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X Spike

I need to contact the owner of this site immediately

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That's hard to determine since a lot of authors who have account credit building up probably havent checked in years and wouldn't care to.

 

Averaging it with number of paid files, average price, and figuring what the average sales would have been over the past 4 years wouldn't be close to accurate because there were definitely higher periods of activity.

NO don't delete your files. It makes the claim less strong and deprives you of your right.

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That's hard to determine since a lot of authors who have account credit building up probably havent checked in years and wouldn't care to.

 

Averaging it with number of paid files, average price, and figuring what the average sales would have been over the past 4 years wouldn't be close to accurate because there were definitely higher periods of activity.

I know that some people retire out of debate, but even some of those people might care if you point out that snarf and others could get cross-x flourishing again.  They would probably make like $100 from a payout too, I'm guessing?

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NO don't delete your files. It makes the claim less strong and deprives you of your right.

I think they meant it was a long time ago, after they realized there was no pay-out

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I apologize. Quite simply, this community deserves better. I am sorry.

 

An email with more details will soon be sent to Evazon authors. Here's the gist:
If you are owed money, please send a new payout request with current payment information. I know some addresses and emails have changed, so to ensure accurate payment I'd like to confirm the proper recipient and preferred method. PayPal payments will be sent quickly, checks will be sent in weekly batches.

 

In the near future, payouts through PayPal will be automated.

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I'm owed hundreds. At least 3 pending payouts. And a year ago I made my files free because I assumed we would never be paid again. Will I get ALL of those past requests? Many have expired. It was nearly 600 total by my count but we'll need a full forensic account to get the details.

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Yes, all earned commission will be paid in full. The software the powers the site groups repeated requests, and properly tracks the full amount earned.

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@Snarf if it takes this long, and this many requests to actually get a payout, could it still be a good idea to proceed with a lawsuit anyways?  An active member of the community could probably make the website a much better active and premier debate forum. 

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@Snarf if it takes this long, and this many requests to actually get a payout, could it still be a good idea to proceed with a lawsuit anyways? An active member of the community could probably make the website a much better active and premier debate forum.

There's actually two active members of the community working on a better active and premier debate forum.

 

X Spike and I are developing a site that will launch by the end of the month, called policydb8.com. We've done a lot of work and built in a few dope features. I'll post a full announcement elsewhere with all features and edit this post to link it here, but I can say a big reason that we should be trusted as an option is that we are active college coaches who have a history with cross-x and understand what it could be doing a lot better.

 

Aside from that, cross-x has become largely a joke to the vast majority of the community. Rather than trying to convince people that cross-x is a valuable site again, we think that a new brand with a better approach is the right way to go. Like, David is what, owner number 4 or 5 to end up abandoning the site? This site has been a long series of disappointments from its owners and overall that's what the debate community expects from it.

 

EDIT: Link to the announcement: https://www.cross-x.com/topic/61964-announcing-a-new-debate-website/

Edited by OGRawrcat
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@Snarf if it takes this long, and this many requests to actually get a payout, could it still be a good idea to proceed with a lawsuit anyways?  An active member of the community could probably make the website a much better active and premier debate forum.

 

David paying makes a lawsuit mostly less viable BUT the people David wrongfully withheld from are likely entitled to compound interest (somewhere bt 7-10% per year depending on where we sued) and could quite easily recover for that in small claims. If David really wants to make things right, and means what he’s saying about “cross-x deserving better”, he’ll pay a compound interest from the time that each payment accrued as well as all balance of all payments due. He’d should also reach out to site veterans who have payments due but haven’t logged in for a while, and offer them payments as well. A simple message that they’re entitled to $ would be a good start.

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There's actually two active members of the community working on a better active and premier debate forum.

 

X Spike and I are developing a site that will launch by the end of the month, called policydb8.com. We've done a lot of work and built in a few dope features. I'll post a full announcement elsewhere with all features and edit this post to link it here, but I can say a big reason that we should be trusted as an option is that we are active college coaches who have a history with cross-x and understand what it could be doing a lot better.

 

Aside from that, cross-x has become largely a joke to the vast majority of the community. Rather than trying to convince people that cross-x is a valuable site again, we think that a new brand with a better approach is the right way to go. Like, David is what, owner number 4 or 5 to end up abandoning the site? This site has been a long series of disappointments from its owners and overall that's what the debate community expects from it.

 

EDIT: Link to the announcement: https://www.cross-x.com/topic/61964-announcing-a-new-debate-website/

 

lol, do something about it

I get that this is a cool project for you, but there's a lot of history and name recognition behind cross-x.com.  Its decline in traffic is disappointing, but many current coaches did grow up using the site, and a nostalgic gander can be translated to forum posts and file uploads and purchases in a way that non-visit to yet another debate website, whether camp website or briefs company, never could.  Cross-x isn't worth giving up on, it just needs a new, responsible and active owner, and it's the only forum big enough and not tied to social media (fb, rddt, discrd) to demand good leadership when the incumbent has functionally left. 

It's easier to take something good and make it great, than to make something great from scratch.  For cross-x, there's duhbait, debate co-op, ld.com, ld.org, pfdebate.com, and even more I've never heard of.  This site has been around since the beginning and was the de-facto non-listserv discussion area for a long time.  It has a reach and brand recognition that is unrivaled and should be put to good use.  Even 'fallen brands' like Yahoo, Ask.com, Digg, are some of the most popular websites around in absolute terms. 

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David paying makes a lawsuit mostly less viable BUT the people David wrongfully withheld from are likely entitled to compound interest (somewhere bt 7-10% per year depending on where we sued) and could quite easily recover for that in small claims. If David really wants to make things right, and means what he’s saying about “cross-x deserving better”, he’ll pay a compound interest from the time that each payment accrued as well as all balance of all payments due. He’d should also reach out to site veterans who have payments due but haven’t logged in for a while, and offer them payments as well. A simple message that they’re entitled to $ would be a good start.

lol to clarify I'm not interested in a lawsuit because of some silly sense of justice, but because it's the most enforceable mechanism for responsible ownership from david.  could a lawsuit force him to hand the website over to someone else?  It sounds like some other people on crossx are interested in running a debate website, so I'm interested to hear what it would take to get it transferred to their name.  I've never heard of david, but I know spike won ceda, which commands a lot of authority in itself. 

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I get that this is a cool project for you, but there's a lot of history and name recognition behind cross-x.com. Its decline in traffic is disappointing, but many current coaches did grow up using the site, and a nostalgic gander can be translated to forum posts and file uploads and purchases in a way that non-visit to yet another debate website, whether camp website or briefs company, never could. Cross-x isn't worth giving up on, it just needs a new, responsible and active owner, and it's the only forum big enough and not tied to social media (fb, rddt, discrd) to demand good leadership when the incumbent has functionally left.

It's easier to take something good and make it great, than to make something great from scratch. For cross-x, there's duhbait, debate co-op, ld.com, ld.org, pfdebate.com, and even more I've never heard of. This site has been around since the beginning and was the de-facto non-listserv discussion area for a long time. It has a reach and brand recognition that is unrivaled and should be put to good use. Even 'fallen brands' like Yahoo, Ask.com, Digg, are some of the most popular websites around in absolute terms.

 

Just a project?

A- A lawsuit will take a long time, even longer when the site will effectively have to be stripped and redesigned to meet the features that policydb8 has integrated already.

B- The legwork that has gone into creating what is a public good for the debate community should go beyond classification as a project. I love this site, but more importantly I love the the concept behind it and that's what matters.

C- This isn't some idea, it's a functioning website getting finishing touches.

 

This decline isn't a David thing. It was in decline a decade ago when I joined this site initially and was an active user on it.

Coaches growing up using it isn't necessarily a good thing. It has had a negative connotation to a fair majority of people in the community and it'll be a tough sell to market it back to them. A cross-x revival is harder to accomplish to a well advertised new site that says it wants to do cross x right as opposed to just another new cross x owner who makes false promises.

 

This also overlooks a fundamental aspect of high school debate as well as college novice debate: it has a constant influx of new members. Nostalgia applies very largely to long time users who may or may not still be involved in debate generally, much less in high school, and are a subset of a subset of a subset of the community. So if it's a practical concern with keeping cross-x, I don't think that's an issue.

Edited by OGRawrcat
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I get that this is a cool project for you, but there's a lot of history and name recognition behind cross-x.com.  Its decline in traffic is disappointing, but many current coaches did grow up using the site, and a nostalgic gander can be translated to forum posts and file uploads and purchases in a way that non-visit to yet another debate website, whether camp website or briefs company, never could.  Cross-x isn't worth giving up on, it just needs a new, responsible and active owner, and it's the only forum big enough and not tied to social media (fb, rddt, discrd) to demand good leadership when the incumbent has functionally left. 

It's easier to take something good and make it great, than to make something great from scratch.  For cross-x, there's duhbait, debate co-op, ld.com, ld.org, pfdebate.com, and even more I've never heard of.  This site has been around since the beginning and was the de-facto non-listserv discussion area for a long time.  It has a reach and brand recognition that is unrivaled and should be put to good use.  Even 'fallen brands' like Yahoo, Ask.com, Digg, are some of the most popular websites around in absolute terms. 

 

 

lol to clarify I'm not interested in a lawsuit because of some silly sense of justice, but because it's the most enforceable mechanism for responsible ownership from david.  could a lawsuit force him to hand the website over to someone else?  It sounds like some other people on crossx are interested in running a debate website, so I'm interested to hear what it would take to get it transferred to their name.  I've never heard of david, but I know spike won ceda, which commands a lot of authority in itself. 

 

I appreciate the shoutout to RJ and I's CEDA win, thanks lol. 

 

I agree with you on all points about the value of cross-x, I've been on this website as a long time, served as a mod, created 8 Mins of Inherency in the 1NC/The Hole, and have put a lot of energy into this website over the years. In fact, it is my love for the website that drives me to create a new one. Having been here since long before David (and even Kerpen's) ownership, I know what the website used to look like. It's an ugly husk of its former self. A lot of younger debaters think the website is ugly or too dead for them to populate, they want something new. While I love what this website has been, I think that the debate community needs an upgrade for its forums and social node/center, and a new platform is the easiest way to provide those upgrades. 

There are a lot of features that this website just can't provide, it's built in an old and out-dated web builder and it's unmanaged like a wild garden. A fresh build seems in order, not just an overhaul of this site to better management. Damage has already been done since the 4-years-ago tweet of "Cross-x isn't dead, we promise!" - most people presume the space is already a dead zone, and for the most part it is. Its traffic is nowhere near its peak numbers, its activity is sparse and maintained by a small handful of committed posters. While I would agree cross-x carried high brand recognition AND reputation years ago, its brand recognition now actually operates in the reverse direction as a sign of negative reputation. When people in debate hear "cross-x.com" they get a nostalgic look of fond memory but are ultimately left with a sour taste in their mouth. Time for a new brand.

Edited by X Spike
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I'd love to hear both of you talk a little more about the legitimacy problem - a ton of sites with varying levels of sophistication have tried to new the "new cross-x," and have consistently never attracted a sufficient critical mass to shift the center of gravity from here to anywhere else. The criticisms about CX being poor now could either be a reason to move or a reason to improve here. Since I get that you're both seriously committed to the former option, I think it would be useful to hear your replies to the legitimacy problem.

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I'd love to hear both of you talk a little more about the legitimacy problem - a ton of sites with varying levels of sophistication have tried to new the "new cross-x," and have consistently never attracted a sufficient critical mass to shift the center of gravity from here to anywhere else. The criticisms about CX being poor now could either be a reason to move or a reason to improve here. Since I get that you're both seriously committed to the former option, I think it would be useful to hear your replies to the legitimacy problem.

I don't know what sites you're referring to, so i can't testify to why or why not they failed, but that could be pertinent info that's helpful if you could give some examples of sites and their sophistication.

 

I think a large problem is that most sites get stuck at one feature. They have web forums, or sell files, or whatever. We're offering something that has a wide array of features that can be used in a variety of ways. I'm not sure what your response to that announcement I posted was, but I don't think you think it's a bad idea. In that world, I don't know why we should be dismissed outright.

 

Cross x isn't at a point where it can match that now or in the immediate future. Insofar as there is a better option, cross x is comparatively less legitimate especially with its structural problems now.

Edited by OGRawrcat

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It's easier to take something good and make it great, than to make something great from scratch.  For cross-x, there's duhbait, debate co-op, ld.com, ld.org, pfdebate.com, and even more I've never heard of.  This site has been around since the beginning and was the de-facto non-listserv discussion area for a long time.  It has a reach and brand recognition that is unrivaled and should be put to good use.  Even 'fallen brands' like Yahoo, Ask.com, Digg, are some of the most popular websites around in absolute terms. 

I actually think this is a really thorough articulation of the point. 

 

I think we talked a little past eachother - you're talking about your website's functionality, while I'm talking about cross-x's popularity and legitimacy (despite not being as functional). Cross-x has an enormous membership base and name recognition, largely built on its historical luck and legacy, and I'm wondering if you have a specific plan to build your alternative website's base to comparable levels -- and if so, why that plan is likely to succeed relative to c-x's enormous existing base.

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I actually think this is a really thorough articulation of the point.

 

I think we talked a little past eachother - you're talking about your website's functionality, while I'm talking about cross-x's popularity and legitimacy (despite not being as functional). Cross-x has an enormous membership base and name recognition, largely built on its historical luck and legacy, and I'm wondering if you have a specific plan to build your alternative website's base to comparable levels -- and if so, why that plan is likely to succeed relative to c-x's enormous existing base.

Oh no, that was intentional. I know Chris is planning to post about that and there's no point in repeating one other.

 

And yes, we do. It's not just the campaign strategy of "reject that person." Our goal isnt just recreate a web forum but to design a website that's all encompassing for policy debate needs and activities. A lot of that is informed by things we saw that could be better with cross x and other platforms. For example, 90% of posts on this site now are edebates and people are using discord for debates. Thus we made it mandatory for us to include group video chat integrated into the site with single sign on (syncs to your site username), which admittedly caused us a lot of headache. On face we are responsive to needs of the debate community AND actively concerned with them.

 

Most of the debate community doesn't care about web forums and those people that don't care absolutely do not want to hear "come check out this new thing on cross x" because that's what it's known as.

Edited by OGRawrcat

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Just a project?

Fine, I'll call you 'performance debate' if that's what you prefer. 

 

This decline isn't a David thing. It was in decline a decade ago when I joined this site initially and was an active user on it.

Coaches growing up using it isn't necessarily a good thing. It has had a negative connotation to a fair majority of people in the community and it'll be a tough sell to market it back to them. A cross-x revival is harder to accomplish to a well advertised new site that says it wants to do cross x right as opposed to just another new cross x owner who makes false promises.

 

This also overlooks a fundamental aspect of high school debate as well as college novice debate: it has a constant influx of new members. Nostalgia applies very largely to long time users who may or may not still be involved in debate generally, much less in high school, and are a subset of a subset of a subset of the community. So if it's a practical concern with keeping cross-x, I don't think that's an issue.

David's a worse version of the preceding decline.  The site didn't innovate with the times in the way that yours plans to.  It could have had, for example, messaging, video lectures where comments were timestamped, live file collaboration a la sharepoint before pads was a thing, etc.  It didn't, and after david took over, more (squo) things became "didn't happen"s. 

in my experience, the attitude toward this site is 'lol no one uses that anymore'.  The site hasn't been malicious to the vast majority of users (only authors).  There are plenty of instructive posts from ankur, snarf, tammie peters, etc that are still insightful and cardable.  No one thinks it's a bad resource, just that it requires a middleman/management that anticipates and enables constructive activities.  If you want to 'do cross-x right', another website is not cross-x.com. 

This seems to boil down to the domain of your website.  I find 'Leonardi, 2 time first round, and rawrcat, coach of ada-winning gmu, are bringing cross-x back to its apex', is much more persuasive than you 2 'developing the best debate forum'.  If the decline of cross-x began in 2008, and a debate coach took 5 years to graduate college, most coaches coaching for 5 or more years can attest to how high that apex was, and how popular and illuminating this site once was, much of which has been artifacted into some pretty fantastic forum posts. 

Maybe the ranks of college coaches change a lot, but in high school there are more than 5 coaches above the age of 55.  Texas UIL is much less prone to coach burnout than NDT death marches.  'cross-x.com' is probably still on their handout listing debate resources.  I know K debate is really utopic and loosely internally linked, but the real world is much slower and difficult to change.  With a cross-x.com domain, no matter how large the overhaul, you reach generations and areas of debate beyond your imagination and not just college/natcircuit.  I know back in the day, a lot of LDers read this forum and could have benefitted from their own subforums - and still could. 

I heard ross garret 'gave' david the website.  does anyone know if he's willing to 'give' the login to someone else too? 

Also I'm sorry if it sounds too much like I'm trying to tell you what to do when its your emotional labor and time, trying to provide a possibly useful opinion. 

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I appreciate the shoutout to RJ and I's CEDA win, thanks lol.

face-throwing-a-kiss_1f618.png

I agree with you on all points about the value of cross-x, I've been on this website as a long time, served as a mod, created 8 Mins of Inherency in the 1NC/The Hole, and have put a lot of energy into this website over the years. In fact, it is my love for the website that drives me to create a new one. Having been here since long before David (and even Kerpen's) ownership, I know what the website used to look like. It's an ugly husk of its former self. A lot of younger debaters think the website is ugly or too dead for them to populate, they want something new. While I love what this website has been, I think that the debate community needs an upgrade for its forums and social node/center, and a new platform is the easiest way to provide those upgrades. 

There are a lot of features that this website just can't provide, it's built in an old and out-dated web builder and it's unmanaged like a wild garden. A fresh build seems in order, not just an overhaul of this site to better management. Damage has already been done since the 4-years-ago tweet of "Cross-x isn't dead, we promise!" - most people presume the space is already a dead zone, and for the most part it is. Its traffic is nowhere near its peak numbers, its activity is sparse and maintained by a small handful of committed posters. While I would agree cross-x carried high brand recognition AND reputation years ago, its brand recognition now actually operates in the reverse direction as a sign of negative reputation. When people in debate hear "cross-x.com" they get a nostalgic look of fond memory but are ultimately left with a sour taste in their mouth. Time for a new brand.

the website absolutely is in need of an upgrade.  that doesn't warrant discarding or severing the legacy of cross-x.  I'm not sure who involved you were with coding your new website, but if you built it yourself, you should know that if you own the website/have root permissions, it is not impossible to migrate accounts and threads to a new forum technology. 

previous users maintain their account and can make a new, quick post to a struggling freshman without a post with the 5 seconds it takes to login, and the credibility of all their previous posts. 

How big is the demand for a new debate forum?  the existing ones work fine.  you can create demand for new services, but you need to catch someone's eye first.  By owning cross-x.com, your website becomes your advertisement for your services.  pinned posts on reddit, fb groups, expire, require an account, and structurally confine (css/html/js) your salesmanship

Edited by monkeybusiness

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@monkeybusiness

 

This is a lot to respond to at once and I'm on my phone so I'll admittedly forego direct responses with quoting. I can be more thorough with your post later if you think i should be.

 

You're not entirely wrong about the value of acquiring cross x and are right about our ability to convert it into our site pretty easily. We do believe what we're saying about the decline of the site and in the end either way could very well be successful.

 

Idk if David (or Ross) really would sell or not, if he would, we could be interested sure, BUT...

 

While you're right that he hasn't been malicious to users, he has done a huge disservice. Like what has he been doing for 4 years? He clearly has been perfectly capable of doing something with the site the next day after being threatened with legal action. There's no reason he couldn't have developed the site or given it to someone so they could do so.

 

I'm not sure if he should be rewarded for showing up after years, disperses some of the money he's likely just been sitting on so it's not even a loss for him, and then gets paid by someone so sick of his indifference that they're willing to pay whatever he values the site's traffic at.

 

In the end, what's really holding back a transition is willingness to move over. People have clearly been willing to use alternative platforms rather than cross x for basic web discussions. What's the barrier for replacing cross x with something that starts similar but builds up to be so much more? I don't know how other people heard about cross x, but in my experience it's by word of mouth and has been. We're in an era of google adwords and promoted Facebook or Twitter posts to build quick brand awareness; word of mouth and adoption of using particular features of the site fill in the gap.

 

We'll be online shortly. We want to rally a few more people to try the site now. Give us a shot. We have the debate community in mind and rather than just acquire an existing community site, we've aimed to tailor a site to the community, aiming to engage both the college and high school communities. If David really wants to play ball on selling the site and there's pressure for us to try, we can consider it.

Edited by OGRawrcat

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@monkeybusiness

 

This is a lot to respond to at once and I'm on my phone so I'll admittedly forego direct responses with quoting. I can be more thorough with your post later if you think i should be.

 

You're not entirely wrong about the value of acquiring cross x or our ability to convert it into our site. We do believe what we're saying about the decline of the site and in the end either way could very well be successful.

 

Idk if David really would sell or not, if he would, we could be interested sure, BUT...

 

While you're right that he hasn't been malicious to users, he has done a huge disservice. Like what has he been doing for 4 years? He clearly has been perfectly capable of doing something with the site the next day after being threatened with legal action.

 

I'm not sure if he should be rewarded for showing up after years, disperses some of the money he's likely just been sitting on and been neglectful with when it would be easy to just approve payouts so it's not even a loss for him, and then gets paid by someone so sick of his indifference that they're willing to pay whatever he values the site's traffic at.

You can read and answer it if you want, but I only posted to give some feedback on what I think is best for the community.  I don't care if david is 'rewarded' with a site buyout as long as he's out of the picture, whether crossx is revitilized, or policydb8 surpasses it.  If i wasn't clear before, no one thinks crossx is a disservice but authors; the average poster thiknks its just a drab service. 

word of mouth assumes existing connections.  when i was competing in local circuit in the south, I found crossx by myself by searching google (or was it alta vista?).  no one else on my team used it.

 

 

 

 

While you're right that he hasn't been malicious to users, he has done a huge disservice. Like what has he been doing for 4 years? He clearly has been perfectly capable of doing something with the site the next day after being threatened with legal action. There's no reason he couldn't have developed the site or given it to

In the end, what's really holding back a transition is willingness to move over. People have clearly been willing to use alternative platforms rather than cross x for basic web discussions. What's the barrier for replacing cross x with something that starts similar but builds up to be so much more? I don't know how other people heard about cross x, but in my experience it's by word of mouth and has been. We're in an era of google adwords and promoted Facebook or Twitter posts to build quick brand awareness; word of mouth and adoption of using particular features of the site fill in the gap.

 

We'll be online shortly. We want to rally a few more people to try the site now. Give us a shot. We have the debate community in mind and rather than just acquire an existing community site, we've aimed to tailor a site to the community, aiming to engage both the college and high school communities. If David really wants to play ball on selling the site and there's pressure for us to try, we can consider it.

 

uniqueness doesn't determine the link.  cross-x's dull brand doesn't prevent it from resurging.  It sounds like you have some pretty fantastic website ideas; I'll be sure to visit.  As Ssnarf said, my only disagreement is what the website's name is.  Is there any issue with perm: acquire the domain, migrate the threads and accounts, and redirect urls to their transplantation on policydb8 besides vintage users not knowing they can login to policydb8 with a crossx account?

Edited by monkeybusiness

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uniqueness doesn't determine the link. cross-x's dull brand doesn't prevent it from resurging. It sounds like you have some pretty fantastic website ideas; I'll be sure to visit. As Ssnarf said, my only disagreement is what the website's name is. Is there any issue with perm: acquire the domain, migrate the threads and accounts, and redirect urls to their transplantation on policydb8 besides vintage users not knowing they can login to policydb8 with a crossx account?

 

No. Snarf and I had a PM convo where I got at something similar that in the end getting cross x isnt intrinsically awful but a rebranding would be good, meaning a new name on top of new owners. People who know the domain would show up via redirect.

 

That is obviously the ideal world and I got at that as well in my last post that we could play ball with David, and expressed that it's frustrating. We're not saying the website should be trashed and all data lost but that the brand has some negative connotations and why we are good right now in context of current cross x.

 

Use our site, if David is willing to sell, we can get cross x data converted over later. Which name to use? Idk right now. In the end we just want to to make debate better and it's not worth sitting on our hands until someone happens with cross x to move forward with that, that's happened for 4 years, working out cross x integration can always come later.

 

Sometime in the next few days we'd like to get beta testers on our site to test our group chat features together and have a chat. So if you want us to see you there, we'll be happy to have you.

Edited by OGRawrcat

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No. Snarf and I had a PM convo where I got at something similar that in the end getting cross x isnt intrinsically awful but a rebranding would be good, meaning a new name on top of new owners. People who know the domain would show up via redirect.

 

That is obviously the ideal world and I got at that as well in my last post that we could play ball with David, and expressed that it's frustrating. We're not saying the website should be trashed and all data lost but that the brand has some negative connotations and why we are good right now in context of current cross x.

 

Use our site, if David is willing to sell, we can get cross x data converted over later. Which name to use? Idk right now. In the end we just want to to make debate better and it's not worth sitting on our hands until someone happens with cross x to move forward with that, that's happened for 4 years, working out cross x integration can always come later.

 

Sometime in the next few days we'd like to get beta testers on our site to test our group chat features together and have a chat. So if you want us to see you there, we'll be happy to have you.

lol are we even disagreeing much?

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