Payton vs. ?

[Payton 450]

All my finals are a joke, so I've got a lot of time. Anyone who wants to go neg against this, please post a 1nc 

 

 

This round is closed, but any potential competitors are free to go neg against this in the other "Payton vs. ?" thread. 

DnG Nomads v6.5.docx

Edited June 25, 2014 by payton

[Schopenhauer 256]

oo oo i got dis. 

 

 

Edit: i only ask because you said to just post the 1NC, but you're cool with crossx first right? or is that too much fascism for you?

Edited June 9, 2014 by Schopenhauer

[lbchuck1 256]

 or is that too much fascism for you?

 

I'm imagining a drill sergeant yelling "IS THAT TOO MUCH FASCISM FOR YOU" really loudly to a crying private...It's a very funny image

[Payton 450]

Cx 1st is definitely cool 

[Schopenhauer 256]

huh feel like i have to have this as a separate question just cuz the rest are subject to change based on the answer, so the first two will be quick

 

1. What do you advocate and what does it entail?

2. what is the role of the ballot?

 

i'll post the rest tonight 

[Payton 450]

huh feel like i have to have this as a separate question just cuz the rest are subject to change based on the answer, so the first two will be quick

 

1. What do you advocate and what does it entail?

- A strategy of assemblage. Constantly progressing and accumulating new methods of resistance against micro/macro fascism as well as territorialization

 

2. what is the role of the ballot?

- ROB's = Fascism. so no ROB. 

 

i'll post the rest tonight 

[Payton 450]

Also, to everyone who downloaded the aff, could you please PM me comments

[Schopenhauer 256]

1. What do you advocate and what does it entail?

- A strategy of assemblage. Constantly progressing and accumulating new methods of resistance against micro/macro fascism as well as territorialization

 

okay better question- what is your advocacy statement/ do you have one?

 

also what is your strategy of assemblage? what is your method of resistance? what do you deterritorialize and what do you reterritorialize it as? do you reject the state?

 

 

on the role of the ballot- does the ballot have no purpose then? if there is no purpose served by the ballot, does it even matter? why vote aff if there is no purpose in doing so?

 

line from one of your tags- "our affirmative is not one that can be controlled, as it traverses a plateau of infinite possibility"

if your aff can't be controlled, and has infinite possibilities, how can you possibly define an end point to your method?

 

at the end of the 1AC you say you create a line of flight. at the beginning you pose a question about fleeing from the state. is the goal of your Line of flight to flee the state/it's biopolitical control then?

 

 

should the rez be used as a stasis for debate?

 

your first card says "the sea were not only the archetype of all smooth spaces but the first to undergo a gradual striation "

how was the sea the first? why weren't the cartographical processes of mapping land the first to result in any form of striation?

 

 

whose war machine did the ocean serve as it became a smooth space?

 

 

can an economy exist that is not fascist? (as in any form of non capitalist economy that we haven't seen in the world today. obviously cap=fascism always and forever) 

 

what is the state and where does it exist?

 

The cooper evidence says "man intervenes with striation to distance himself from the threat of the sea’s formlessness" why does 'man' intervene? 

 

D&G says "the great imperial religions need a smooth space … in order to give it a law " what are the great imperial religions?

 

 

 

might have a few more later

 

Edit: fixed some grammatical stuff.. some not all

Edited June 9, 2014 by Schopenhauer

[Payton 450]

okay better question- what is your advocacy statement/ do you have one?

 

- Only constantly changing methods of resistance against the state 

 

also what is your strategy of assemblage? what is your method of resistance? what do you deterritorialize and what do you reterritorialize it as? do you reject the state?

- 1.) Constantly grouping with other machines (i.e. a laptop plugged into a socket). 2.) No static method of resistance 3.) We deterritorialize the sea and we don't reterritorialize upon it 4.) yes

 

on the role of the ballot- does the ballot have no purpose then? if there is no purpose served by the ballot, does it even matter? why vote aff if there is no purpose in doing so?

- It does have a purpose, it reflects who did the better debating 2.) Look at answer #1 3.) It represents an interest convergence

 

at the end of the 1AC you say you create a line of flight. at the beginning you pose a question about fleeing from the state. is the goal of your Line of flight to flee the state/it's biopolitical control then?

- Yes 

 

should the rez be used as a stasis for debate?

Yes 

 

how was the sea the first? why weren't the cartographical processes of mapping land the first to result in any form of striation?

- The problem did not arise in proximity to land. On the contrary, the striation of the sea was a result of navigation on the open water." 

 

whose war machine did the ocean serve as it became a smooth space?

- It didn't become smooth space, it originated as smooth. When the state took it over it became smooth again but it became part of the state war machine 

 

can an economy exist that is not fascist? (as in any form of non capitalist economy that we haven't seen in the world today. obviously cap=fascism always and forever) 

- No one knows but we must try 

 

what is the state and where does it exist?

- The state is any hierarchical structure. Anywhere that fascism is.

 

The cooper evidence says "man intervenes with striation to distance himself from the threat of the sea’s formlessness" why does 'man' intervene? 

- In order to encompass the striated space. Or in other words, one intervenes in order to better control that which isn't constantly moving

 

D&G says "the great imperial religions need a smooth space … in order to give it a law " what are the great imperial religions?

- The state

 

I like these questions, they make one (if you can say that while running DnG) think 

 

 

 

[Schopenhauer 256]

Just a few follow upas and i'll post the 1NC. bolded is new stuff

so if you don't have any static modes of resistance, how do you know what the end result of those infinite amount of things are? also if you're methods aren't static, how do you know what they are?

 

how do you know you won't end up making a line of flight out a window and becoming a body without organs all over the pavement below a building, like deleuze did?  

 

So is the fleeing from the state a form of resistance? (ya said line of flight is used to flee the state) if so, where does D&G conclude that fleeing=resistance?

 

 

whose war machine did the ocean serve as it became a smooth space?

- It didn't become smooth space, it originated as smooth. When the state took it over it became smooth again but it became part of the state war machine 

My bad on the wording here- you talk about, "the state" a lot. which state or states have war machines? are there or have there been any that don't express control via war machines? 

 

 

what is the state and where does it exist?

- The state is any hierarchical structure. Anywhere that fascism is.

tee hee, but really- when you say nomadism can you give an example of what this looks like? any people today that practice this? if not i have a different question - why can fascism not exist without a state?

 

The cooper evidence says "man intervenes with striation to distance himself from the threat of the sea’s formlessness" why does 'man' intervene? 

- In order to encompass the striated space. Or in other words, one intervenes in order to better control that which isn't constantly moving

okay, but why is it specifically, "man" who takes this action? 

 

 

If the rez is a stasis for debate, why isn't the control of the state and it's influence inevitable in rounds if it is determining what you say? (your focus on ocean exploration/development for example)

 

[Payton 450]

so if you don't have any static modes of resistance, how do you know what the end result of those infinite amount of things are? also if you're methods aren't static, how do you know what they are?

 

- That's the fun part, no one knows

 

how do you know you won't end up making a line of flight out a window and becoming a body without organs all over the pavement below a building, like deleuze did?  

 

- HOLY SHIT THAT'S ONE OF THE MOST POIGNANT AND CLEVER JOKES I'VE HEARD, THAT'S FUCKED UP YET I STILL LAUGH.But the only way from preventing ourselves from landing on the pavement is by linking w/ other lines of flight 

 

So is the fleeing from the state a form of resistance? (ya said line of flight is used to flee the state) if so, where does D&G conclude that fleeing=resistance?

- Yes. "Be quick, even when standing still! Line of chance, line of hips, line of flight. Don't bring out the General in you! Don't have just ideas, just have an idea"

 

My bad on the wording here- you talk about, "the state" a lot. which state or states have war machines? are there or have there been any that don't express control via war machines? 

-No state "has" a war machine it appropriates the war machine or perverts it as DnG say. But all states appropriate the war machine. No.

 

tee hee, but really- when you say nomadism can you give an example of what this looks like? any people today that practice this? if not i have a different question - why can fascism not exist without a state?

- The hysksos, mongols, etc. People that practice this today, there are certain tribal people(s) that practice this lifestyle. Fascism can definitely exist w/o a state,

 

okay, but why is it specifically, "man" who takes this action? 

- It's not saying "man" as in NORMATIVE concepts of what it means to be a "man", but unfortunately the author has to use such pronouns in order to accessibly communicate with people(s) in society.

 

 

If the rez is a stasis for debate, why isn't the control of the state and it's influence inevitable in rounds if it is determining what you say?

- The state is inevitable, but for a moment in time (this round) it's possible to delink from the res' method of expanding state control. 

 

If the 1nc is as good as cx, this should be fun 

 

[Schopenhauer 256]

1NC 1 off then case

i probably repeat myself a few times on case, but whateva. if you post crossx tonight i'll probably be able to answer at least part of it before tomorrow, if not i'll just post answers sometime tomorrow.

[BernieSanders 1775]

The formatting is STILL NOT FIXED 

 

 

YOU NOW GET NEGATIVE SPEAKER POINTS!!!!!!!!!! 

 

 

-1000000000000000000000000000000 SPEAKS 

[Schopenhauer 256]

v debate = no formatting and do whatever you want. these are the spring break of debates

[BernieSanders 1775]

v debate = no formatting and do whatever you want. these are the spring break of debates

 

YOURS IS EVEN WORSE!!! 

 

-10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 SPEAKS 

[Phantom707 1012]

YOURS IS EVEN WORSE!!! 

 

-10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 SPEAKS 

I hear that if you go negative far enough, you end up positive. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_temperature

 

And then he's going to complain about my formatting. I'm in college. No one cares.

[Schopenhauer 256]

i'm being fascismed by the formatting police state right now. proves the aff doesn't solve. vote neg. 

[Payton 450]

Euro 

1. What makes DnG eurocentric? (not in the words of the card) 

2. What is epistemic racism?

3. Is the alt a PIK/PIC?

4. "The alternative is the epistemic struggle that seeks the death of the American Man." What does this mean pursuing? Are we literally killing the American Man?

5. What is a "semiotic struggle"? 

6. What is the global south?

 

Solvency 

1. "they can’t solve any of the problems outlined in the 1AC without a specific strategy because it creates a vague understanding of their argument, the problems, and what to do to solve them." How do we create a vague understanding of anything in the 1ac?

2. If we have some form of non-authoritarian organization does that give us a political strategy?

3. What do you think the Deleuzoguattarian schizophrenic is?

[Schopenhauer 256]

1.1 Jacobowitz- D&G present the West as a universal figure. They run into the problem of eurocentrism within their theories at the same point in which they criticize it because, while they are critical of things like sovereign control an power over individuals, the way in which they explain it, come to understand it, and counter it, all completely ignore non western context in which that power manifests itself and operates.

 

1.2 Grosfofuel- this universalism is bad because whenever Europe/western perspectives are used to explain phenomena outside of their contexts they become global colonial designs. Because “universal†truth is create based on different epistemologies, the conclusion that the European starting point is the only true one excludes other knowledge’s (those of indigenous peoples, the global south, or any that don’t come from white hyper masculine European philosophies.)

 

2. This (above) answers what epistemic racism is. Racism that functions through an exclusion of non Eurocentric forms of knowledge production. 

 

3. ehhhh, nah. I don't think you have an advocacy, so it can't really be a PIK.

 

4. By American Man I mean a concept or figure, a particular way of being-in-the-world, the very subject of an episteme that gives continuity to an imperial order

no the literal death of people is not called for by the alt, as is explained clearly in the ev. it calls for the death of the american man as the death of that which is the center of the imperial order of the world. The US has taken eurocentrism and given it steroids in order to set up it's hegemonic rule, and thus the American Man has become a subject that rules over the earth and is the supposedly superior force in many ways. What this means is challenging anything that poses the knowledge/being of any particular subject as superior to another, or in this case an epistemic perspective which excludes alternative forms of knowledge production.

 

5. in the context of the K- the struggle to provide power of representation of ones self to those who don't have access to those means of representation.ex the knowledge of the 1AC not only omits, but overwhelms the voice of those who have notions of fluidity in politics that differ from the 1AC. deleuze's nomad is different form what a zapatista would define a nomad as, and the preconceived notion of how to resist these power structures via being rhizomatic, but at the end of the day the theoretical ideas of the 1AC don't translate into a way in which colonized people can liberate themselves from eurocentric powers and frameworks.

 

6. the colonized. includes south american countries, asian countries, african countries, and the people who now live and experience the effect of that colonization via coloniality.

 

solvency

1. lol. you outline a bunch of methods (line of flights, nomadism, schizoanalysis) but then say there are an infinite number of things you could do/ways you could do them. also you said you have no control over the aff, so even the ideas you put forth as a possibility that could maybe be one of the things that happen aren't guaranteed because you don't advocate it happening. it's vague because you said infinite things could happen and even you don't know what those things are, so they can't be defined. i think that's a perfect example of something vague.

 

2. I don't think so. Having an organization isn't necessary for defining a political strategy. Example- before the black panther party was an official organization, Huey Newton affirmed and practiced armed self defense as a strategy for resistance. You don't need and organization to define what should be done.

 

3. the deleuzoguattarian schizophrenic is a glorified and unrealistic concept. they portray schizophrenia as the ultimate lack of organization and control and pose schizoanalysis as a method of criticizing the state, when in reality schizophrenia is, for many, a horrifying mental illness. It acts as a cage that prevents some, such as Louis, from living a life full of much else other than constant rage and confusion, not a tool for liberation.

[Payton 450]

1.1 Jacobowitz- D&G present the West as a universal figure. They run into the problem of eurocentrism within their theories at the same point in which they criticize it because, while they are critical of things like sovereign control an power over individuals, the way in which they explain it, come to understand it, and counter it, all completely ignore non western context in which that power manifests itself and operates.

 

Could you please explain how sovereign control functions in non-western societies. And what in their explanation of sovereign control is inherently Eurocentric?

[Schopenhauer 256]

the violence of coloniality doesn't operate via france facsisming you with its support of capitalism, but if operates in other ways. for example, The group Boko Haram recently kidnapped 20 women from a nomadic settlement in northeast Nigeria in the same region in which the 200 school girls were kidnapped in April. it isn't the state that is suppressing people via biopolitics, but other forms of violence that people experience, forms of violence that D&G don't talk about how to solve. the problem is that when people actually do things similar to what they advocate (nomadism for example) there are forms of violent repression that occur, and D&G take no stance on how to deal with it, or even acknowledge it. 

 

 

Edit: link to article- http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2014/06/20-women-kidnapped-north-nigeria-20146100439854823.html

Edited June 10, 2014 by Schopenhauer

[Payton 450]

So if we can somehow address non-western sovereign violence can we solve for Euro?

[Schopenhauer 256]

So if we can somehow address non-western sovereign violence can we solve for Euro?

i probably worded my answer in a way that was a bit misleading, my bad. the lack of solvency comes from understanding that kind of violence as coming from the sovereign. or at least that's the arg i'm making. And i don't think you could because if i win that your starting point (which deleuze said doesn't matter. "Where are you coming from… These are totally useless questions.") is bad then the way in which you construct knowledge about the Other happens in a eurocentric manner which is how D&G's philosophies don't address problems outside of a european context and also why i think the aff perpetuates a way of misunderstanding problems and people.

 

but i mean, if at the end of the round you win that you solve the impact of the K, then i guess you do.

[Payton 450]

Sorry for the slow 2ac, had a family issue, if you dont believe me, message Ibchuck1 or Danny42 or RoyalTroll. 

2ac vs. Schopenhauer.docx

[Schopenhauer 256]

it's fine, but i just now noticed this, so crossx will be up later tomorrow. (probably evening)