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winter break- state of the china topic

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So I listened to the latest HSImpact podcast and they were musing about the topic so far- since its break I thought it would be a good idea to take stock of what's happened so far. some things to talk about:

has this topic become too big

why arent people winning topicality (no qpq/qpq, diplomatic engagement interps, etc.)

favorite aff

most abusive/worst aff youve debated or heard of

favorite neg position

worst/most abusive neg position youve debated or heard of

what good da's are left other than relations type ones

is politics viable (outside of rider da's)

also other stuff bc I know i'm missing things

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Has the topic become too big? Maybe. It was pretty big from the start, so as people break new affs yeah it's probably getting too big

I can tell you why I dont win T. I have no idea how to talk about topicality for 5 minutes in the 2nr, especially something like qpq

Favorite aff, no idea. Maybe taiwan gb

Worst aff- anything which says that lowering export controls counts as substantially increasing engagement. Especially MES. These are the definition of effects topical in my opinion

Not sure what my least favorie neg position is

Good da's- appeasement (i think trump makes the link a lot better, at least until inauguration. But i can think of ways to spin it even after inauguration), chinese politics, im sure there are lots of good case specific ones left

For politics, i want to try trump infrastructure agenda ptx later this year but i have no idea whether that will work. Plus chinese ptx is always viable

 

EDIT: forgot favorite neg position: Baudrillard!

Edited by Nonegfiat

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So I listened to the latest HSImpact podcast and they were musing about the topic so far- since its break I thought it would be a good idea to take stock of what's happened so far. some things to talk about:

has this topic become too big - yes but considering that someone proposed pretty much the same topic with the added clause of military engagement towards russia , i dont think that the people over at nsda are getting the point. 

why arent people winning topicality (no qpq/qpq, diplomatic engagement interps, etc.)  - no idea

favorite aff -OBOR seems lit

most abusive/worst aff youve debated or heard of- CHUSTIA

favorite neg position- antiblackness

worst/most abusive neg position youve debated or heard of- workability spec

what good da's are left other than relations type ones- china ptx

is politics viable (outside of rider da's) - china ptx

also other stuff bc I know i'm missing things

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So I listened to the latest HSImpact podcast and they were musing about the topic so far- since its break I thought it would be a good idea to take stock of what's happened so far. some things to talk about:

has this topic become too big

 

Yes. I have not hit a SCS Aff yet.

 

why arent people winning topicality (no qpq/qpq, diplomatic engagement interps, etc.)

 

Because it's seen as pathetic and ingenuine to read T QPQ every round. It's become a meme.

 

favorite aff

 

I think human rights Affs are interesting, Uyghurs or otherwise.

 

most abusive/worst aff youve debated or heard of

 

Hydro-thermal vents recycled from last year.

 

favorite neg position

 

Japan DA

 

worst/most abusive neg position youve debated or heard of

 

Really outdated advantage CPs.

 

what good da's are left other than relations type ones

 

Appeasement, tech theft/espionage, honestly impact turns are better than most DAs.

 

is politics viable (outside of rider da's)

 

I hope not.

 

also other stuff bc I know i'm missing things

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most abusive/worst aff youve debated or heard of

 

So I listened to the latest HSImpact podcast and they were musing about the topic so far- since its break I thought it would be a good idea to take stock of what's happened so far. some things to talk about:

has this topic become too big

why arent people winning topicality (no qpq/qpq, diplomatic engagement interps, etc.)

favorite aff

most abusive/worst aff youve debated or heard of

favorite neg position

worst/most abusive neg position youve debated or heard of

what good da's are left other than relations type ones

is politics viable (outside of rider da's)

also other stuff bc I know i'm missing things

 

I HATE THAT THERE'S A MILLION TEAMS READING PESKY BAUDRILLARD AFFS. AND MOST OF THEM DON'T EVEN ARTICULATE IT PROPERLY.  BAUDRILLARD MORE LIKE NO-DRILLARD. JUST STOP. PLS. SHEESH.

 

~end rant~

 

Glad I got that out of my system.

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most abusive/worst aff youve debated or heard of

 

 

I HATE THAT THERE'S A MILLION TEAMS READING PESKY BAUDRILLARD AFFS. AND MOST OF THEM DON'T EVEN ARTICULATE IT PROPERLY.  BAUDRILLARD MORE LIKE NO-DRILLARD. JUST STOP. PLS. SHEESH.

 

~end rant~

 

Glad I got that out of my system.

CONTENTION 1 IS THE HARMS

 

WHEN I SPEAK OF TIME, THE FACT IS IT IS NOT YET

 

CONTENTION 2 IS SOLVENCY

 

THE POINT OF OUR AFF IS TO SAY RANDOM STUFF SO AS TO DISRUPT THE DRIVE TO RENDER THE WORLD TRANSPARENT

 

etc etc etc

 

I've seen this a bunch too. It certainly feels like baudrillard is the trendy k author right now doesnt it

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So I listened to the latest HSImpact podcast and they were musing about the topic so far- since its break I thought it would be a good idea to take stock of what's happened so far. some things to talk about:

has this topic become too big

why arent people winning topicality (no qpq/qpq, diplomatic engagement interps, etc.)

favorite aff

Idk, i feel as if this topic is rich with aff ground; it's pretty neat tbh.

most abusive/worst aff youve debated or heard of

DBZ aff- 3 ADVs (three wishes, three ADVs, get it?) are judge gets a million dollars, aff wins the round, and we solve all the worlds problems. The thing that pisses me off the most is that the team that runs it doesn't really disclose stuff.

favorite neg position

Probably timecube or disclosure theory, jk.  I really love running t or japan da, but cap k is probably a fav.

worst/most abusive neg position youve debated or heard of

definitely qpq good/bad

what good da's are left other than relations type ones

Japan and appeasment are actually great, you just have to win the brink debate

 

Edited by Morganfreeman
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most abusive/worst aff youve debated or heard of

 

 

I HATE THAT THERE'S A MILLION TEAMS READING PESKY BAUDRILLARD AFFS. AND MOST OF THEM DON'T EVEN ARTICULATE IT PROPERLY.  BAUDRILLARD MORE LIKE NO-DRILLARD. JUST STOP. PLS. SHEESH.

 

~end rant~

 

Glad I got that out of my system.

:(

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has this topic become too big

It was enormous to start.

 

why arent people winning topicality (no qpq/qpq, diplomatic engagement interps, etc.)

Because they don't know how to debate T? If your aff is topical, it's not hard to win.

favorite aff

I like MPAs.

most abusive/worst aff youve debated or heard of

Probably Gulf of Aden coop. It's straight up military engagement.

favorite neg position

Chinese Politics disad (Xi good) and LOST or multilateral CP.

worst/most abusive neg position youve debated or heard of

Um, isn't the neg supposed to be abusive? I guess must be QPQ.

what good da's are left other than relations type ones

Well, considering the resolution, most DAs are relations. You've still got Japan, appeasement, Chinese Politics, Politics (to some extent), you could try Trump infrastructure.

is politics viable (outside of rider da's)

If you're willing to delve deep into Fox News, yes. Depends on how much research you're willing to do.

Edited by ani

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So I listened to the latest HSImpact podcast and they were musing about the topic so far- since its break I thought it would be a good idea to take stock of what's happened so far. some things to talk about:

has this topic become too big

  • I would be more inclined to say that the topic was too big from the beginning.

why arent people winning topicality (no qpq/qpq, diplomatic engagement interps, etc.)

  • See above. There are many reasonable ways to interpret the resolution with plenty of literature to support them.

favorite aff

  • The Uyghurs case has been the most evocative for me so far.

most abusive/worst aff youve debated or heard of

  • I've seen some military engagement cases that are questionably topical, but that seems to be more of a problem with the potential scope of the resolution than with the debaters.

favorite neg position

  • Orientalism is real. Some of the canned cases this year paint incredibly reductive images of China.

worst/most abusive neg position youve debated or heard of

  • "Engagement must/mustn't be quid pro quo." Dichotomous topicality arguments get old quickly.

what good da's are left other than relations type ones

  • "Good," and, "other than relations," are really going to limit your potential answers here. My instinct is to go with the general consensus on this thread and say Chinese Politics, but one could argue that that's still an indirect, effectual form of, "relations."

is politics viable (outside of rider da's)

  • Who knows? For better or for worse (and that's a debate I'm staying the heck out of), Trump's election defied a lot of basic political norms. It remains to be seen how policy debate will respond to that.

also other stuff bc I know i'm missing things

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So I listened to the latest HSImpact podcast and they were musing about the topic so far- since its break I thought it would be a good idea to take stock of what's happened so far. some things to talk about:

has this topic become too big

 

Yes. I have not hit a SCS Aff yet.

 

why arent people winning topicality (no qpq/qpq, diplomatic engagement interps, etc.)

 

Because it's seen as pathetic and ingenuine to read T QPQ every round. It's become a meme.

 

favorite aff

 

I think human rights Affs are interesting, Uyghurs or otherwise.

 

most abusive/worst aff youve debated or heard of

 

Hydro-thermal vents recycled from last year.

 

favorite neg position

 

Japan DA

 

worst/most abusive neg position youve debated or heard of

 

Really outdated advantage CPs.

 

what good da's are left other than relations type ones

 

Appeasement, tech theft/espionage, honestly impact turns are better than most DAs.

 

is politics viable (outside of rider da's)

 

I hope not.

 

also other stuff bc I know i'm missing things

 

 

What were some of the Human Rights cases you've seen?

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What were some of the Human Rights cases you've seen?

There was one about Uyghur rights. Google "Falun Gong organ harvesting."

 

Another was about labor exploitation of miners in Africa.

 

It shows up in appeasement DAs and condition CPs too.

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So I listened to the latest HSImpact podcast and they were musing about the topic so far- since its break I thought it would be a good idea to take stock of what's happened so far. some things to talk about:

has this topic become too big

why arent people winning topicality (no qpq/qpq, diplomatic engagement interps, etc.)

favorite aff

most abusive/worst aff youve debated or heard of

favorite neg position

worst/most abusive neg position youve debated or heard of

what good da's are left other than relations type ones

is politics viable (outside of rider da's)

also other stuff bc I know i'm missing things

1.) topic was too big from the start

 

2.) see 1. also I can't figure out how to go for 5 minutes of T without sounding like I'm being repetitive

 

3.) anything human rights or identity.

 

4.) one team decided to run a plan that fiated every member of the WTO agrees to liquidate their economies and be swallowed by AIIB.

 

5.) I'm a subscriber to the HR CP and Uyghur DA on the policy side, I enjoy many flavors of security as a K.

 

6.) "analytics are a voting issue because they can't be fact checked, even if they are warranted they are still opinions"

 

7.) I like the Uyghur DA as I said, but it's got a very generic link story. I'd say china politics is probably best. The rez being in the direction of the status quo makes it difficult to find stable DA ground in my opinion. This makes it very difficult to be a small school debater, especially in front of hard right judges.

 

8.) I feel like Trump will play some role in framing chinese politics DAs as well as agenda politics DAs.

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6.) "analytics are a voting issue because they can't be fact checked, even if they are warranted they are still opinions"

Those are some next-level mental gymnastics, especially if that claim was presented (as it appears to have been) analytically and not evidently.

 

I'll bite - what was the backstory here?

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Those are some next-level mental gymnastics, especially if that claim was presented (as it appears to have been) analytically and not evidently.

 

I'll bite - what was the backstory here?

They had a couple cards that said analytics were all opinions. I had said on the Russia CP that there was evidence out there that US-Russia relations were on the rise because of Putin and Trump. I had already turned the DA with evidence relating to space cooperation between China and Russia being historic turning points in relations as well. I spent like 10 seconds on the analytic in the 2AC. They spent 2 minutes in the block on it. If nothing else the time trade off was good. I got them to admit in CX that the CP solved none of the aff as well lol.

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has this topic become too big

it hasn't "become" too big per se, it was just way to big from the start I think.

why arent people winning topicality (no qpq/qpq, diplomatic engagement interps, etc.)

because the topic's huge. there are just very few affs that can't be framed as topical in some way or another.

favorite aff

i hit a eugenics k aff at UT a while back, wilcox and ableism/securitization of the body in IR. talked about the yousheng forced abortion laws in china, advocated a self examination of how we securitize bodies and erase them as sites of politics and resistance. fun stuff. (I will admit I shamelessly stole a lot of the evidence for my Ableism aff on the LD Cop topic for NovDec)

*EDIT* I actually realized the guy running that aff is on this thread yo Benny what it do

most abusive/worst aff youve debated or heard of

there's this necropolitics k aff floating around that I also hit at UT, talks about self-immolation and tibetan suicide. kind of terrible, the link chain to the topic is really bad. And there are some really weak attempts at foucault affs on this topic that make me wanna die. and there's a "Military tech coop" aff that tries to frame itself as science dip as opposed to military engagement which is terrible.

favorite neg position

Nietzsche K, BioPol/Foucault K. Straight up Heg DAs, DeDev. And of course Pan K with that spicy derrida decon alt.

worst/most abusive neg position youve debated or heard of

"T: Substantial means you must name a % increase." and of course language Ks are always trash.

what good da's are left other than relations type ones

I like appeasement, I also think there's some really good purely Heg DA's out there on this topic, both Heg good and heg bad. and I've run some sort of org crime DA on every topic, LD and CX, going back to oceans and handguns, respectively. rn I'm running triads and it's pretty fun.

is politics viable (outside of rider da's)

lol nope

Edited by pdfox0513

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why arent people winning topicality (no qpq/qpq, diplomatic engagement interps, etc.)

 

In my limited experience judging on this topic, this premise does not seem to be the case - people are often winning on T when it's in the 2nr, debaters just aren't going for it as often as they should. QPQ and diplo engagement seem to be not-so-great T arguments (and, as mentioned above, have even become memes) - but most judges seem to agree the topic is large and the way the topic has played out is one that has made judges sympathetic to calls for limitations on the topic.

 

Some speculation on why so few teams go for T in the 2nr:

- too many people see T as a "time suck" - and so they invest little, if any, time in the block on it.  

- so many of the top open teams are juniors and seniors who have exclusively debated on topics where basically everyone read either one of 4 or 5 policy AFFs or something critical - so they have zero experience with topics where T was a necessity for the negative against teams that read plans. 

- camps made the T debate on this topic seem more intimidating than it had to be. I know that many of you sat through entire lectures on the incredibly dense topics that T on this topic forces you to engage with - and maybe you left the lectures thinking "I am just going to read an aff that avoids this debate and not go for it on the negative - problem solved! back to researching god-awful disadvantages that won't link to most of the affs on this topic!" What constitutes engagement is, in fact, only a question that has to be as deep and complex as you want to make it - if your style of going for T is to go for "predictable limits are good" - you can do a passable job of going for T by winning (a) that your interpretation is predictable - which only requires understanding a subset of the engagement definitional literature and then ( B) that predictable limits outweigh whatever they're talking about. 

- like was said above - QPQ is a meme. Diplo engagement is 50-50 in terms of lit support, and doesn't have that great of an internal link into the Spurlock-style "limits outweigh everything" overviews high schoolers love to give. Hence, the poster children of T arguments on this topic aren't very good, but 2n's aren't willing to block out something else. 

- half the T arguments run on this topic are T-QPQ. AFFs have it blocked out. 

Again, this is speculation, and I only have limited experience, so take what I have to say with a grain of salt - but, from what I have observed, this seems pretty accurate. 

 

My advice: if you have a solid set of generics already put together, spend some time blocking out and practicing T arguments over winter break. It takes roughly 3 hours to become an expert on a single T argument - 2 hours of blocking it out, an hour of practicing going for the argument (granted, if you've never done this before, it will take longer the first few times - and this is only an estimated average). Pick four or five T arguments that encompass the majority of affs at your next tournament, do one a day, and you'll have plenty of time to play video games or watch OA or do whatever you kids do. Given the state of the topic, I think that, in terms of "added wins per hour of work," a time investment into working on T has a larger payoff than most other things an average 2N could be doing this break. (fine print: this is not the case for someone who doesn't already have a substantive negative strategy that they have been at least somewhat successful on - T is not always the best option, showing up to a tournament with only topicality will not produce many wins, but someone who already has a couple of good arguments already in the "tub" will probably benefit by also being able to go for T more than, say, also being able to go for [insert new but probably terrible DA/K here]). 

 

And, of course, teams should go for T more often against non-traditional AFFs that don't defend the topic (and go for framework less, and realize how bad most of their links to radical leftist args are, etc) - but i'll save that rant for another post. 

Edited by liampirate
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