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I used this site a ton 20 years ago when I was first learning policy debate. I posted here a lot, and 10 years ago I created the Virtual Debates forum. I loved sparring with fellow CX debaters late into the night. Then I got a job and forgot about cross-x.

My question is, WHAT HAPPENED? There’s so little activity here. Can someone give me the tl;dr of the last decade? Are there any long-time users still here? And where do people engage fellow debaters these days?

Edited by Tomak

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Hey, I'm a current high school policy debater and have been debating for three years.

This website apparently went to shambles because of poor management by the moderators and owner of the site.

Some debaters communicate on discord, or a little on quora or reddit, but there is honestly no great way for debaters to communicate and get better.

Its pretty ashame, and I wish that more people used this site, because there is so much to learn. 

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4 minutes ago, OGRawrcat said:

Yeah this place has fallen apart. A recent example, for the first two weeks of January the security certificate was left expired and the site was inaccessible (without jumping through hoops). Same thing happened in like October. It's frankly embarrassing that apology message is still posted. Longer term: evazon authors weren't paid for years, there was a period where the domain expired, there haven't been mod elections since like 2012, files stopped being posted because people weren't being paid, etc. 

I started an alternative site intended to be a replacement over the summer since a) I have used cross x a lot of the years and think a website like it is a great resource and b) david has been unresponsive to purchase offers. He has popped in enough to put a word on the site name preventing me from plugging it here and telling me I cant freely advertise it, AND ignore me asking about advertising. So I'm kind of confused what the end game is with holding on to a website continually diminishing in value and not paying attention to it.

100% ahaha, crazy how this site was down. 

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6 hours ago, OGRawrcat said:

Yeah this place has fallen apart. A recent example, for the first two weeks of January the security certificate was left expired and the site was inaccessible (without jumping through hoops). Same thing happened in like October. It's frankly embarrassing that apology message is still posted. Longer term: evazon authors weren't paid for years, there was a period where the domain expired, there haven't been mod elections since like 2012, files stopped being posted because people weren't being paid, etc. 

I started an alternative site intended to be a replacement over the summer since a) I have used cross x a lot of the years and think a website like it is a great resource and b) david has been unresponsive to purchase offers. He has popped in enough to put a word filter on the site name preventing me from plugging it here and telling me I cant freely advertise it, AND ignore me asking about advertising. So I'm kind of confused what the end game is with holding on to a website continually diminishing in value and not paying attention to it.

whats the link?

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Just now, OGRawrcat said:

I'll PM you. God forbid I get banned 😂

awesome thanks so mucH!

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On 1/21/2019 at 6:41 PM, OwenK said:

whats the link?

p     o      l    i    c    y     d   b   8   .   c    o   m      but take out the spaces since this site blocks posts that drop the link

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Even before the recent technical issues there was mismanagement. I'd pinpoint the sharp decline of this site to about the time of the last moderator elections. Roughly circa 2014? I can't remember whether they never finished or if they were just the last ones ever, but about that point in time people started to drift away from the forums, trolls started taking over abandoned sections of the website, and similar. We've had months late openings of the topic-specific discussions sections the past several years, Evazon authors have not been receiving payment for their work, and our lingering regulars stopped checking in regularly.

Before that, though, I think discussion on the site was at its healthiest around 2011. The decline from there was slow, until the 2014 decline, but still present.

This needs to be put in context, though, because niche online communities are being outcompeted by aggregators like Reddit across the board, not only in this specific activity. The mismanagement didn't help, but we might have seen a decline regardless.

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On 1/21/2019 at 11:42 AM, OGRawrcat said:

Yeah this place has fallen apart. A recent example, for the first two weeks of January the security certificate was left expired and the site was inaccessible (without jumping through hoops). Same thing happened in like October. It's frankly embarrassing that apology message is still posted. Longer term: evazon authors weren't paid for years, there was a period where the domain expired, there haven't been mod elections since like 2012, files stopped being posted because people weren't being paid, etc. 

I started an alternative site intended to be a replacement over the summer since a) I have used cross x a lot of the years and think a website like it is a great resource and b) david has been unresponsive to purchase offers. He has popped in enough to put a word filter on the site name preventing me from plugging it here and telling me I cant freely advertise it, AND ignore me asking about advertising. So I'm kind of confused what the end game is with holding on to a website continually diminishing in value and not paying attention to it.

ok if David cares enough to prevent you from advertising policydb7 then he's clearly capable of actually taking care of the site. 

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3 hours ago, monkeybusiness said:

ummm does anyone know why he doesn't do anything?

he is lazy and doesnt care

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On 2/6/2019 at 9:15 PM, monkeybusiness said:

how much does it cost to buy the site from him? 

he will not sell it despite multiple people's best effort but still takes the time to ban people

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I've already offered to buy the site at multiple junctures. I wanted it from Kerpen but got out-bid by Garrett (who no one had a problem with on paper). Then Garrett did jack taco for about 2 years before silently handing the website off to someone else with (I believe) no announcement. New guy, David, essentially ran the site into the ground as if he had a personal vendetta. He has since returned, made the payments necessary to curtail a lawsuit, and has disappeared with nary a word. 

But it's ok because HE'S SORRY

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1 minute ago, Maury said:

I've already offered to buy the site at multiple junctures. I wanted it from Kerpen but got out-bid by Garrett (who no one had a problem with on paper). Then Garrett did jack taco for about 2 years before silently handing the website off to someone else with (I believe) no announcement. New guy, David, essentially ran the site into the ground as if he had a personal vendetta. He has since returned, made the payments necessary to curtail a lawsuit, and has disappeared with nary a word. 

But it's ok because HE'S SORRY

Its not at all ok... This site can be awesome but needs to be publicised. 

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On 2/9/2019 at 7:10 AM, OGRawrcat said:

Nah David bought the site with Ross but then Ross sold his half or gave it up or something. 

Ross and David each put in 10k to get it from Kerpin, which made sense because the site had more activity and made more than that in a given year at that time. From what I can tell, he wants that amount back. 

Probably biased, but I think that it could be worth just switching venues haha 

Seriously, we've put just about verything in that joke of an apology thread into place. We've slowed down a bit from the start but that's largely because owners are trying to take a step back from spurring activity (likely a mistake).

what other venue do you suggest because I am down... It has to have a fourm where people can ask and answer questions though. 

Edited by OwenK

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On 2/8/2019 at 8:42 AM, Maury said:

I've already offered to buy the site at multiple junctures. I wanted it from Kerpen but got out-bid by Garrett (who no one had a problem with on paper). Then Garrett did jack taco for about 2 years before silently handing the website off to someone else with (I believe) no announcement. New guy, David, essentially ran the site into the ground as if he had a personal vendetta. He has since returned, made the payments necessary to curtail a lawsuit, and has disappeared with nary a word. 

But it's ok because HE'S SORRY

Is it legal to pay someone 3 years late?  that might be grounds for a lawsuit. 

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On 2/9/2019 at 7:10 AM, OGRawrcat said:

From what I can tell, he wants that amount back.

Ummm he would be more likely to make money from this site if he actually maintained, curated, and promoted this site. 

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I originally joined during the '05-'06 season. Even then people were saying the site used to be more active, and it seemed true based on reading old regional threads. It's tough to get solid numbers because the site has been through multiple owners and multiple software systems, but I think 2 graphs are illustrative.

First, registrations, which peaked in 2007. I'm not sure what that bump in 2015 is, but safe to say that it's an anomaly.

registrations.png

Second is posts. All of the posts prior to mid-2004 were purged at some point, so that data is unavailable. From then, posting peaked in spring 2009 and trended downwards from there. That dip at the end of 2010 was when the site was hacked and the database crashed. After that, I took over.

activity.png

I will certainly shoulder a good amount of blame because of my neglect. There are a lot of things that I could have done that would have helped sustain the site. I think there are also other factors involved. When I first joined, the site had a reputation as a sort of troll haven. A lot of posts were irrelevant and, dare I say, vacuous. While I enjoyed a lot of that, I think that rep kept a lot of people away. This also coincides with a general expansion of online communities like Facebook and Reddit. It is a trend across almost all web forums that activity has been decreasing since then.

I am a little confused about some of the posts about buying the site. I have only ever received 2 inquiries. I will entertain offers, shoot an email to david@ this domain.

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14 hours ago, David said:

I originally joined during the '05-'06 season. Even then people were saying the site used to be more active, and it seemed true based on reading old regional threads. It's tough to get solid numbers because the site has been through multiple owners and multiple software systems, but I think 2 graphs are illustrative.

First, registrations, which peaked in 2007. I'm not sure what that bump in 2015 is, but safe to say that it's an anomaly.

registrations.png

Second is posts. All of the posts prior to mid-2004 were purged at some point, so that data is unavailable. From then, posting peaked in spring 2009 and trended downwards from there. That dip at the end of 2010 was when the site was hacked and the database crashed. After that, I took over.

activity.png

I will certainly shoulder a good amount of blame because of my neglect. There are a lot of things that I could have done that would have helped sustain the site. I think there are also other factors involved. When I first joined, the site had a reputation as a sort of troll haven. A lot of posts were irrelevant and, dare I say, vacuous. While I enjoyed a lot of that, I think that rep kept a lot of people away. This also coincides with a general expansion of online communities like Facebook and Reddit. It is a trend across almost all web forums that activity has been decreasing since then.

I am a little confused about some of the posts about buying the site. I have only ever received 2 inquiries. I will entertain offers, shoot an email to david@ this domain.

While that's great David and all, we all (even more so you) need to make a decision, either openly say you want to sell the website or promote it. (This is the BEST policy website all over the web. People can get help when they need it and ask questions but the thing I would do is sell the site or improve it and get more users. 

 

I think that I speak for most of the active users on this site when I say this that we aren't forcing you to sell the site but either try to get it back to early 2000s levels or sell the site. I think the site can be improved by letting the active users have more of a moderating role... Also open it up to suggestions... see what the users want if you keep the site. 

 

We just want to maintain the best policy site on the web. 

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