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Bushcheatedin2000

god help me should I lose the coin toss

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I'm a novice in the National Forensics league this months topic in policy is

"Outsourcing jobs helps the U.S. economy" If me and partner lose the coin toss we're basically screwed unless we do something to the coin we use or get evidance that says outsourcing DOES help our economy so do you have any suggestions on where I should go?

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First of all, that's the public forum topic for December. This month's is 'Resolved: The United States government should allow Americans to purchase prescription drugs from other countries.'

 

Secondly, get the rez right, it's: "Resolved: Corporate offshoring aids in the economic development of the United States."

 

Thirdly, wrong website. Most of us hate public forum/ted turner debate.

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Outsourcing is what decreases the espense of every day items. As long as wages increase or stay the same, then outsourcing is fundamentally a good thing.

 

Its only bad when you are replacing the lost jobs with lower paying, less secure jobs which then lowers the standard of living across the board.

 

Outsourcing has been done for centuries to different degrees. If there were any significant negative impacts to outsourcing, we'd have already seen them. The fact that nations can continue to grow economically, increasing GDP year after year despite massive outsourcing attempts (what manufacturing does the US have anymore? :confused: )... is proof that outsourcing in a vacuum is not a red entry on the national economic balancesheet.

 

If you want to talk more on this... let me know... peace

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Outsourcing is what decreases the espense of every day items. As long as wages increase or stay the same, then outsourcing is fundamentally a good thing.

If your standard is "buy more shit."

 

Its only bad when you are replacing the lost jobs with lower paying, less secure jobs which then lowers the standard of living across the board.

Which is typically what happens when you outsource manufacturing jobs.

 

Outsourcing has been done for centuries to different degrees.

That is true - if by "different degrees" you mean "incredibly small degrees up until the last 58 years, which then doesn't even compare with the last 12 years." So if there were "any significant negative impacts", then we would be seeing them just recently, yes. ie. The vulnerability of the US economy, considering how incredibly much we rely on other nations (and their governments' stability), and the lowering of the standard of living when the workers are forced to take lower-paying service-oriented jobs.

 

The fact that nations can continue to grow economically, increasing GDP year after year despite massive outsourcing attempts (what manufacturing does the US have anymore? :confused: )... is proof that outsourcing in a vacuum is not a red entry on the national economic balancesheet.

If your only standard for a country's economic performance is "economic growth." Which is certainly not true. Like I said: Vulnerability of the US economy to foreign interests - would you like an empirical example? How about the entire fucking Middle East? No? How about the United Fruit Company in Guatemala? No? Okay, we'll stick with an example that specifically relates to our getting-ourselves-in-a-boatload-of-shit when we outsource manufacturing jobs: Rubber plants in South Vietnam.

 

And as for examples as to workers' lowering standards of living: well, how about the last 4 years? Including the time that we were in an "economic recovery."

 

Edit: But yes, Ankur's post would be a typically good aff on the topic.

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Actually Paul, I am surprised you didnt do your homework on this one. The proportion of jobs lost in the past decade to outsourcing compared to the total employment figure, is far lower than in previous decades. Technological unemployment was a VERY big thing in the post-Depression to late 80's.

 

And its characteristically untrue that outsourcing forces Americans to accept lower paying jobs. That is a new phenomenon and it stems back to what I have been ranting about on this website for years: lack of innovation.

 

The reason america stayed ahead of the competition over the past hundred years is because we "invented" everything which has revolutionized the world. We pioneered everything from the lightbulb to the transistor to flight. Whenever we needed a new invention, we came up with one that rewrote the history books. Cotton gins, peanut recycling of soil (washington carver), the electric generator (dynamo), so on and so on... We progressed and then shipped off the designs to other countries to produce cheaper. Televisions, yep, we pioneered them, and now we make none of them.

 

Lack of innovation is killing us. We commit less and less percentages of our GDP to research and development year over year. Furthermore, many of our efforts are focused on reinventing the wheel instead of inventing the square...

 

For decades, we replaced XYZ outsourced jobs with higher paying jobs due to innovation. Now thats not happening. Again, we blame this on conservative republican america who believes things like stem cell research, nasa funding, and clean energy technologies are tools of the DEVIL!

 

I wholeheartedly agree about the "security" concerns of depending on other nations. Some estimates I overheard in other conversations say that short of a war with all of east Asia, it would take 30 years for the US to return to the manufacturing capabilities of 1945.

 

But you make some errors in examples:

Middle East - easily solved by my domestic version of the Spratlys 1ac. Too bad we have George "Black Gold" Bush in office...

Banana Republics - we have the agricultural capabilities, we just sit on it because its cheaper to import. At most it would take 1 year to retool the fields to produce the fruit or most any farm product. Any "banana embargo" imposed on the US by Guatemala would cripple Guatemala and merely be an annoyance to the US.

Rubber - dont know this one... care to go into detail?

 

Outsourcing isnt bad. Its the new global version of mass production lines... to take a metaphor out of manufacturing theory.

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It's a very arguable topic.

 

As Ankur said, the law of comparative advantage dictates that a country should produce only the products that it is compartatively good at producing, while allowing other countries to do the same. This (according to a very large number of economists - just look at your local library for an overview of macroeconomics from the last 60 years or so) creates a maximal number of jobs and keeps wages as high as possible. Even more importantly, it reliably keeps down costs and keeps the economy efficient.

 

The threat to national security is inevitable. Look at the Middle East: even assuming that we could get the amount of oil out of ANWR that Bush and his friends project, we wouldn't even put a dent in our oil consumption and would still be wholly reliant on the middle east. In any case, as the United States is essentially the cornerstone of the world economy (and just a massive hegemon in general) and it's extremely unlikely that any country would try to cross us at this juncture by, say, denying us oil. If they did, with Bush as president, we'd bomb them, or sanction them or something.

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I'm a novice in the National Forensics league this months topic in policy is

"Outsourcing jobs helps the U.S. economy" If me and partner lose the coin toss we're basically screwed unless we do something to the coin we use or get evidance that says outsourcing DOES help our economy so do you have any suggestions on where I should go?

Well, it's true. Outsourcing IS good for the economy. See the following articles. You may find the third most useful for debate purposes, but I recommend you at least skim the first one. It is particularly good.

 

The Outsourcing Bogeyman

 

Trivial Outsourcing Pursuits

 

Myths and Realities: The False Crisis of Outsourcing

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i would go for heads... for a few reasons (not limited to coin tosses)...
i think i'm sensing some sexual undertones in that post..... you dirty naughty girl, you.

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here's another one for you on outsourcing...

 

for every dollar lost in outsourcing to india, how much value is returned to the US?

 

answer: 1.13

 

source: finance.yahoo.com

 

 

Each dollar that a US company spends on outsourcing a service job to India ADVERTISEMENT

 

 

generates an estimated 1.13 USD in net value for the US, according to a recent study in the current edition of the Milken Institute Review (reg. req'd). The study also estimated that India gains 0.33 USD in net value from local wages, profits earned by local outsourcing companies and their suppliers, and taxes collected from all the local companies involved in the operation.

The net value generated by the outsourcing is returned to the US through several different channels. The outsourcing company can immediately recognize cost savings through lower wages, and many companies have seen additional cost savings from efficiency gains. US consumers benefit from the resulting lower prices. Outsourcing can also boost US exports to India, as the company builds the infrastructure to support the outsourced jobs. The Milken Institute points out, "A call center in Bangalore is likely to be filled with HP computers, Microsoft software and telephones from Lucent, and to be audited by PriceWaterHouseCoopers." The newly employed workers also have more money to spend on goods imported from the US. In 2003 the US exported 5b USD to India, an increase of 1.3b USD from the 2000 total.

 

While the outsourcing of jobs has become a hot-button issue for politicians and business leaders alike, a new study indicates that the actual impact on US workers is not as drastic as some may believe. A report by Lori Kletzer, an economist at the University of California Santa Cruz, studied the impact on American workers of non-manufacturing job loss due to free trade. Professor Kletzer found that between 1979 and 1999, 69% of US workers who lost a non-manufacturing job due to free trade found a new job within one year with an average salary equal to 96% of their prior job.

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Actually, I personally believe outsourcing is a rather beneficial thing. Here's my take.

 

First, historically America has outsourced. During the industrial revolution, the north pretty much got rid of agriculture (for the most part) and outsourced to the south. Now we've started to get food from other countries and consequently get it because we outsourced. But in the process of outsourcing, we upped the level of our economy. We're not like third world countries relying on subsistence agriculture because we've had the luxury of outsourcing. Later when NAFTA came around, (and before that) people cried about losing manufacturing jobs (and still are today). Yet, we've had the luxury to not rely on that as a base for our economy. We have the luxury of growing up and having the ability to get other high-paying jobs.

 

Now that we are outsourcing manufacturing and even some white collar jobs. Some may ask what the people losing their jobs must do. Well, that is rather tough for them but the best option is to go back to school. (my personal belief is that bush should probably spend more on job-retraining) New jobs in finance and international business etc.. are everywhere in this country because of the new global economy. These new higher paying jobs are slowly replacing manufacturing jobs lost. We are becoming a more high tech and wealthy country with jobs relying on higher education. Look at America 100 years ago and America today. College education is almost a given now if you want a half decent job and that's only going to become more true. We cant dabble in the past and allow joeshmoe who didnt do shit to rely on that car assembly line if our economy is to have the record growth we've seen.

 

To answer your question specifically though. Outsourcing helps us in two important ways.

 

1. Prices of goods go down. Outsourcing allows goods to be produced cheaper in countries that pay lower wages. You get that software cheaper because programmers in india will take less money and consequently companies pass on the benefits to consumers. You get that car cheaper because we're able to produce parts of the car cheaper in other countries. The global economy has allowed for an unprecedented drop in prices across the board in many areas of the economy and its thanks to ideas such as outsourcing.

 

2. Outsourcing helps the economy by boosting the economic welfare of other countries. Now that a middle class is finally forming in india and china, these new groups are wanting in on US goods. They want to buy our electronics, our computers, our cars, etc.. Rising GDP in these countries only translates into newer markets for american companies.

 

3. Historically this has proven true. Japan was probably the first country that benefited from outsourcing, followed by south korea, china, and now india. These first two have rather high gdp numbers and india and china have excellent growth numbers. Outsourcing has really helped develop these countries and will prove the case with india and china

 

4. Job losses from outsourcing are minimal. We've heard all the hype but the BLS (bureau of labor statistics) and BEA (bureau of economic analysis) have both pointed out that outsourcing is less than 5% of US job losses. Most job losses were simply because of the 2001 recession and weak growth that resulted from that. Corporate scandals and poorly run corporations (airline industry, auditing industry, energy companies, insurance companies etc..) all screwed up and created major job losses.

 

5. I like newer higher paying jobs and think you would too. Outsourcing allows for the creation of newer higher paying jobs in new tertiary industries that pop up in the US. Our standard of living is high because we outsource.

 

So go outsourcing.... :)

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I'm a novice in the National Forensics league this months topic in policy is

"Outsourcing jobs helps the U.S. economy" If me and partner lose the coin toss we're basically screwed unless we do something to the coin we use or get evidance that says outsourcing DOES help our economy so do you have any suggestions on where I should go?

If I lost the coin toss I'd kill myself. You should do the same.

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