Patrick covered the most intuitive answers. I'll also point out, having read the evidence, that it says nowhere that aliens actually exist, just that some guy thought we were gonna find microbes 3 years ago.

I mean the Drake equation is a bit more nuanced than that, but yeah basically the ev says "probability wise, there should be a lot of aliens in the universe.

There's obviously going to be a link if the plan prevents extinction, and the reason to prefer is the impact. You've literally said the plan would be actively preventing this great thing, which is human extinction. There's no need to have an alt, because the status quo will solve by killing us all. This more like a disadvantage that links to the impact than it is a K.
It's an impact turn, yeah. Same as like dedev, spark, or heg bad.

The answers to Wipeout are really just that the premises it takes are dumb, not that the plan doesn't link.

Yeah like I  said, just say they're wrong and fuck aliens anyways.

 

Also read Bostrom and be like "humans are really great and should not die."

This is actually a big misconception of what the Bostrom 12 ev (which is the one almost everyone reads) says - it's a huge thing in LD, i read it in every util aff i write. Bostrom is saying that in order to resolve moral uncertainty, we should prioritize existential risks so as to preserve future value - extinction is basically a meta-constraint on any framework of ethics. He doesn't say humans are particularly good, just that any moral framework requires people to be alive to understand moral value - its a meta-ethics argument. I wouldn't go for Bostrom against wipeout, because a - they'll inevitably have indicts, b - its not super responsive, and c - Bostrom is still assuming a human-centred moral paradigm, which wipeout doesn't.


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On 11/18/2017, at 2:27 PM, Ben wrote:
> To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Policy Debate. The bullshit is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of continental philosophy, most of the arguments will go over a typical audience member's head. There's also Michigan KM's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into their cross x questions- their personal philosophy draws heavily from Philip K Dick literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depth of these taglines, to realize that they're not just edgy- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence, people who dislike Policy Debate truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humor in Morgan's existential cross x question "If you were an abstract expressionist painting, what color scheme would you use and why?", which itself is a cryptic reference to Bataille's French epic The Solar Anus. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Aaron Kall's genius unfolds itself on the livestream. What fools... How I pity them XD. And yes by the way, I DO have a Michigan KM tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies eyes only. And even they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 outround wins of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.
 

 

Check out the small school starter pack! https://www.cross-x....l-starter-pack/


#9 mutd

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 06:44 AM

 

so if im the 1N, can i read a privatization cp and extinction good? what if they say something like: well if humans are bad, why should we privatize schools?


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#10 jbh428

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 07:13 AM

I run wipeout as a Kritik sometimes I use kochi and ordan as an alt. Granted this is only at Oklahoma 5a. @aquackdebater

Edited by jbh428, 15 September 2017 - 07:13 AM.

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