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tommy949

Rutgers finals video taken down

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What's that reason?

One of the teams involved doesn't want the round posted. Given what took place, i really don't blame them

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One of the teams involved doesn't want the round posted. Given what took place, i really don't blame them

Do we know which team? Whichever team asked to take down the round would make what was said interesting or ironic.

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If anyone's worried about losing access to the video again, I've downloaded the round and will reupload it if it goes down, though perhaps with a password.

I wasn't able to watch the livestream but I really do want to see the round.  I know that the teams don't want the video posted publically, so do you think you could pm it to me?  Thanks!

awesleycarter@gmail.com

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Do we know which team? Whichever team asked to take down the round would make what was said interesting or ironic.

Most people are saying Georgetown; I haven't had that confirmed by any reliable source. 

 

To be honest, while I think it's a shame that people won't be able to watch the round for the purposes of education and dialogue, on a more basic level I'm happy that it's taken down. I would rather the ugliness of that round not be permanently visible, especially for the sake of those involved. It's done what it needed to do in shattering the status quo, and it's better for Georgetown/their loved ones to not ever have to relive that round.

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Most people are saying Georgetown; I haven't had that confirmed by any reliable source. 

 

To be honest, while I think it's a shame that people won't be able to watch the round for the purposes of education and dialogue, on a more basic level I'm happy that it's taken down. I would rather the ugliness of that round not be permanently visible, especially for the sake of those involved. It's done what it needed to do in shattering the status quo, and it's better for Georgetown/their loved ones to not ever have to relive that round.

Yeah I heard it was Rutgers, but likewise, I have no way to confirm it.

 

I agree that the round should have been taken off of youtube, but I think it should be left for other debaters to see. The only reason I want it off of youtube is so we don't have a repeat of CEDA 2014 Finals, but I feel like debaters should be able to know what happens/can happen in the activity that they choose to participate in.

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Yeah I heard it was Rutgers, but likewise, I have no way to confirm it.

 

I agree that the round should have been taken off of youtube, but I think it should be left for other debaters to see. The only reason I want it off of youtube is so we don't have a repeat of CEDA 2014 Finals, but I feel like debaters should be able to know what happens/can happen in the activity that they choose to participate in.

Very good point about CEDA 14. I should have mentioned that too

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If anyone's worried about losing access to the video again, I've downloaded the round and will reupload it if it goes down, though perhaps with a password.

I'm still very worried, could you send it to me? tehreeljaumsvernin@gmail.com

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Maybe it's better that it stays down. The media hates debate when it isn't what everyone assumes it is. I feel like they would hate it especially so in this context. If anything, reupload with password, distribute only by PM on cross-x

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Frankly, I feel that it would almost be a good thing if there were public backlash against this. The use of cruel and abusive tactics shouldn't be hidden or protected by the community. That's my motivation for letting people view the round privately. I think it's important that people learn from this and that consensuses on what practices are acceptable for performance teams to use be established. It's very tempting to take this reasoning further and make the Youtube video public. My main concern is that if the video were public, it could potentially negatively effect Georgetown's future. After that round, I don't care about Rutgers.

Edited by Chaos
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Having access to debate is a prerequisite to anything regarding debate. As I said in the other thread, if school admins pick up on this, this could cause a lot of programs to quickly shut down. While it may be good to let the policy community see the round, it likely would not be the best to let it spread beyond that.

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Having access to debate is a prerequisite to anything regarding debate. As I said in the other thread, if school admins pick up on this, this could cause a lot of programs to quickly shut down. While it may be good to let the policy community see the round, it likely would not be the best to let it spread beyond that.

Yeah, I agree with everything said here. The debate space is not inevitable, and I think we forget that a lot. This is ultimately something that people willingly choose to devote their time and money to, and we ought to keep that in mind making decisions about when/how to act upon the community.

Edited by Nonegfiat
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The implications of a public video may be significantly harmful, but if disagreeable rounds are hidden from public eye, and appealing rounds (to the non-debate community) are showcased, that would be a promotion of a false reality - essentially a false image of what discourse could be tolerated in a debate round. But considering the potential costs, it really does not seem like the non-debate community would generally react positively to the words uttered by Rutgers in that round.

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I personally didn't get to see the Finals Live, but I hear a lot of talk about this. What happened within this round, that made such an impact to close the video.

Rutgers ran a black humor argument that was controversial

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Rutgers ran a black humor argument that was controversial

 

This is an understatement.

 

As always, Nick is on the money. 

 

What Tommy said is technically true, but it doesn't convey the magnitude of what happened, or provide DebateForLife with enough information to be able to follow or join the discussions we've been having, so allow me to give my take.

 

As you might expect, Georgetown read a policy aff. The 1NC was about eight minutes of performance, one minute of 'no plans' fw. The performance consisted of a comedy roast at Georgetown's expense, without their consent. In front of an audience of peers and hundreds more on the livestream, Rutgers made jokes about Ezra and Natalie's physical appearances, and they were visibly uncomfortable throughout. Rutgers also stepped out into the crowd of spectators and gave other debaters the opportunity to roast Georgetown.

 

Ezra got up in the 2AC, read his standard answers to the no plans stuff, then made some analytical responses to the performance, most notably talking about how he found it to be violent, being that he's always been insecure in his body and it was distressing for him to have his appearance made fun of like that.

 

Rutger's argument was pretty sophisticated and nuanced, talking about the fracture in the community, and the exclusionary behavior of Georgetown, including refusing to speak to Rutgers in the hall, and refusing to disclose their aff. They argued that it was necessary for white people to learn what it's like to feel uncomfortable in their bodies in the debate space, because black people are made to feel that way in the squo, in part due to some of Georgetown's practices.

 

The 1NR dialed things up a notch, devolving at one point into a string of angry insults towards Natalie, no longer in the spirit of a roast, and rejoicing in the fact that Georgetown's mothers would be hurt watching the recording of their children being made fun of.

 

Rutgers ended up winning the round on a 4-1 decision. In the view of many people, Rutgers won the framework argument. So the outcome of the round has led to questions and controversy about whether what they did was violent, whether it should be permitted, whether it was an effective vehicle for their message, whether it was good for the community, all sorts of things.

Edited by Nonegfiat
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