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I think we should now reevaluate:

 

Although Greenhill CR is still quite fearsome, I believe a new Greenhill team has risen to take the spot of best Texas Team

 

The great honor, I believe, belongs to none other than the mighty duo of Josh Leffler and Timothy Wegner!!!!

 

Most recently, they won the most prestigious texas tournament of all: The Coppell Cowboy Classic!!! What a feat! 

 

Forget about Greenhill EG or AK or even Highland Park MK (who most recently read ashtar to beat Greenhill EG at the somewhat mediocre Southern Bell Forum tournament)

 

If you see the graceful and powerful 2NRs of Josh Leffler or even the heavenly 2ACs of Timmy, you will be completely mesmerized and might even think you've been hearing Barton spreading instead.

 

I think that without question Greenhill LW is the newest team to watch out for - before they run over you completely at least.

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Im not super familiar with the Austin teams, but:

 

Is there any notable teams from LASA? (isnt their top team graduating?)

 

What about Westwood? (didn't they have more than 4 teams break and have the top seed?)

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Im not super familiar with the Austin teams, but:

 

Is there any notable teams from LASA? (isnt their top team graduating?)

 

What about Westwood? (didn't they have more than 4 teams break and have the top seed?)

LASA and Westwood will be re-building sort of next year; their TOC teams are gone but they have some teams in the pipeline that just need to take the next step up to get to the next level

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4 hours ago, InterrogatinReality said:

The season is well underway so I think it’s thag time again to posit this question - who are the best texas teams currently?

Greenhill AE, Hendrickson GS

 

Both are gonna go far again, GS seems to be kicking it up a notch this year and AE good lord are already taking names and bids left and right

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What of the 4 teams in UNT semis? CC is from OK so no including them but there's still - 

Hebron KL

North Lamar HH

Jesuit HT

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26 minutes ago, TheTrashDebater said:

Greenhill AE, Hendrickson GS

 

Both are gonna go far again, GS seems to be kicking it up a notch this year and AE good lord are already taking names and bids left and right

Before the season I had Greenhill AE as the favorite to win TFA and do well at the TOC because Samar is one of the best speakers I have ever heard and Chris is uber techy and fast, but this post is wildly hyperbolic. Greenhill AE has only gone to two tournaments, Meadows and St Marks, and has only two bids which is a pretty small sample size. To give context, this is the same amount of bids as Coppell DR which, although they have kicked it up a notch, are probably not going to win TFA or break at the TOC (This isn't a dis-respect to Coppell DR, they're a great team that put in a lot of work this summer and great people but it's just mean to place Greenhill's success so far in context).

Hendrickson in theory is one of the best teams in Texas but they started the season really slow and didn't break Grapevine which is considered (relatively) to be the easiest of all of the Dallas ToC bid tournaments next to Colleyville. They'll probably inevitably return to the mean of their potential but not at this moment.

Right now, the best team in Texas is either St Marks RV or Highland Park KM/LM. Ethan Muse is a phenomenal debater and has the potential to win TFA this year and NDCA is arguably St Marks' tournament to lose. In addition, Jesuit HM and Jesuit HT improved a ton and are very strong contenders to win TFA.

2 minutes ago, 21savage said:

What of the 4 teams in UNT semis? CC is from OK so no including them but there's still - 

Hebron KL

North Lamar HH

Jesuit HT

North Lamar HH is a good tech team with quirky Affs that tend to have obvious plot holes. Look for them to be on the cusp of breaking or a very low seed at TFA state. 

Hebron KL is a good team but they've regressed after Andrew Nguyen graduated. They have a very good evidence but the line by line in a lot of their debates tend to be sub-par and some of the high theory they go for lacks lay-men explanations. They didn't break at Grapevine and werethe 32nd seed at Greenhill but look for them to have a very solid 2nd semester and prove me wrong at TFA.

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51 minutes ago, elmeryang00 said:

Hebron KL is a good team but they've regressed after Andrew Nguyen graduated. They have a very good evidence but the line by line in a lot of their debates tend to be sub-par and some of the high theory they go for lacks lay-men explanations. They didn't break at Grapevine and werethe 32nd seed at Greenhill but look for them to have a very solid 2nd semester and prove me wrong at TFA.

Bruh just lemme finish college apps wait for the 2nd semester power buff like last year

what's this stuff about line by line tho? wut

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50 minutes ago, elmeryang00 said:

Before the season I had Greenhill AE as the favorite to win TFA and do well at the TOC because Samar is one of the best speakers I have ever heard and Chris is uber techy and fast, but this post is wildly hyperbolic. Greenhill AE has only gone to two tournaments, Meadows and St Marks, and has only two bids which is a pretty small sample size. To give context, this is the same amount of bids as Coppell DR which, although they have kicked it up a notch, are probably not going to win TFA or break at the TOC (This isn't a dis-respect to Coppell DR, they're a great team that put in a lot of work this summer and great people but it's just mean to place Greenhill's success so far in context).

Hendrickson in theory is one of the best teams in Texas but they started the season really slow and didn't break Grapevine which is considered (relatively) to be the easiest of all of the Dallas ToC bid tournaments next to Colleyville. They'll probably inevitably return to the mean of their potential but not at this moment.

Right now, the best team in Texas is either St Marks RV or Highland Park KM/LM. Ethan Muse is a phenomenal debater and has the potential to win TFA this year and NDCA is arguably St Marks' tournament to lose. In addition, Jesuit HM and Jesuit HT improved a ton and are very strong contenders to win TFA.

North Lamar HH is a good tech team with quirky Affs that tend to have obvious plot holes. Look for them to be on the cusp of breaking or a very low seed at TFA state. 

Hebron KL is a good team but they've regressed after Andrew Nguyen graduated. They have a very good evidence but the line by line in a lot of their debates tend to be sub-par and some of the high theory they go for lacks lay-men explanations. They didn't break at Grapevine and werethe 32nd seed at Greenhill but look for them to have a very solid 2nd semester and prove me wrong at TFA.

@elmeryang00 I agree with you mostly but there are some places that I disagree with. 

 

North Lamar is NOT a good tech team. Their strategy consists of misdisclosure and not disclosing, reading multiple contradictory offs, and neglecting to answer the line by line or just having horrible answers to them. They do not deserve to be anywhere near the top teams in Texas. 

 

St. Marks RV and Highland Park LM are not the best teams in Texas. Greenhill LW is better than St. Marks RV. Muse is a phenomenal debater but he doesn't have Kapadia anymore and is debating with a Junior who is holding him down. 

 

Hebron KL may be held down by Loyd, but Sunil is a phenomenal debater. 1st Speaker at Grapevine TOC and made it to the bid round at Greenhill - the decision took one hour, that's how close it was. 

 

Yes Grapevine might've been the easiest tournament but it is also the first tournament, which means teams don't have the time to build chemistry. If teams like Hebron KL, Hebron LB, Greenhill LW, Greenhill KR, etc. are making it to the bid rounds at better tournaments such as Greenhill, Meadows, and St. Marks, that just proves the beginning was a rough start but not an accurate assessment of their skill. 

 

Also, one team I see that isn't here is Woodlands MR - they just got the bid at Michigan. 

Also, Elmer mentioned this but I don't know why Coppell DR wasn't on the original addendum to the list. 

Also, two LASA teams got bids at Grapevine. 

 

 

 

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On 10/28/2018 at 11:44 PM, sunilthesloth said:

Bruh just lemme finish college apps wait for the 2nd semester power buff like last year

what's this stuff about line by line tho? wut

LMAO my bad Sunil, I have nothing but mad respect for you but you had some high theory 2AR about Speed-Elitism that that randomly materialized in TFA Quarters that had no bearing literally in answering Will's 2NR. It was like a 2 minute chunk of your 2AR arguments that really didn't help you in the long run and in my mind, got Leslie to vote against you. You still should've won that debate but a lot of the times I've seen y'all, you rely on overview chunks in embedded LBL that seems awkward at times. You make it work though so I expect big things at TFA and potentially the TOC.

On 10/28/2018 at 11:55 PM, bhadbhabie said:

@elmeryang00 I agree with you mostly but there are some places that I disagree with. 

 

North Lamar is NOT a good tech team. Their strategy consists of misdisclosure and not disclosing, reading multiple contradictory offs, and neglecting to answer the line by line or just having horrible answers to them. They do not deserve to be anywhere near the top teams in Texas. 

 

St. Marks RV and Highland Park LM are not the best teams in Texas. Greenhill LW is better than St. Marks RV. Muse is a phenomenal debater but he doesn't have Kapadia anymore and is debating with a Junior who is holding him down. 

 

Hebron KL may be held down by Loyd, but Sunil is a phenomenal debater. 1st Speaker at Grapevine TOC and made it to the bid round at Greenhill - the decision took one hour, that's how close it was. 

 

Yes Grapevine might've been the easiest tournament but it is also the first tournament, which means teams don't have the time to build chemistry. If teams like Hebron KL, Hebron LB, Greenhill LW, Greenhill KR, etc. are making it to the bid rounds at better tournaments such as Greenhill, Meadows, and St. Marks, that just proves the beginning was a rough start but not an accurate assessment of their skill. 

 

Also, one team I see that isn't here is Woodlands MR - they just got the bid at Michigan. 

Also, Elmer mentioned this but I don't know why Coppell DR wasn't on the original addendum to the list. 

Also, two LASA teams got bids at Grapevine. 

 

 

 

You're right about North Lamar to some extent. Not a big fan of the disclosure stuff since I was in their circuit when I was in high school but they have some decent LBL skills and Zach has a good understanding of over-arching concepts. What holds them back is their strategy choices that severely limit their potential. I did say that they'd be competing for the 32nd seed and not a top 10 seed. 

Greenhill LW is heavily reliant on their coaching prep. Wegener (SP?) is very good, but Leffler has problematic clarity issues that'll hold them back in the long run. This is something that St Marks 

When Muse wasn't that good and he was with Cerny, HP was a top 25 team in the country. Muse has gotten exponentially better and has proven that he can hold his own against the best with a lesser opponent. OP also said that right now, who was the best, and Muse has shown along with the top 2 Jesuit Teams and St Marks RV that they up to this point that they are better than the teams that started more slowly.

I talked about Hebron above. North Broward made the wrong choice in that round, the Brough Ev is fire in certain circumstances but Afro-Pess ruse to analogy stuff indicts the Settler Affect stuff much better.

I'll grant you Woodlands MR, they've gotten better each year. Look for a Westside NP style performance at the Texas TOC tournaments after their bid at Michigan. Props to Amogh for doing an outstanding coaching job. 

Coppell DR is a good team but their success at Greenhill and St Marks is from mostly terrible strategy choice by Negatives against their Leprosy Aff. There's a lot of lit indicting Kristeva's Abjection args as well as the obvious double turn from their former usage of Warren but teams just go for generic Framework. I have also yet to see a team go for Leprosy Disease Security DA/Turn to their Aff which is prob the strongest thing against it. I think that the plot holes in the Aff are more of a testament to their skills but Negative's just don't exploit them enough. However, I love seeing public school success tho so I hope they keep it up. 

Yao Yao does a phenomenal job of coaching LASA which keeps them competitive but their overall team just lacks the star power of LASA MS, LASA AV, and LASA CM. Not saying that CU or another of their teams can't surprise, but 1 bid just isn't good enough to cut it as the best.

If we were talking about overall star power and potential, Greenhill AE, Jesuit HM, Greenhill LW, and Hendrickson GS would prob be the best 4 teams. But OP said currently, so I have to evaluate Grapevine, St Marks, and Greenhill as the current bearing of their skill level to this point which means that I stand by most of my evaluations. 

Edit - I'm making an addendum to my initial post. Earlier, I made some points about how Coppell DR's success at Grapevine and Greenhill was mostly due to teams not taking advantage of the plot holes in the Leprosy 1AC. However, it has come to my attention that Coppell has won more Neg rounds then Aff rounds in their bid hunting chase. This honestly doesn't surprise me as Coppell is now probably either the best or 2nd best Anti-Blackness team in Texas after Woodlands MR and no one should mitigate how great they've done this year. My initial post wasn't to mitigate or moot Coppell's success, I have nothing but respect for how much better Het and Shreyas have gotten especially in the cutthroat nature of the Dallas circuit and I apologize to Coppell DR if it came off that way. My post was mostly expressing disappointment at the lack of unique strategy choice by established teams like St Marks, Greenhill, and Woodward to exploit the holes in Coppell's Affs and not at the lack of Coppell DR's skills. 

Edited by elmeryang00
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Hey everyone, especially Elmer (the only person that recognizes me on this thread)

I agree that Woodlands MR and Coppell DR (massive shout out to Shrey kicking ass) shouldn't be left off the list, and the majority of everything else said so far is true, with Greenhill, Hendrickson, St Marks and so forth. 

Where I can offer insight would be with Paris North Lamar HH. Brief backstory, I went to Prosper HS, which is a suburb school in Northern DFW, so local TFA tournaments almost always featured North Lamar, alongside other mainstays like Coppell, McKinney Boyd (Elmer), and others. During this, North Lamar HH debated me a ton over the past few years (with different partnerships) Specifically, I think I went like 3-1 collectively against Zach Huffman with his various partners. From my biased, narrow point of view: He's a phenomenal debater in the right setting, but he definitely can be shifty about disclosure and suspect evidence. Quirky only begins to describe some affs (Systems last year) or some of their neg strats. They consistently do well though, which is a testament to their work ethic. Furthermore, considering they go to a school in the middle of nowhere and have maybe all of 4 people in their prep circle, if even that many, I'm psyched that they did well this past weekend. Still, doing well at UNT doesn't truly correlate to being one of the best in Texas, yet I do think they deserve some credit for surviving the slog of stellar Dallas teams, namely Jesuit. 

Just some brief, rambling thoughts I had between my classes today.

- Hunter

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18 hours ago, bhadbhabie said:

@elmeryang00 I agree with you mostly but there are some places that I disagree with. 

 

North Lamar is NOT a good tech team. Their strategy consists of misdisclosure and not disclosing, reading multiple contradictory offs, and neglecting to answer the line by line or just having horrible answers to them. They do not deserve to be anywhere near the top teams in Texas. 

 

St. Marks RV and Highland Park LM are not the best teams in Texas. Greenhill LW is better than St. Marks RV. Muse is a phenomenal debater but he doesn't have Kapadia anymore and is debating with a Junior who is holding him down. 

 

Hebron KL may be held down by Loyd, but Sunil is a phenomenal debater. 1st Speaker at Grapevine TOC and made it to the bid round at Greenhill - the decision took one hour, that's how close it was. 

 

Yes Grapevine might've been the easiest tournament but it is also the first tournament, which means teams don't have the time to build chemistry. If teams like Hebron KL, Hebron LB, Greenhill LW, Greenhill KR, etc. are making it to the bid rounds at better tournaments such as Greenhill, Meadows, and St. Marks, that just proves the beginning was a rough start but not an accurate assessment of their skill. 

 

Also, one team I see that isn't here is Woodlands MR - they just got the bid at Michigan. 

Also, Elmer mentioned this but I don't know why Coppell DR wasn't on the original addendum to the list. 

Also, two LASA teams got bids at Grapevine. 

 

 

 

i dont even know you my g lets chill out with the slander. let's keep two things in mind regarding disclosure - 1) nobody has a right to it and disclosure comes from an urban privileged perspective; 2) im too lazy for the wiki - my email is zacharyhuffman701@gmail.com if you have any disclosure questions. i tend to have a hard time remembering past 2NR's so my bad on that. get over it.

In reference to the critique of my debate style, keep in mind that I am literally the only person that writes any blocks on my team because we're too poor to hire prep coaches. These graduated people haven't seen me debate in a hot minute so I don't think they can attest to my skills but I can assure you we've gotten better since last year.

This whole thread is sprinkled with elitism. Just wait to see NL HH in the 2nd semester and next year on the NDT circuit

 

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i dont even know you my g lets chill out with the slander. let's keep two things in mind regarding disclosure - 1) nobody has a right to it and disclosure comes from an urban privileged perspective; 2) im too lazy for the wiki - my email is zacharyhuffman701@gmail.com if you have any disclosure questions. i tend to have a hard time remembering past 2NR's so my bad on that. get over it.

 

Just disclose. It literally takes like 5 minutes and you can easily do it after each debate or at least after every tournament. There's not a right to disclosure, but you probably shouldn't be taking advantage of other debaters by seeing what they've disclosed when you won't at least do the same. If you have a problem remembering past 2NRs there's a super easy solution to that: use your wiki.

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