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DogeDuck

Framework against Ks

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I have had a fairly good year year in debate for it being my first year, but this is something I am still struggle with. I am sorta of starting to get it, but I still have a few questions

 

1. What is a precise definition of framework? I have heard so many different things I am not entirely sure what to believe.

 

2. How do you as the aff argue framework against a Neg team running a K?

 

3. Does it matter if I concede framework on the K if I am already beating the link, impact, and alt on the flow?

Edited by DogeDuck

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I have had a fairly good year year in debate for it being my first year, but this is something I am still struggle with. I am sorta of starting to get it, but I still have a few questions

 

1. What is a precise definition of framework? I have heard so many different things I am not entirely sure what to believe.

 

2. How do you as the aff argue framework against a Neg team running a K?

 

3. Does it matter if I concede framework on the K if I am already beating the link, impact, and alt on the flow?

1. Framework is an instrumental defense of some action that you, as the aff or neg, decide to defend in the course of the debate. For example, the affirmative team might run a kritikal affirmative and the 1NC gets up and reads a framework shell with an interpretation that argues that the 1AC should propose a policy plan or have a defense of the USFG in their affirmative. There are numerous interpretations for framework. 

 

2. The affirmative can answer a negative framework in multiple ways. Usually, the 2ac will have frontlines to most common 1NC frameworks, but a typical you want to preemptively use your 1AC against possible frameworks that could be read.

 

3. I wouldn't concede FW if I were in a debate.  

Edited by beck9696

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To elaborate on 3, It depends on what their framework argument is. If their interpretation is that the judge should evaluate in-round discourse instead of hypothetical plans, conceding it would mean your Aff plan and impacts don't mean anything.

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For 3, a simple 2ac A2 framework (assuming you read a policy aff) is "We get to weigh the aff against the K - Key to check 8 minutes of time skew, provide policy education, and preserve fairness". Quick, simple, and if you need to, you can blow it up in the 1ar

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For 3, a simple 2ac A2 framework (assuming you read a policy aff) is "We get to weigh the aff against the K - Key to check 8 minutes of time skew, provide policy education, and preserve fairness". Quick, simple, and if you need to, you can blow it up in the 1ar

In a framework for being able to weigh the Aff against the K, would it be a good idea to include util?

Edited by DogeDuck

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In a framework for being able to weigh the Aff against the K, would it be a good idea to include util?

I mean, I think that's a method of how the aff gets weighed as opposed to if the aff gets weighed. The short theory argument above is a response to "fiar isn't real, evaluate the k before the aff". If you don't win that debate, util wouldnt matter because voting aff wouldnt do anything. Assuming you do win that debate, yes, util would be good, assuming you read typical nuke war / extinction impacts.

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1. Simply put T against a neg team, you claim that the argument they run is bad for x and y reasons and as a result the judge should either reject the argument or the team.

2. Wigenback 11

3. Depends on the round, keep in mind if your FW shell is reject the team you can drop your case and go full framework, I have won a lot of rounds doing this :P

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1. Simply put T against a neg team, you claim that the argument they run is bad for x and y reasons and as a result the judge should either reject the argument or the team.

2. Wigenback 11

3. Depends on the round, keep in mind if your FW shell is reject the team you can drop your case and go full framework, I have won a lot of rounds doing this :P

Wigenback 11? May I see this card?

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if your FW shell is reject the team you can drop your case and go full framework, I have won a lot of rounds doing this :P

 

I would just add my 2 cents for DogeDuck by saying to be careful who you do this in front of. This basically amounts to "kritiks are illegitimate", and there is a wide variance in how well this will be received, depending on the culture of your circuit. 

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I would just add my 2 cents for DogeDuck by saying to be careful who you do this in front of. This basically amounts to "kritiks are illegitimate", and there is a wide variance in how well this will be received, depending on the culture of your circuit. 

My circuit is more traditional and policy oriented, but Kritiks are still accepted. Probably going to avoid running "kritiks are illegitimate" in that case. 

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Hey, does anyone happen to have a case idea or a case itself for the new policy resolution for next year? 

This is off-topic but here's part of some advice I was giving to someone who messaged me for help:

 

Throughout the year, I'd have a big Aff, a small Aff, and a lay Aff.

 

By big Aff, I mean a common one on the topic that accesses high-magnitude impacts like the economy, global warming, hegemony, et cetera. The pro is that you are harder to beat with topicality and disadvantages. The con is that you're easier to beat with Kritiks and CPs. Here are some examples:

-Funding STEM education.

-Standardized testing.

-Career training.

-Straight-up give the schools more money.

 

By small Aff I mean something you think your opponents won't see coming, usually with specific or ongoing impacts. The pro is that you're harder to beat with Kritiks and Counterplans. The con is that you're easier to beat with T and DAs. Here are some examples:

-Mental illness.

-LGBT or disability rights.

-Extra-curricular activities.

-Funding art/music.

 

A lay Affirmative can be in any of those areas. You just want something you can read in front of the "mom judge." I'd recommend a slow, well-built case about how the education system is teaching us to be factory workers.

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This basically amounts to "kritiks are illegitimate", 

Generally speaking thats what most FW shells are, this is just a rejection of the team rather than the argument. 

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Generally speaking thats what most FW shells are, this is just a rejection of the team rather than the argument.

 

On paper that's true; I should have probably worded my post differently. I just mean that a lot of judges are unlikely to be sympathetic to the argument that a team should lose for running a K.

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Your three questions:

 

1. What is a precise definition of framework? I have heard so many different things I am not entirely sure what to believe.

 

2. How do you as the aff argue framework against a Neg team running a K?

 

3. Does it matter if I concede framework on the K if I am already beating the link, impact, and alt on the flow?

 

 

Here are answers to two of your questions from someone who coached college debate pretty successfully (whatever that means):

 

AT: What is framework?

 

Framework is the theory of how the ballot works.  Framework is a decision-calculous.  Its a means to evaluate the argument.  It functions like criteria does in Lincoln-Douglas or at least should.  

 

AT: Conceding framework:

 

More theory is really the best way to create offense on the K, that you can win definitively.

 

Conceding framework makes your aff go away in terms of impact in the debate.

 

There is a distinction between offense and defense on a K that you may not be getting.  You need to pick and choose based on offense and defense strategically often.

 

Your best bet in some respect is impact turning the K with your Aff impacts.  You need to understand this specifically.  Also, the K may be answering your impacts either at the level of solvency turn or assumption, which can make this difficult.

Edited by nathan_debate

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This is off-topic but here's part of some advice I was giving to someone who messaged me for help:

 

Throughout the year, I'd have a big Aff, a small Aff, and a lay Aff.

 

By big Aff, I mean a common one on the topic that accesses high-magnitude impacts like the economy, global warming, hegemony, et cetera. The pro is that you are harder to beat with topicality and disadvantages. The con is that you're easier to beat with Kritiks and CPs. Here are some examples:

-Funding STEM education.

-Standardized testing.

-Career training.

-Straight-up give the schools more money.

 

By small Aff I mean something you think your opponents won't see coming, usually with specific or ongoing impacts. The pro is that you're harder to beat with Kritiks and Counterplans. The con is that you're easier to beat with T and DAs. Here are some examples:

-Mental illness.

-LGBT or disability rights.

-Extra-curricular activities.

-Funding art/music.

 

A lay Affirmative can be in any of those areas. You just want something you can read in front of the "mom judge." I'd recommend a slow, well-built case about how the education system is teaching us to be factory workers.

 

nigga

do u have a case or not...thats what i asked for...

Edited by rishabhgulati123
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do u have a case or not...thats what i asked for...

1. You asked for "a case idea or a case itself."

2. That's not what this thread is about.

3. I was just sharing ideas.

4. No, I haven't cut an Aff for education.

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nigga

do u have a case or not...thats what i asked for...

 

If you're just planning on stealing an aff and not cutting it yourself, then just wait till the end of summer when all the camps release their files, you'll have it all blocked out and stuff

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