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Nonegfiat

Who's gonna win the TOC?

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My bet is MBA KR. If not them then almost certainly Peninsula TW.

 

If they both drop, it's gonna be GBN JL or McDonough JN

 

I'm personally rooting for Broad Run PN (best team from my area, still hunting for their second bid. Great debaters and very friendly) or LASA MS (the 2N is a great guy, plus I am forever grateful that they opensource). And of course, if Cabot BS gets another bid I'll be rooting for them too!

 

 

edit: Georgetown Day BS is actually the best team from my area, but they don't go to locals and I've never faced them or met them. So I don't really have a reason to cheer them on.

Edited by Nonegfiat

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I'm rooting for McDonogh not only because they are great people, but also because seeing a K Team win the TOC would be amazing. MBA KR, in my mind, is tied with Peninsula TW, and most of their face-offs have been very close. I would also think LASA MS has a shot at it, as they're very good and very smart debaters.

 

Some people that I feel, though likely will not win or final, have the potential to go deep/people need to look out for: South Eugene LS, Lindale DT, & Heritage Hall DV.

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McDonough JN was in the Michigan K lab, and so were you if I'm not mistaken? I went to MNDI this summer. I hope this isn't creepy but you keep showing up on my "people you may know" on Facebook.

 

Anyway yeah, I agree about those three teams, especially South Eugene LS. Also Woodward AH. Didn't they beat Peninsula at Emory? Not that many people beat Peninsula. They could end up going deep.

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LASA MS will lose simply because they'll run their K aff against a K team that decides to run T. At least that is my plan on debating them since they refuse to run Ks against anyone they think will run T.

 

MBA KR will probably lose earlier than y'all think, and so will Peninsula. Why? Because people expect them to win, and that pisses off the Afro Pessimists. McDonogh will drop which ever one wins when they hit in Quarters (don't know why, but I feel like MBA KR will hit Peninsula TW in quarters), but I think Lindale will then drop McDonogh in finals.

 

edited because I forgot how to complete a sentence coherently.

Edited by Benny

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McDonough JN was in the Michigan K lab, and so were you if I'm not mistaken? I went to MNDI this summer. I hope this isn't creepy but you keep showing up on my "people you may know" on Facebook.

 

Anyway yeah, I agree about those three teams, especially South Eugene LS. Also Woodward AH. Didn't they beat Peninsula at Emory? Not that many people beat Peninsula. They could end up going deep.

Never feel bad about adding random debaters on facebook. I'm friends with Dan Bannister because of this.

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LASA MS will lose simply because they'll run their K aff against a K team that decides to run T. At least that is my plan on debating them since they refuse to run Ks against anyone they think will run T.

 

MBA KR will probably lose earlier than y'all think, and so will Peninsula. Why? Because people expect them to win, and that pisses off the Afro Pessimists. McDonogh will drop which ever one wins when they hit in Quarters (don't know why, but I feel like MBA KR will hit Peninsula TW in quarters), but I think Lindale will then drop McDonogh in finals.

 

edited because I forgot how to complete a sentence coherently.

 

You think Lindale's gonna win the TOC? They're great but that would not be my call. And I think you make a legitimate point about extreme-tier teams under-performing. I wouldn't be totally shocked if neither of those teams made it to finals like you say. 

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You think Lindale's gonna win the TOC? They're great but that would not be my call. And I think you make a legitimate point about extreme-tier teams under-performing. I wouldn't be totally shocked if neither of those teams made it to finals like you say. 

If I'm not mistaken "Framework makes the game work" is proven to win rounds at TOC. I feel that Lindale is a strong team simply because they don't forget the basics or try to show off their fancy new "insert buzz words and either baudrillard or obscure afro pessimist cards here" K. Lindale has a history of beating good teams such as the aforementioned LASA MS. They definitely aren't as good as many of the contenders, but I feel as though judges like their simplistic* style of argumentation, coupled with the fact that they work much harder than teams that already assume they win for walking through the door. I don't think winning the TOC is guaranteed, they are definitely underdogs, but I think the upset is a possibility. Its functionally the same reason I tell people I can win state in Texas. 

 

A.) at prestigious tournaments judges are less likely to vote on name

B.) small teams are less predictable

C.) fuck anyone that tells us we can't win because we didn't go to UMich 7wk or pay Krakoff to write our stuff or whatever generic excuse people use to put themselves down and devalue their opponents' accomplishments this week.

 

Yes, these teams are good and win quite frequently, but no one is unbeatable. EX: Reagan SS beating SFA EO in octos at state last year, or more recently when Oklahoma JW put the "L" in Georgetown KL.

 

In the words of Sam Gustavson, "The math might not have seen it coming, but for anyone who saw how much work he [Darius White] put in, it was obvious from a mile away."

 

*simplistic meaning easy to follow. They don't read cutting edge arguments just to make themselves seem like the smartest kids in the room. You don't need to be well read or from the same lab as them to clash with their arguments.

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If I'm not mistaken "Framework makes the game work" is proven to win rounds at TOC. I feel that Lindale is a strong team simply because they don't forget the basics or try to show off their fancy new "insert buzz words and either baudrillard or obscure afro pessimist cards here" K. Lindale has a history of beating good teams such as the aforementioned LASA MS. They definitely aren't as good as many of the contenders, but I feel as though judges like their simplistic* style of argumentation, coupled with the fact that they work much harder than teams that already assume they win for walking through the door. I don't think winning the TOC is guaranteed, they are definitely underdogs, but I think the upset is a possibility. Its functionally the same reason I tell people I can win state in Texas. 

 

A.) at prestigious tournaments judges are less likely to vote on name

B.) small teams are less predictable

C.) fuck anyone that tells us we can't win because we didn't go to UMich 7wk or pay Krakoff to write our stuff or whatever generic excuse people use to put themselves down and devalue their opponents' accomplishments this week.

 

Yes, these teams are good and win quite frequently, but no one is unbeatable. EX: Reagan SS beating SFA EO in octos at state last year, or more recently when Oklahoma JW put the "L" in Georgetown KL.

 

In the words of Sam Gustavson, "The math might not have seen it coming, but for anyone who saw how much work he [Darius White] put in, it was obvious from a mile away."

 

*simplistic meaning easy to follow. They don't read cutting edge arguments just to make themselves seem like the smartest kids in the room. You don't need to be well read or from the same lab as them to clash with their arguments.

I think the reason that I'm hesitant to say Lindale will take it all is the fact that of them is a sophomore, and experience will outweigh in high pressure situations. In that case, I'm putting my money on teams who've gone deep at the TOC before. 

 

Also, Hendrickson PW? Elan is too good. 

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I think the reason that I'm hesitant to say Lindale will take it all is the fact that of them is a sophomore, and experience will outweigh in high pressure situations. In that case, I'm putting my money on teams who've gone deep at the TOC before. 

 

Also, Hendrickson PW? Elan is too good. 

Ronak is a junior and Jonas is a senior. Lindale has beaten Hendrickson PW. UT and UH saw 3-0s for Lindale.

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Ronak is a junior and Jonas is a senior. Lindale has beaten Hendrickson PW. UT and UH saw 3-0s for Lindale.

Huh. I suppose I'll give more credence to your argument now.

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Huh. I suppose I'll give more credence to your argument now.

I can't afford to go to tournaments, so I just follow all of my favorite teams along with the main contenders. This way I can map out what their strengths and weaknesses are to determine match ups.

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My bet is MBA KR. If not them then almost certainly Peninsula TW.

 

If they both drop, it's gonna be GBN JL or McDonough JN

 

I'm personally rooting for Broad Run PN (best team from my area, still hunting for their second bid. Great debaters and very friendly) or LASA MS (the 2N is a great guy, plus I am forever grateful that they opensource). And of course, if Cabot BS gets another bid I'll be rooting for them too!

 

 

edit: Georgetown Day BS is actually the best team from my area, but they don't go to locals and I've never faced them or met them. So I don't really have a reason to cheer them on.

+1 For Ezra and Mason from LASA, they taught me a ton of what I know, I used to debate with them. They're probably (along with Jonas and Ronak from Lindale) the best debaters in Texas right now. I also think Sodders and Saddiqi from Reagan are gonna do well at TOC, they've consistently kicked ass all year.

 

LASA MS will lose simply because they'll run their K aff against a K team that decides to run T. At least that is my plan on debating them since they refuse to run Ks against anyone they think will run T.

Ezra and Mason are straight policy kids dude. They run Taiwan and BIT, aside from that one time at UT they ran Hauntology. They just happen to be better at straight policy than more or less anyone.

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+1 For Ezra and Mason from LASA, they taught me a ton of what I know, I used to debate with them. They're probably (along with Jonas and Ronak from Lindale) the best debaters in Texas right now. I also think Sodders and Saddiqi from Reagan are gonna do well at TOC, they've consistently kicked ass all year.

 

Ezra and Mason are straight policy kids dude. They run Taiwan and BIT, aside from that one time at UT they ran Hauntology. They just happen to be better at straight policy than more or less anyone.

 

I disagree that Ezra and Mason are the best debaters in Texas now. Definitively a top 3 Texas team, but you have Greenhill KS and Kinkaid BR. I don't think Lindale DT is particularly fantastic compared to any of those three teams. Having beaten them this year, they seem to collapse against new strategies which leads me to be inclined towards saying they won't win the TOC, or do well in elims at all because people will constantly be breaking new strats.

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+1 For Ezra and Mason from LASA, they taught me a ton of what I know, I used to debate with them. They're probably (along with Jonas and Ronak from Lindale) the best debaters in Texas right now. I also think Sodders and Saddiqi from Reagan are gonna do well at TOC, they've consistently kicked ass all year.

 

Ezra and Mason are straight policy kids dude. They run Taiwan and BIT, aside from that one time at UT they ran Hauntology. They just happen to be better at straight policy than more or less anyone.

Nah, they run Specters of Communism against K teams.

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I disagree that Ezra and Mason are the best debaters in Texas now. Definitively a top 3 Texas team, but you have Greenhill KS and Kinkaid BR.

Fair, but if you look at their records, rn LASA MS is beating Greenhill KS, dunno about Kinkaid though.

I don't think Lindale DT is particularly fantastic compared to any of those three teams. Having beaten them this year, they seem to collapse against new strategies which leads me to be inclined towards saying they won't win the TOC, or do well in elims at all because people will constantly be breaking new strats.

Fair enough, they do seem to be a very straightforward team. What school are you from, may I ask? I'mnot trying to discredit you or throw shade I'm just wondering who Jonas and Ronak dropped to.

Also, anyone have any guesses as to who wins TOC in LD? My bet is on Richard Cook from Strake Jesuit, but I'm rooting for my buddy Nelson Okunlola from Earl Warren even though it probably won't happen sadly. Also that Evan Engel dude from HW is pretty good.

Edited by AQuackDebater

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Nah, they run Specters of Communism against K teams.

I only know of them running that aff like two or three times, I just know because I talked to Yao-Yao while they were writing it. But I mean I could be wrong and I havent talked to Ezra since right before Isodore Newman.

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I disagree that Ezra and Mason are the best debaters in Texas now. Definitively a top 3 Texas team, but you have Greenhill KS and Kinkaid BR. I don't think Lindale DT is particularly fantastic compared to any of those three teams. Having beaten them this year, they seem to collapse against new strategies which leads me to be inclined towards saying they won't win the TOC, or do well in elims at all because people will constantly be breaking new strats.

Lindale beat Kinkaid at UH, though I will concede that LASA beat Lindale at Izzy, I'll have to check and see what happened at UT though. I'm not sure where the Greenhill bandwagon came from all of a sudden, but that might just be me not paying attention. When did you debate Lindale? They have dropped only a handful of ballots since they decided they could qualify to TOC after they dropped in out rounds of KCKCC. Grapevine wasn't their best tournament either but again, that is before they really woke up.

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I'm rooting for McDonogh not only because they are great people, but also because seeing a K Team win the TOC would be amazing. MBA KR, in my mind, is tied with Peninsula TW, and most of their face-offs have been very close. I would also think LASA MS has a shot at it, as they're very good and very smart debaters.

 

Some people that I feel, though likely will not win or final, have the potential to go deep/people need to look out for: South Eugene LS, Lindale DT, & Heritage Hall DV.

Kyler where'd you get your bid?Just curious

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Lindale beat Kinkaid at UH, though I will concede that LASA beat Lindale at Izzy, I'll have to check and see what happened at UT though.

At UT Ezra and Mason dropped in semis to Heritage Hall, I think. Sodders and Saddiqi dropped to Lindale. Then Lindale took finals. Sodders and Saddiqi also dropped to them in bid round at UH, I know because it happened while I was a Churchill, my judge was Michaelson from Reagan and he was laughing about it in my round.

I'm not sure where the Greenhill bandwagon came from all of a sudden, but that might just be me not paying attention.

I mean KS is a very good team, it is Greenhill after all. I just think that their not really much better than the average NatCir team. Same goes for Highland Park CM and most of Grapevine's teams this year, all the usual suspects for TOC just aren't really making much of a showing. It's a good year for upstarts.

When did you debate Lindale? They have dropped only a handful of ballots since they decided they could qualify to TOC after they dropped in out rounds of KCKCC. Grapevine wasn't their best tournament either but again, that is before they really woke up.

Also correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Little Rock Central CC have their two bids?

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Cabot was in finals of Izzy in LA.

Oh damn well done Kyler. I'd have paid to see that round.

Edited by AQuackDebater

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Also correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Little Rock Central CC have their two bids?

I meant the prelims of UT. I know out rounds, (I chilled with Alex the entire time, and I follow him religiously with pairings for UH) I was supposed to be in them lol.

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I meant the prelims of UT. I know out rounds, (I chilled with Alex the entire time, and I follow him religiously with pairings for UH) I was supposed to be in them lol.

Yeeeeah that honestly sucks that you couldn't break dude. 

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Yeeeeah that honestly sucks that you couldn't break dude. 

Catch me in out rounds of the NDT one day, how about that?

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