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PIC vs Perm do both

pic perm novice

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#1 schadha1



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  • Name:Saahil Chadha

Posted 09 January 2017 - 12:50 PM

I'm new to policy, and I'm wondering what is functionally different between a plan-inclusive counterplan made in the 1NC and a perm do both to the CP made in the 2AC. For example, if the Aff plan is arguing for the plan to be enacted by the federal government and the CP is that it should be enacted by the private sector, then, if the Aff runs a perm do both in the 2AC, how would that be different from a PIC in the 1NC that says that both the private sector and federal government should enact it?


I guess I'm asking what makes a PIC competitive. 

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#2 NickDB8


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Posted 09 January 2017 - 01:14 PM

"If it isn't competing, it's probably cheating."


There are different kinds of PICs, each with a different reason why it competes.

Word PICs - One word you used in the 1AC is bad. We should do the aff without that word. Competes because 1. Any perm ends up being "Perm - Do the CP" which doesn't test competition, and 2. It would be severance.


Agent PICs - Your aff should be done by somebody else. It usually has an external net benefit, ie, it avoids the DA the plan links to, thus, any perm would link to the DA.

Plan Plus PICs - Let's do your aff, plus something else. These don't compete.

Plan Minus PICs - Let's do your plan, minus one part of it. These compete because you would sever out of the 1AC by doing both (see Word PICs).



The theory and perm debates get messy, but it's an uphill battle for the neg to win those. Just remember, "If it isn't mutually exclusive, it's probably abusive".

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#3 nathan_debate


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Posted 09 January 2017 - 03:05 PM

Realize the permutation ends up being PIC + Your aff, which probably links to disads to your agent.


Your permutation still links to the disads.


So unless you are turning the disads--you are likely losing.


More process based pics are a little different and more nuanced.  Also, this is when its critical to clear up what the counterplan links to and doesn't link to in the cross ex.

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