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About 6256309

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  1. I was thinking about it, but it turns out neither tournament falls on the dates I'll be in Denver. Oh well. Thanks for replying anyway Greg.
  2. Anyone know the dates for these tournaments? (chsaa calendar is down)
  3. Anyone know results? This was one of my favorite tournaments.. way back in the day.
  4. OMG you guys are SO funny. cutting edge of internet humor, right here.
  5. Well, as a co-writer of the topic, I just like to know who talks shit so I can vote them down and give them 20 speaker points when I judge them. p.s. I'm kidding, if you couldn't tell. Just bustin' yo balls a bit.
  6. oh that's not in doubt. huge fucking d-bag.
  7. Who are you? Did you even debate this year?
  8. Thanks for proving my point, pal. Stay classy.
  9. Just wanted to quickly chime in to say I agree with Brane_Kandy (sorry, I don't know your real name or anything). Irrespective of whether the decision made by the NFL was a good one (a judgment I cannot make without more information), I think anyone lashing out at Peters either on the forum explicitly or via rep needs to back up, especially since she was just merely offering to clarify how the decision was made. But even assuming that she had been privy to the discussions, I'm pretty sure that the responses given are not the optimal way to go about discussing the matter. Sheesh, you high schoolers get worse every day.
  10. 6256309

    Survivial of CX

    I spoke on this issue at length in my thread, and have not much to add. Additionally, since I have given up on CO, I have no desire to issue another frustrated declamation. However, and I mean this with all due respect- a camp, even assuming it somehow got underway, would not solve the problem. At risk of redundancy, I won't elaborate much more, except to reiterate that the more fundamental problem is that of a) coaches utter unwillingness to teach/support debate and abandoning it in favor of PF/LD, lack of influx of new coaches that have recent NDT experience/little NDT or TOC influence in the region, and finally c) pompous attitude of existing HS debaters towards the (now extinct) pool of lay judging. A and C feed off each other and compound the problem, although I think A is the bigger factor. It wouldn't even be an issue if B also didn't exist. However, it does. I guess it's somewhat therapeutic to do this lamenting dance every now and then (hell, I spawned a thread in this vein a couple topics down), but ultimately I feel this thread is basically an epitaph.
  11. Taurean! dude, good to hear from you! whatcha been up to? Anyway, I'm glad you got/enjoyed the vlad-camp joke.. even if it was 2 years after I made it, lol
  12. Bumping... have a judging question that hopefully someone (peters?) can answer. There's a possibility I'll be in Denver that weekend, and I'd like to judge. But, despite being a former state semi-finalist and college debate topic co-author (among other "quals" I think I have), I'm worried I'll be turned away because I don't have a CHSAA certification or secret membership card or something of that nature. Anyone know what the procedure for judging at state is?
  13. Sandy: I know my post came off as pretty harsh. And I was certainly generalizing; obviously there are a great number of coaches I do not include in the group I am discussing, including yourself and my former HS coach. The reason I'm as hard-headed about this as I am, is because ultimately coaches are in the best position to either help or harm the activity. Bad students come and go. Arrogant students that alienate lay judges and frustrate novice teams come and go as well. But when a coach decides to axe the debate event and just teach PF/LD... well, that has ramifications for not only years down the road, but for multiple other programs as well. Pretty soon, even other coaches that wanted to field debate teams cannot get any competition because too many teams quit. Then you have whole regions of the state that just don't have debate at all anymore... in fact, now many regions of CO outside of denver. Look, I understand the pressures of being a teacher on top of a coach, and coaches are underappreciated and absolutely underpaid for the efforts they put into debate. What I don't understand is why coaches are leaving the debate event in droves, and that is in large part why I began this thread- to understand this point. We can blame students all day... and this is why I was clear in my original and subsequent posts to criticise the practice of many arrogant debaters in the state. I certainly don't think students hands are "clean" in this matter. But when it's all said and done, there is only so much students can do to deter debate participation. The buck stops with the coaches when they decide to stop teaching debate. Perhaps debate truly is "broken," I don't know. And there are certainly the occasional issues when debate reveals its quirks and becomes less accessible to the public at large. But what I was saying, is this is the exception, not the rule- especially in CO. And even the more technical debate is often the better debate... this is why I keep repeating anecdotes about how I've judged and debated better case debate, on the whole, in college rather than HS. This is why I think most coaches just have a perception of debate as "broken," and whether its true or not, coaches are fine with accepting the perception as truth and leaving the event. I speak the way I do about coaches, because most of them do not respond rationally, the way you have. When I have brought this discussion up with coaches in the past, most usually immediately dismiss debate, with an air of vindictiveness that I don't get. This is why, in my original post, I talked about how I was rudely brushed off by a coach when I was judging NFL nats a couple years ago. Back then, to him, I was an uppity college kid, and debate was "bad." And that was the end of it. He didn't want to hear about what I had gotten out of debate or anything else. And this is a coach who taught debate for decades and fled the event for PF. I feel like it doesn't matter where I am in life now to him, and other coaches like him... whether I'm years out of college, a practicing attorney or not, I'll always just be viewed as associated with the NDT and a cohort of anti-intellectual sophists. It was like I was a member of the cancer spreading throughout debate... part of the problem. Well never mind the fact that I would have no problem judging two slower, stock issues teams. Hell, I understand that most kids in CO haven't gone to camp or spent their free time chatting with NDT theory hacks. I don't expect a level of debate up to the NDT, and I think most younger judges would be with me in this regard. If I'm in the back of the room... yes, sometimes teams will decide to amp up the speed or read more complex arguments, which I'm ok with. Sometimes they'll do it even if they're facing a novice team they know will not understand what's going on. Now that, indeed, I'm willing to admit is a problem. But what do we have to gain here when coaches begin blaming debate itself, or as this coach seemed to imply, that I'm part of the problem. It seems to me a more proactive approach would be to teach these teams how to deal with situations like this, than to just throw up their arms and declare debate "ain't worth saving." This experience was not a unique one to me. Too many coaches I talked to over the years discuss debate in a bitter, almost vindictive tone. This is not helpful or conducive to compromise. I understand their frustrations, but who loses out here? The students. They are depraved of an intellectual opportunity of which there is no equal. I have less to say about coaches that just don't understand debate or just coached IEs until PF came along... it was probably a little bit too much to say these coaches are lazy. However, I still cannot understand why they would put effort into fielding out several LD/PF teams, and not debate. Perhaps it does just make more sense to them, and the time trade-off isn't worth it, or at least not perceived as worth it. I think this is a shame, since debate is objectively more educational, intense, intellectual, and rewarding than LD or PF. I would rather field 3-4 debate teams and nothing else (i.e. no IEs, LD/PF) than a full slate of IEs, LD/PF and no debate. But if coaches do not agree, well then.. I guess it is what it is. They ultimately make decisions about their curriculum, and if this is the decision they have settled on, well then- so be it. phil rappmund
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