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The aff fiats a plan happening.  Fiat says that a bill will pass Congress.  A politics DA says that fiat is not without consequences, and that the passage of the bill through Congress, even though it will happen, can have effects for other bills.

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If I ever hear of anyone here actually believing that fiat gets them out of politics then I will go to their coach and call their student a nooblord to their face. 

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If I ever hear of anyone here actually believing that fiat gets them out of politics then I will go to their coach and call their student a nooblord to their face. 

"B-b-but fiat means everyone's happy and nothing bad can ever happen"

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If I ever hear of anyone here actually believing that fiat gets them out of politics then I will go to their coach and call their student a nooblord to their face.

 

Something that doesn't spend any time in congress def causes everyone to rile up their relations in order to push votes for this mystery bill through, I agree.

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Something that doesn't spend any time in congress def causes everyone to rile up their relations in order to push votes for this mystery bill through, I agree.

 

Nooblord detected

Edited by RainSilves

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Something that doesn't spend any time in congress def causes everyone to rile up their relations in order to push votes for this mystery bill through, I agree.

And why would a bill not spend time in Congress? Fiat only says that it passes, not that it does it magically.

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And why would a bill not spend time in Congress? Fiat only says that it passes, not that it does it magically.

The resolved part of the resolution means immediate meaning that the judge voting aff and affirming the resolution causes the plan to immediately happen. Any other interp=loss of neg ground because they could easily say, "Well the plan will happen when the crisis in Ukraine is over so we don't link to the DA"

Edited by Solax10
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The resolved part of the resolution means immediate meaning that the judge voting aff and affirming the resolution causes the plan to immediately happen. Any other interp=loss of neg ground because they could easily say, "Well the plan will happen when the crisis in Ukraine is over so we don't link to the DA"

That still doesn't mean the plan didn't go through Congress, or that political capital wasn't expended. Even if you choose to think of the judges signature on the ballot as being the point in time where the plan is enacted, there still would've been the fight up to that point.

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That still doesn't mean the plan didn't go through Congress, or that political capital wasn't expended. Even if you choose to think of the judges signature on the ballot as being the point in time where the plan is enacted, there still would've been the fight up to that point.

If we accept that interpretation, then the fights should already have occurred by the time the judge signs the ballot, which seems to take out the DA just as thoroughly.  Also, why should the aff be forced to defend that Obama is the one pushing the plan?

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That still doesn't mean the plan didn't go through Congress, or that political capital wasn't expended. Even if you choose to think of the judges signature on the ballot as being the point in time where the plan is enacted, there still would've been the fight up to that point.

My argument was supporting the claim that fiat still links to PTX

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If we accept that interpretation, then the fights should already have occurred by the time the judge signs the ballot, which seems to take out the DA just as thoroughly.  Also, why should the aff be forced to defend that Obama is the one pushing the plan?

The fights "already occuring" only IF the judge signs the ballot in affirmation, and this still doesn't negate the link (well in the traditional plan saps political capital argument) because it means that Obama won't have the PC to get the impact scenario through.

 

Obama being the one to push it comes from the UQ debate. If the idea is that the plan won't pass in the squo (because there's major opposition in congress) then the only way for it to pass would be a major injection of political capital. Obama can either push whatever is set to pass in the squo or he can push the plan, but he can't push both.

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