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So... I don't know how to make a poll, but which region / state in the US is the most K heavy? In your opinion?

 

And as a follow up I guess, why do you think that some regions are more predisposed to Ks than others?

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Illinois is very K heavy.

 

For your second question, take a look at the demographics of Chicago vs. Missouri.  It's not that hard to figure out.

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Illinois is very K heavy.

 

For your second question, take a look at the demographics of Chicago vs. Missouri.  It's not that hard to figure out.

ATTN: nobody call me a racist

 

it seems to me like the majority of k debaters in my area don't rlly care / don't have any personal ties with the K affs they read; they just kinda do it. I dont have nearly the same respect for these guys as the people who run them bc they genuinely care about the issues.

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ATTN: nobody call me a racist

 

it seems to me like the majority of k debaters in my area don't rlly care / don't have any personal ties with the K affs they read; they just kinda do it. I dont have nearly the same respect for these guys as the people who run them bc they genuinely care about the issues.

I see where you're coming from, and it's bad at the level being so disinvested in the idea that all they do is read cards and don't do any reading of their own, but there is nothing wrong with reading an argument you don't believe in.  Rather, it shows an interest to understand opposing opinions rather than just rejecting them and reading framework like a lot of people do.  Now, I'm not saying that the people you're debating actually care, but it's something to think about.

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ATTN: nobody call me a racist

 

it seems to me like the majority of k debaters in my area don't rlly care / don't have any personal ties with the K affs they read; they just kinda do it. I dont have nearly the same respect for these guys as the people who run them bc they genuinely care about the issues.

 

You arent being a racist you are just being true. 

 

There are tons of debaters who use their identities just to win ballots but don't really care about their advocacies and in some cases perpetuate the same form of oppression they are kritiking. 

 

That being said I think "disconnected debating" isnt always a bad thing. Its really only an issue when it comes at the cost of other bodies. For example White kids reading a middle passage aff but not caring let alone doing anything for the black community. They are just using someone elses suffering for their ballot. 

 

Also just a btw: "ATTN: nobody call me a racist"

Saying that makes you look like you are saying something racist and tbh its better to be called a racist and learn from your mistakes than to tell peeps to not call you a racist. But anyways you're fine.

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Illinois is very K heavy.

 

For your second question, take a look at the demographics of Chicago vs. Missouri.  It's not that hard to figure out.

Unless you mean that there are more debaters from rich suburban or magnet schools influenced by college camps in Chicago, I'd ask for more detail there. With the possible slim exception of the Whitney Young/Walter Payton magnets, there's a mismatch between K schools and poor minority schools (and there aren't really any poor minority Chicago schools going to national circuit tournaments apart from the occasional unusual team stretching to go to something in the suburbs).

 

I'm more familiar with CDL than Chicago-area national circuit--which are the K-focused Chicago teams? I know Evanston, Whitney Young, Payton, and Homewood-Flossmoor are more K-heavy, and Northside, Lane Tech, Maine East, and the Glenbrooks are more policy-heavy. I don't know too much about other Chicago suburban teams (Oak Park, Niles North, Niles West, etc.).

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Unless you mean that there are more debaters from rich suburban or magnet schools influenced by college camps in Chicago, I'd ask for more detail there. With the possible slim exception of the Whitney Young/Walter Payton magnets, there's a mismatch between K schools and poor minority schools (and there aren't really any poor minority Chicago schools going to national circuit tournaments apart from the occasional unusual team stretching to go to something in the suburbs).

 

I'm more familiar with CDL than Chicago-area national circuit--which are the K-focused Chicago teams? I know Evanston, Whitney Young, Payton, and Homewood-Flossmoor are more K-heavy, and Northside, Lane Tech, Maine East, and the Glenbrooks are more policy-heavy. I don't know too much about other Chicago suburban teams (Oak Park, Niles North, Niles West, etc.).

I mean, yeah that's definitely a lot of it.  There's a higher concentration of people in Chicago than you can find anywhere in Kansas, Missouri, Idaho, etc.  There tends to be a greater flow of information because of that, and so K's have become popularized in a way that is not the case in a lot of other places, and then we tend to keep up with the latest fads (bifo, tuck and yang) a lot easier than more rural places.  Plus, a lot of kids (such as myself) go to schools that can't afford to keep up with a lot of politics.  Going with K's is much easier, which is why I personally became a "K hack."  I'm sure that would be true in a lot of rural areas like Kansas too, but because they don't have this concentration of people they don't have any coaches to learn from or judges to listen, which is not the case in Chicago.

 

Also, for the record, Oak Park is straight K's.  I think with all of our teams combined we have one team that consistently reads a policy aff :P

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Everywhere above (maybe Virginia) on the East Coast is pretty K heavy, so like Mid-Atlantic. More K heavy than I've seen in most other districts. If I'm (un)lucky, I'll hit more than one policy aff in prelims

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Everywhere above (maybe Virginia) on the East Coast is pretty K heavy, so like Mid-Atlantic. More K heavy than I've seen in most other districts. If I'm (un)lucky, I'll hit more than one policy aff in prelims

 

"Oh no! I hit an aff that actually links to my K!" 

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Everywhere above (maybe Virginia) on the East Coast is pretty K heavy, so like Mid-Atlantic. More K heavy than I've seen in most other districts. If I'm (un)lucky, I'll hit more than one policy aff in prelims

 

NOT PA. Teams still go for inherency and T. My partner and I are the only K team in the entire state :( 

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"Oh no! I hit an aff that actually links to my K!" 

Tbh at this point I'm much more used to debating K affs and my win rate is much much higher against them than against policy affs.

 

NOT PA. Teams still go for inherency and T. My partner and I are the only K team in the entire state :(

Maybe locally, but you were at Scranton and that was certainly majority K

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Maybe locally, but you were at Scranton and that was certainly majority K

Scranton and Pennsbury are the only PA tournaments with K debate. Also most of the pool at scranton were out of state. The only teams from PA at scranton were Pitt Central, Unionville and La Salle. 

But yea I didnt hit a traditional argument the entire tournament. 

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Missouri is definitely the most critical area in all of debate. (/s)

 

I think areas being more K heavy has a lot to do with the local judge pool. If you're somewhere like MO where most tournaments are 80% lay, reading Ks will fly over the heads of the judges (most of whom are still struggling to factor in any speech besides the 2AR).

Edited by Mummyhandgrenade

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Missouri is definitely the most critical area in all of debate. (/s)

 

I think areas being more K heavy has a lot to do with the local judge pool. If you're somewhere like MO where most tournaments are 80% lay, reading Ks will fly over the heads of the judges (most of whom are still struggling to factor in any speech besides the 2AR).

It's cultural too. CDL lower conferences have a lot of lay judges, but being part of a culture that says Ks are signs of experienced debate (rather than what they too often are, unusual arguments used to win rounds by confusion), the judges will just assume the K says what the teams say they do in the 2NR. And no, I'm not bitter because my top varsity team lost a final round where one of the judge's oral RFDs was "Well, Neg had more on the flow on the K after the 1AR, so I thought they were winning that argument."

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Illinois is very K heavy.

You know as well as I do that that is just not true. Chicago is less lay than a lot of the country, but not K. Save for a few HF teams, OPRF, and parts of the CDL, the circuit is extremely policy.

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You know as well as I do that that is just not true. Chicago is less lay than a lot of the country, but not K. Save for a few HF teams, OPRF, and parts of the CDL, the circuit is extremely policy.

I don't really think that's true.  I mean, there's not a lot of people who consistently go 1-off and/or are actually good at K's, but there are a lot of people who run K's.  That one tournament where I read aquaculture because I was with a new partner I hit a 1-off K every aff round.  And that was a small, non-national circuit tournament

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Very broad strokes but I'd say(in high school) that west coast is in to po-mo(colloquially "high theory") and east coast is in to identity politics. Midwest and south are both very policy imo.

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Here in Kansas we are known for being pretty backwards because many of our local tournaments are lay, but we have quite a few where faster policy debate takes place in virtually and K debate is taking a foothold (mostly due to the influence of colleges like KCKCC or Emporia which utilize the K quite often). We have more and more teams going to the national circuit (this year the KCK magnet school's top team Sumner GT went to their first circuit tournament, and turned to more kritikal arguments as opposed to their more policy arguments of years past). East Kansas is also a little different from Wichita area where the K is also being deployed with more frequency as well. But many of our top teams are heavy on policy (BVSW HF, SME DW etc) and others are more mixed (WEast BK) and others relatively more kritikal (Hutch CS).

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Here in Texas it depends on what organization and what part of the state. Here in the Texas panhandle, its very traditional, kritiks are frowned upon and stock issues is all we do. Elsewhere especially around the big cities its relatively k friendly.

There is absolutely no way someone from my area will be able to compete well at the national level as our style just doesn't prepare someone for commonly used arguments used everywhere else. When I first joined this forum, I was relatively experienced at policy but words and names like Heidegger and Afropessimism being thrown around just showed me how backwards my area is.

Edited by tacoman71

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Arkansas is pretty progressive as the influx of better debaters has turned in recent times. Also the poor DA ground is giving novice a better handling of how to go for the K proper. The Judges are mostly good, but we still have a minority of old school judges

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utah is pretty k friendly but the only schools that are successful with k's on the national circuit are rowland hall and maybe juan diego (both private schools).

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