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Race Happiness turns?

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Any happiness turns race args? I know this sounds illogical and dumb but you guys never cease to amaze me.

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Why do you assume that we are all guys? That's

A. Obviously not the case and

B. Offensive to those who aren't guys.

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Why do you assume that we are all guys? That's

A. Obviously not the case and

B. Offensive to those who aren't guys.

I'm pretty sure he's not using guys in the way you think he is. But still, gendered language is gendered language

Edited by CapitalismIsNotCool

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WE BECAME HAPPY SO RACISM STOPPED

- No Logical Author (I hope) 2014

I think OP is referring to the methodology of self-love that hooks has written a ton about. It's a legitimate argument, OP phrased it pretty offensively though. The argument isn't that happiness turns racism, but rather that happiness and agency aren't entirely contingent upon racist institutions, so empowerment can be generated outside of oppressive sociopolitical structures within marginalized communities.
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Oh, totally forgot about that argument. If that's what you meant, my bad on the downvote, OP. Confirm your intentions are good and I'll upvote you elsewhere to fix this. Sloppiness is perfectly excusable, I certainly do it enough.

OP, you might try looking in some old Fear of Death files. One of those is the only place I remember seeing Love turn cards by hooks. It was around 100 pages IIRC, and it was scanned so the pages were images and not editable text, and maybe it had the Der Derian card inside (30% chance or so?), but that's all I remember. If these cards are not what you're looking for exactly, they'll at least cite passages next to what you are, presumably. However, since my description is rather poor, Google might be more efficient. Sorry. Try that first.

Something that complements or says the same thing as ArneNaess' presentation of the argument would be the Deleuze card about how revolutionaries must be happy and joyous and cannot be sad or pessimistic. Think that might have been in an introduction to one of his two big works, not really sure. Probably a slightly butchered summary, but the keywords Deleuze, happy, and revolutionary will probably be sufficient to find it.

Edited by Chaos

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Something that complements or says the same thing as ArneNaess' presentation of the argument would be the Deleuze card about how revolutionaries must be happy and joyous and cannot be sad or pessimistic. Think that might have been in an introduction to one of his two big works, not really sure. Probably a slightly butchered summary, but the keywords Deleuze, happy, and revolutionary will probably be sufficient to find it.

this was May 5 

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Afro-optimism is actually a thing.  Check the middle passage negs on open evidence

Open evidence seems down for me. is it working for you?

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Afro-optimism is actually a thing.  Check the middle passage negs on open evidence

Afro optimism doesn't argue that being happy solves racism, the argument is that looking to the future as a method for possible change is how we get away from race-based epistemologies. It's a criticism of afro-pessimism. 

I think OP is referring to the methodology of self-love that hooks has written a ton about. It's a legitimate argument, OP phrased it pretty offensively though. The argument isn't that happiness turns racism, but rather that happiness and agency aren't entirely contingent upon racist institutions, so empowerment can be generated outside of oppressive sociopolitical structures within marginalized communities.

Oh, if he meant self-love K's, that makes way more sense. Although, I never really understood how loving yourself allowed you to escape what others thought of you- literal violence based on the way they view you still occurs, so I don't necessarily think self-love solves. 

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Afro optimism doesn't argue that being happy solves racism, the argument is that looking to the future as a method for possible change is how we get away from race-based epistemologies. It's a criticism of afro-pessimism. 

Not that much of a criticism though, especially since Moten takes Wilderson's work as somewhat of a central figure and Sexton argues that afro-optimism and afro-pessimism are in essence identical.

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I think OP is referring to the methodology of self-love that hooks has written a ton about. It's a legitimate argument, OP phrased it pretty offensively though. The argument isn't that happiness turns racism, but rather that happiness and agency aren't entirely contingent upon racist institutions, so empowerment can be generated outside of oppressive sociopolitical structures within marginalized communities.

Yes, this is what my framework for my aff is functioning with. I don't know where to start with race specific evidence though.

 

Sorry if I sounded offensive anyways.

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Not that much of a criticism though, especially since Moten takes Wilderson's work as somewhat of a central figure and Sexton argues that afro-optimism and afro-pessimism are in essence identical.

One says social death, and the other says social life

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One says social death, and the other says social life

Not exactly.  Sexton's explanation of why they are identical is that they both seek to find social life in social death and both operate through this embrace of the incoherence of the black body.

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Not exactly.  Sexton's explanation of why they are identical is that they both seek to find social life in social death and both operate through this embrace of the incoherence of the black body.

I know, but when we're talking about solely Afro-Optimism and Afro-Pessimism, without the injection of Sexton, we get a differentiation, which has been proven to be not so different in itself (through Sexton's works) - I have that part where he wrote that in my Wilderson K

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Not exactly.  Sexton's explanation of why they are identical is that they both seek to find social life in social death and both operate through this embrace of the incoherence of the black body.

Sexton and other afropessimist authors don't really say that. They believe that social life is inaccessible to black bodies because of sociopolitical structures in civil society that deny black bodies agency and their empowering potential. Which is why afropessimist authors take confrontational and violent approaches to challenging modernity, since the world writ large can never redeem the position of a body that in in of itself is defined to be undesirable. When Sexton is saying afropessimism is optimism he's really making the argument that once black bodies recognize their positions as disempowered beings that's when they can get shit done because they can understand that everything must be destroyed and being a slave any longer will only reinforce contemporary power dynamics.

 

Moten's representation of blackness is A LOT different in the sense that he believes that black bodies can create agency WITHIN their own communities, and believing that white systems of thought can determine black subjectivity is bad because it ascribes too much sovereignty to white bodies.

 

Both ends of the spectrum don't advocate black bodies as incoherent, that's what afropess does. Optimism embraces black agency as something to be affirmed, not a site of absolute dereliction. If you read any of Moten's books you would find that out really easily.

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Sexton and other afropessimist authors don't really say that. They believe that social life is inaccessible to black bodies because of sociopolitical structures in civil society that deny black bodies agency and their empowering potential. Which is why afropessimist authors take confrontational and violent approaches to challenging modernity, since the world writ large can never redeem the position of a body that in in of itself is defined to be undesirable. When Sexton is saying afropessimism is optimism he's really making the argument that once black bodies recognize their positions as disempowered beings that's when they can get shit done because they can understand that everything must be destroyed and being a slave any longer will only reinforce contemporary power dynamics.

 

Not really, in order to socially die, one must first socially live, Afropessimism, and by extension afropessimists, acknowledge the social life in blackness, it's just the relatively minuscule amount of it is what they find a problem with.

 

Moten's representation of blackness is A LOT different in the sense that he believes that black bodies can create agency WITHIN their own communities, and believing that white systems of thought can determine black subjectivity is bad because it ascribes too much sovereignty to white bodies.

 

True. But so do many, if not all afropessimists.

 

Both ends of the spectrum don't advocate black bodies as incoherent, that's what afropess does. Optimism embraces black agency as something to be affirmed, not a site of absolute dereliction. If you read any of Moten's books you would find that out really easily.

 

Absolute dereliction is more wildersonian than afropessimist and both see black agency add something to be affirmed, though with differing methodologies. Whereas Afropessimism says "burn it down and start over", afrooptimism says "run/steal away from the law and whiteness"

 

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Sexton and other afropessimist authors don't really say that. They believe that social life is inaccessible to black bodies because of sociopolitical structures in civil society that deny black bodies agency and their empowering potential. Which is why afropessimist authors take confrontational and violent approaches to challenging modernity, since the world writ large can never redeem the position of a body that in in of itself is defined to be undesirable. When Sexton is saying afropessimism is optimism he's really making the argument that once black bodies recognize their positions as disempowered beings that's when they can get shit done because they can understand that everything must be destroyed and being a slave any longer will only reinforce contemporary power dynamics.

Yeah, couple problems with this.  

 

1.  Sexton:

To speak of black social life and black social death, black social life against black social death, black social lifeas black social death, black social life in black social death—all of this is to find oneself in the midst of an argument that is also a profound agreement, an agreement that takes shape in (between) meconnaissance and (dis)belief. Black optimism is not the negation of the negation that is afro-pessimism, just as black social life does not negate black social death by inhabiting it and vitalizing it. A living death is as much a death as it is a living. Nothing in afro-pessimism suggests that there is no black (social) life, only that black life is not social life in the universe formed by the codes of state and civil society, of citizen and subject, of nation and culture, of people and place, of history and heritage, of all the things that colonial society has in common with the colonized, of all that capital has in common with labor—the modern world system. Black life is not lived in the world that the world lives in, but it is lived underground, in outer space. This is agreed. That is to say, what Moten asserts against afro-pessimism is a point already affirmed by afro-pessimism, is, in fact, one of the most polemical dimensions of afro-pessimism as a project: namely, that black life is not social, or rather that black life is lived in social death.

 

2. Moten does talk about the same type of revolutionary response to civil society.  His first chapter in the Undercommons is all about revolution and how the world is irredeemable.  The introduction to the book also speaks to the goal of "tearing this shit down", which is in essence identical to the common characterization of afropessimism as burning it down.  

 

Lots of other examples throughout his books and articles, but the main point is there.

 

 

Both ends of the spectrum don't advocate black bodies as incoherent, that's what afropess does. Optimism embraces black agency as something to be affirmed, not a site of absolute dereliction. If you read any of Moten's books you would find that out really easily.

 

While in the Undercommons he doesn't use the exact term "incoherent", Moten does speak to how the black agency he talks about is a state of complete "disorientation" and is "incomprehensible", which is exactly the point that afropessimists want to get across.

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