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aallsup

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About aallsup

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  • Birthday 06/30/1989

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  • Name
    Andrew Allsup
  • School
    Hutchinson/UMKC
  1. I know that i'm a little late on this but if anyone needs a judge I'm available to do so. email(s): aallsup<at>gmail.com and apapk4<at>umkc.edu aim: androolall or just PM me
  2. Also looking to judge at this tournament email/gtalk: aallsup<at>gmail.com or apapk4<at>umkc.edu aim: androolall
  3. I'll echo Alex's response; if I'm not at a tournament I would love to judge.
  4. Heh, good luck getting him to respond if you are a student. I am convinced that one of two possibilities are true when a student emails Reg Romaine... 1. He ignores (possibly laughs at) them and goes about his day or 2. KSHSAA has an incredibly awesome database which stores every student's name in it (as well as any email address they happen to create) and blocks their emails from ever reaching their recipient. Either way, the point I'm trying to make is that through my experience, even when you send a very polite and well versed email to reg romaine, he will not respond to you if you are a student. Last year I sent him well over fifty emails and never once received a reply. For all you haters, I didn't send them all at once either, I started out sending one a week and then after that didn't work I sent one every few days. Never onces did he respond. Good luck getting him to listen to you.
  5. aallsup

    TOC Ruling

    Lol, who really cares... its not in Kansas so it can't be any good.
  6. aallsup

    TOC Ruling

    This is absurd, I can't believe the lack of substantive debate this is coming out of this discussion. I took your advice and did my research and followed sound lines of logic and now you are avoiding the core of this discussion by substituting humor for substance. This is an issue that I take seriously, mocking me and those who share my sentiments doesn't bring resolve. Lets go through what you have to say here... This is a mischaracterization of my (and Trevor's) response to this situation. We have carefully consider both of the stances on this issue. In fact we have discussed this many times with each other as well as individuals in this state and outside of it. It seems to me that the resounding consensus (maybe biased) is that the fault lies on KSHSAA. I will say this once again, because you seem to not be reading into the substance of my argument. There has yet to be a single justification as to why one state requiring NASSP approval (you have yet to show me another state that requires it) for participation in the ToC proves that it is uniquely beneficial for the debaters. This means one of two things; either Kansas is right and 49 states are wrong, or the majority of the states are right and Kansas is wrong. I still have heard no compelling argument from you or your peers. I don't care if you are mocking me. I think you are making yourself look bad when all you have is humor and no substance. You are taking my arguments to illogical extremes to try and prove my stance wrong in an improbable hypothetical world. The closest that I have come is by characterizing KSHSAA as fascist... which the more and more I see you (and to be fair, others) bowing down to their rules and letting them legislate the activity for us, I'm beginning to see my arguments proven. I mean, the only ammunition you have against me is baseless humor and the ever so predictable, "all your arguments are bad, don't vote for them" cliche that neither proves me wrong or makes you look intelligent. I didn't think of that. I'll admit to my folly. In fact, I will go a step further. I will send JW an email tonight and ask for an official rational for not being part of the NASSP. Judging by his previous diligence in returning my emails, I'm sure he will be a lot more hospitable to me than Reg Romaine has been... This is misdirecting the central question of this debate. The real question that has to be answer first, in the order of things, is why should the ToC have to functionally change the way in which the tournament is ran and the date that it is held in order to comply with literally ONE state that has a problem with it. This is yet another short-coming on your part Mr. Volen. I have yet to hear why I would learn more in the two or three days that I would be in class than I would at a once in a lifetime tournament against some of the best debaters in the country. Even if I would miss something in class, why couldn't I learn it over a lunch period or with a few visits after school to meet with my teacher? If all else fails, why couldn't I pay someone to tutor me for the classes that I missed? My arguments remains, the education of the classroom can be replicated (it is not unique in time and space), however the ToC happens once (once in a lifetime for some students) a year and is unique education in and of itself. Sure, standards are good, but there is a point in which standards can go too far (i.e. when they don't allow for exceptions to the rules to accommodate the students... you know to help the students... what the organization is supposed to be there for...). I don't know about some of those states but I'm pretty sure there are some teams from Michigan in the ToC. I am good friends with a few debaters from Idaho that, if they would have qualified, would have been able to attend the ToC easily. I have also debated a team from Hawaii at a bid tournament that was very good. As for the other states I don't know. I believe that, in debate terms, it would be your burden of proof to show me another state that doesn't allow students to go to the ToC because they lack NASSP approval... I mean why would it be my burden to find and provide information that would throw me through a loop... This is the ignorant/apathetic mood that will never allow anything to change. As long as students are afraid to voice their opinion in forums such as this, or talk to their coach about debating on the national circuit for fear of the political repercussions they would face, this community will never realize its full potential. As long as the ideology of a single organization is the end-all-say-all for the way debate should function in this state, students (such as myself and Trevor) will be subjugated. Like I said before, we didn't have a single person on our side, up to and including our own coach. No debater should have to go through what we had to go to just to challenge themselves a little bit more. These rules are arbitrary and there are vindictive coaches in this state that seek to keep these policies (I have the emails and pm's to prove it!). I'm not asking for students to be allowed to do whatever they want. I have been a firm advocate of the national circuit being treated as a privilege and not a right. I have also been an advocate that no school should be responsible for paying any more money than what they would pay for a team to go to a normal Kansas tournament for teams that want to travel the national circuit. This means that teams that aspire to compete on the national circuit need to fund raise or come up with the money on their own. That way no squad is has an undue burden forced upon them and the goals of the individual don't ruin the goals of the group. Also, please stop perpetuating these fear tactics that "debate will die like it has in every other state" line, because it still has no substance. If anything, my advocacy will only make this community more diverse and enlightening. It will breed better debaters and better critics in the future which can only help this state. However, that means learning new styles of debate and how to answer them as well. It takes work but that work is the core of education in this activity. Without the continual flow of new idea's and new styles knowledge becomes inbred and will eventually implode itself when faced with difference. This is not an issue of "violating any rule they want" its advocating the removal of rules that are unjustified and subjugate the students that aspire a different style of debate on the national circuit. KSHSAA is not supposed to be there for "some" or the "majority" of the students interests. It is there for ALL of the students interests, and right now it is not fulfilling its goals. That is why an advocacy of students and coaches standing in solidarity with one and other is necessary to bring about this change. I'm not asking you to stand with me (hopefully us) but I would ask that if you respond you attack the substance of my arguments and not use broad generalizations. Academic honesty and diligence is always a plus...
  7. aallsup

    TOC Ruling

    If you would have read my other post you would have noted that I have tried to confront KSHSAA about it. They don't return my emails. I have been a lot more selective in the language that I use with them, and I would consider my emails to be neutral on the subject. I have simply requested a rational. Before, I asked for a chance to plead our case. Whereas the school officials get in contact with Mr. Romaine whenever they want, he still hasn't answered a single email of mine. You also must not have noticed that I have already admitted that I am defeated in this instance. There is no way that I can go to the ToC this year and I understand that. What I am worried about is how this state (its coaches and activities organization) with treat those with the same drive as both Trevor and I and the SME team that aspired to compete on the national circuit and at the ToC in years to come. I have already received numerous emails and pm's from debaters in Kansas that are too afraid to post on this forum for fear of repercussion from their coaches and other coaches. Why do I post on this forum? Because I hope that others, even those who have no aspirations to debate on the national circuit, will take initiative to write KSHSAA, to call them, and appeal to their coaches to put pressure on this faceless organization to make some changes. I believe that what I experienced on the national circuit this year was unique and fulfilling. I don't want any student to be denied that opportunity because of arbitrary rules and vindictive coaches. I don't want students essentially be forced to quit their squad because they have a coach that won't support them in the goals they wish to achieve. This is beyond me, this is for the benefit of debate in this state. My goal is only to make this activity that I absolutely love and enjoy better for those who come after me. Maybe others can see that and try to make a difference in whatever way they can.
  8. aallsup

    TOC Ruling

    Now you are just being a jackass. You're obviously taking my arguments to the extreme, and they don't reflect what I was saying at all. In fact, I would argue that it is a desperate attempt to cover up your short comings with baseless humor. I believe tshuman pointed out a couple of other reason that could be at the core of the ToC's decision to not become part of the NASSP. I also posted a link with all of the guidelines that would have to be followed, which amounts to six pages. In the end, I don't know what all of their objects to it are, but I do know that there must be a reason why JW doesn't want to sign on. He has been actively trying to get Kansas schools involved in national circuit debate and something like this wouldn't be shoved of as unimportant on his part. My argument was never to "drop out of school." Although I only gave my last post a cursory glance, I'm pretty sure that I never said or advocated that. So much for academic honesty on your part, aren't you a debate coach? Aren't you supposed to be teaching students how to follow sound lines of logic? Seems to me that you failed miserably at that one. To clarify; my argument is that I have learned more in debate than I would have in the 1 or 2 school days that I would have to miss for being at a tournament. Debate tournaments are each a unique experience because of the inherent nature of unpredictability in what arguments you may come into contact with. Whereas the class periods and information that you miss at school can be replicated, debate rounds cannot be replicated in the same fashion twice. The ToC would have only happened once for me, my science class that I missed can be taught again over a lunch period or after school. So I'll say this; don't be a fool, stay in school. Since if you aren't enrolled in a school, you can't debate at these tournaments. I'll take a page from Volen's book. If you think he is persuasive, take a look at his argument more closely and see where it will take you. If you drop out of school then you have no chance of entering tournaments and you will never garner the chance to experience the education that debate has to offer. As for the ToC denying us entrance because we lack school affiliation. This argument makes sense after JW explained it to myself and a few other coaches. Its an issue of liability. If we go unaffiliated then he is liable for us. He made it clear that an issue arose a few years ago where he let a team in without having the paper work signed and for whatever reason he almost got sued. For that reason the University of Kentucky will not let him have any teams without the proper paper work filled out enter. That seems fair to me. However, what doesn't seem fair is an activities organization that previously allowed students to go to the ToC to 1/ enter a tournaments because it isn't approved by the NASSP and 2/ change the rules on them mid-season. The way that I see it is that JW has bent over backwards to try and get Kansas teams involved in the ToC. I know for a fact that he put a lot of effort in to trying to negotiate a way for us to come after I sent him an email about the situation. On the other hand, KSHSAA has done nothing on our behalf and, unlike JW, refused to answer my emails. I wonder who is seeming more anti-educational, the ToC or KSHSAA... I don't see how requiring teams to work hard to qualify to a national tournament is anti-education either. If you want to debate against the best then you have to prove yourself to be one of the best by qualifying. This means that you work hard researching and practicing for each of the bid tournaments (which will increase the education value of the exponentially). Sure, teams are denied entrance to the tournament because they didn't qualify. This just makes the competition tighter and the education greater for the participants. At worst, those who do get to go gain a better and more fulfilling educational experience. So for those who want change, stand up and make yourself be heard. Pressure KSHSAA to provide an official rational for their decision. Make them prove why those few days of school you would miss are uniquely more educational than attending such caliber of a debate tournament. Make KSHSAA prove why literally every other state is wrong for letting kids go to the ToC without NASSP approval and why Kansas is right. Make them prove that this exclusion of teams from the ToC makes Kansas a uniquely better state for the education of its students. Because as of right now, i don't see any answers to this. You can chose to take a stand or play the ignorance/apathy card that Mr. Volen would like for you to do. Either way it doesn't affect me, but it does affect you and your peers. This is an opportunity to shape debate to be the way YOU want it to be, not to blindly follow what a faceless organization tells you it should be. Why is being part of the system that subjugates its own so popular. Your peers have been denied an opportunity of a life time, doesn't that not piss anyone off? It should, and coaches should stand in solidarity with these students. Through all that Trevor and I have gone through we never once had a coach stand by us in support. We received emails telling us not to go on the national circuit. We had other tell us that we were just going to fail. We had some tell us that we will never learn anything from national circuit but we will know everything we needed to from Kansas debate. We have proven all of those people wrong. Hopefully students will see what has happened to us, and recognize that we are right in situation. Then we can take back this activity for its participants and make it what it should be. Then this activity can realize its full potential in this state.
  9. aallsup

    TOC Ruling

    By what you are saying, Kansas should have the best education in the nation. I mean, considering how we are the only state (at least that I know of, correct me if I'm wrong) that doesn't allow students to go to the ToC because we are afraid of it hurting our education due to the date it takes place. I don't know about you, but the educational benefits of debate have far outweighed that of any class that I have sat in. The unpredictable nature of debate itself forces us to come into contact with a multiplicity of different issues and ideas whereas what is learned in the classroom is part of a standard curriculum that can be taught and re-taught with ease. I can pick up my assignments from a teacher, and possibly have that teacher explain the details of them. I can't however, ever attend the Tournament of Champions again. I don't understand how it is justifiable to say that class time has always already trumped round time in terms of educational benefits. This is the problem, you (and to be fair, others) keep saying that the reason KSHSAA and the NASSP won't approve this tournament is education. However, there is no reason why the time in said classes is uniquely more beneficial. Nor is there a consideration that class time can be made up, whereas this specific tournament can't be. This would seem to be an awesome exception to the norm. However, this isn't taken into consideration, at least that I know of. In fact you go on to say that my attempts to argue against this is an "exercise in futility." This is the core of the problem, individuals who outright refuse to look into the fine details of this situation that sits right in front of them. Students are being excluded (yes, by their activities association) from attending their last and most important tournament of their high school careers. This is a call for concern, something that needs to be more closely examined. When every other state can allow students to go to this tournament except Kansas it means one of two things; either Kansas is right and forty nine states are wrong OR the majority is correct and Kansas is wrong. I would say that the standard of proof for winning any argument that Kansas is right would be to show me that our education is uniquely superior to that of all other forty nine states because of this rule. If not, then KSHSAA needs to admit to its failure, apologize to those whom it kept from realizing their dreams, and make sure the future is brighter for those that what to attend this tournament int he future. So, this is not simply a "justifiable standard" that we must "work with the TOC to comply with." What needs to be understood is that there are exceptions to rules that must be taken into consideration. You are correct in saying that national circuit tournaments and the ToC make you miss more school. But it didn't keep me from getting a 4.0 GPA. I learned more about debate and more about the issues addressed by the resolution on the national circuit than I did at any local tournament. This year (minus this exclusion from the ToC by KSHSAA) was the most educationally beneficial experience I have had in a school as of yet. So don't feed me lines about how KSHSAA is looking out for the students and their education when it may be their aim but they accomplish everything but that goal.
  10. aallsup

    TOC Ruling

    I want this to get worked out as much as the next person. I'm hoping that, as Rubaie has stated, whoever takes over running the ToC can help come to a compromise about this situation. Although I think it is extremely unfair that we were not able to attend the ToC after all that Trevor and I went through this year (a hostile coach and school, quitting our squad, numerous emails to tournament directors to get independent status, raising money to pay for tournaments, etc.) I recognize that there is no way for us to go at all now. What I fear is that this state will continue to harbor hostility and disinterest towards the national circuit and those students that want to go to it's tournaments in the future. I believe that if nearly every other state (I don't know of any who haven't) can find a way to allow students to go to the ToC without NASSP approval, then there is no reason why the Kansas State High School Activities Organization can't. Any way that you look at it, we were cheated out of both our last and most important tournament of our high school careers. This is something that should anger this community. Whether you like the students expressing their sentiments or not shouldn't matter. There are students in this community who have lost literally a once in a lifetime opportunity (given the ToC isn't "once in a lifetime" for everyone, it was for Trevor and I) to compete at and represent our state. Although I don't think the ToC is under any obligation to budge for literally one state in our nation, it may be the only way to resolve this. However, it is narcissistic to believe that the metaphorical ball is only in the ToC's court. KSHSAA is going to have to budge, they are going to have to recognize that these policies that they have made and sustained are detrimental to the development of debaters that aspire to achieve higher goals than the norm. If the goal of KSHSAA is to look out for the best interests of the students by promoting fairness and competitive equity so as to bolster the educational value of tournaments, then I don't understand why small disagreements over how this tournament is run (distance, start time, end time, awards, etc.) stifles this. Unless a unique loss of fairness and education is proven on part of KSHSAA, I don't understand why students shouldn't be able to attend. Just saying "they didn't sign the papers" isn't enough. Why is signing the papers unique to fulfilling KSHSAA's mission and their standards? Why is a refusal to sign and abide by the NASSP's rules and regulations so detrimental to education? If it can be proven to hurt the development of debaters, does that negative outweigh the multiplicity of ways that this tournament can help debaters? Unfortunately I don't think that these questions have been adequately taken into consideration by the activities association or coaches and students alike. If they have, I see no proof of it. Furthermore, I don't see KSHSAA trying to make its case to the students being denied their shot at the ToC. I have not received an explanation nor an apology for what they have done to me. Maybe that is too much to expect, but I don't think its too much to ask of Reg Romaine to email me back after I have inquired about this situation multiple times. My hope is that something can be done about this so future students won't be denied this opportunity, but for now I go back to hitting the refresh button on my browser waiting for Mr. Romaine to email me back...
  11. aallsup

    TOC Ruling

    Okay, I'm going to call shenanigans here. The denial of any student from attending a tournament of such caliber as the Tournament of Champions is a disgrace. It is, whether Mr. Volen accepts it or not, an attempt to legislate what tournaments (and alternatively what styles of debate) are acceptable for high school students. Maybe I have just been fed a bunch of rumors, but I have heard from a number of individuals that their coaches have taken time to contact KSHSAA (specifically Reg Romaine) and express their disgust for the ToC and the ability of students to both attend bid tournaments and go to the national tournament. I have no way to prove or disprove this but the fact that these allegations are not isolated but in fact come from all over the state is ridiculous. Now, I am appalled at what I perceive to be nothing short of a verbal attack from Mr. Volen. I fear that too many in this state share his same apathy and ignorance towards the situation. So lets clear some things up According to Mr. Volen First of all, it is not "the high school principles association." The organization being referred to is the National Association of Secondary School Principles. Now, Mr. Volen (and I'm sure the KSHSAA elite) would like you to believe that this signing these papers to become sanctioned by the NASSP would be a neutral act. In fact, Mr. Volen says clearly Whether or not KSHSAA sent JW the papers or not is not the question that needs to be addressed. It is the content of those papers that JW would have to abide by that is the problem. These guidelines would functionally change the way that the tournament is run. In other words, it would put a bunch of extra regulations on the tournament that aren't necessary... regulations that could in fact make the tournament less enjoyable. Now you may think to yourself, these regulations can't be all that bad. This is just Andrew over-exaggerating like he did in that there last thread that he started where he was trashing Kansas debate before. However, this is not the case. KSHSAA (and apparently Mr. Volen) would have you believe that signing these papers is easier done than spoken about, but then they don't tell you about the six page .pdf file available on the internet that contains all of these rules and regulations. Time for a history lesson, In, what I assume by the date on the web page, 2003 the NASSP created the NASSP National Committee on Student Contests and Activities. This committee came up with a slew of rules and guidelines that would have to be followed by activities (such as debate) if the were to be approved by the NASSP. Here is the link http://www.nasc.us/s_nasc/bin.asp?CID=259&DID=56620&DOC=FILE.PDF Wow, thats a lot of extra regulations that literally ONE state in all the nation is saying the ToC has to abide by for their students to participate. So I'm sorry Mr. Volen, but when you say that its the ToC's fault because they lack the "due diligence" to sign the papers that "EVERYONE ELSE HAS" (no emphasis added) is out of line. Now, on to your final comment you say I hope that in the future coaches will look at my researching abilities and my debate skills if they consider to hire me. The views I express about KSHSAA and this state express none but my own and they do not reflect that of anyone or anything else. Contrary to what you think, I have done research, I have applied logic, and I do deserve to show emotion in this situation. This was my last year of high school debate. I fulfilled all of my previous goals, when I was a novice I was allowed to go to the novice state tournament. When I was a sophomore I missed breaking on opp. speaks to the go round for CFL and speaker points at NFL. When I was a junior I made it in to DCI and I qualified for CFL. When I was a senior I got into Zag Scholars and I qualified for the ToC. Since I was a sophomore, and I learned about the possibilities and unique opportunities that this activity contained I had the goal of going to the ToC and competing at it. Nothing else, not DCI, CFL, or being accepted to Zag could come close to that goal. I was ecstatic when I qualified, but the only greater feeling could be actually competing in the ToC. Because of some "ridiculous" and indeed "fascist" rules by an activities organization (strongly influenced by the coaches in this state) I am now not allowed to go. For you to tell me that I should not feel any emotion about this is appalling. You say to instead "look for solvency to the harms" but I have tried to contact Reg more times than I can count and he has not once had the courtesy to email me back. Some things need to be changed in this state. I quite my squad and had to pay a lot of money to go to these tournaments, only to be denied what would be the greatest moment of my high school debate career. Everyone should see that there is something wrong with this picture. No student should be denied these opportunities... especially seniors for whom this would be the last and biggest tournament of their high school career. Thanks.
  12. aallsup

    TOC Ruling

    Due to its fascist desire for control over Kansas students, the Kansas State High School Activities Association has prevented all Kansas teams (affiliated and non-affiliated with schools) from attending the Tournament of Champions indefnitely. This marks yet another short-coming of this flawed organization that has sought to define what is and is not good debate. Students from Kansas have previously attended the Tournament of Champions and it did not hurt Kansas debate in the way this community (its coaches and students alike) have claimed that it would. However, the new policies implemented by the Kansas State High School Activities Association, that keep students from attending the Tournament of Champions, will hurt the the activity and its participants in this state by destroying opportunities and dreams. Unlike before, this time there are victims.
  13. I know that this has been done before on the Kansas forum. Where is everyone planning on going to college, what are you majoring in, and are you going to debate? I'll start Name: Andrew Allsup School: UMKC Double Major: Political Science and Communications Debating: Yes
  14. Send Glen an email and ask him. Last year when I had questions he was very good at getting back to me within a couple of days with the answers. My intuition would be that you wouldn't be charged extra for it, but i can't say for sure. Either way it is worth it, I went to scholars last year and I believe that what I learned in that lab is the fundamental reason why I am going to the TOC this year.
  15. Andrew Allsup Hutchinson High School Debating for UMKC
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