Phantom707 (aff) vs. ibchuck1 (neg) - Oceans?

[Phantom707 1012]

I'm fine with any word limit. I think that the 1AC clocks in at 2183 or so. This is one of two threads with the same aff, and I hope that I don't have to have the same exact 2AC for both.

 

I'll be honest when I say I've never done a K aff, so this will be an experience for me. Also, understand that I'm not a high school debater, so...what are oceans?

 

Judges are needed and welcome. Open for cross-ex.

Waves.docx

[lbchuck1 256]

Ill have cross x ideally by Wednesday. I dont have wifi and my phone sucks.

 

Just want to keep you posted

[Phantom707 1012]

Ill have cross x ideally by Wednesday. I dont have wifi and my phone sucks.

 

Just want to keep you posted

Thanks for letting me know. And sorry if it had taken me a while to post the thread - I was a bit busy today.

 

Looking forward to your questions.

[BernieSanders 1775]

Alright op you proved that you did psychedelics, well, I did them too and frankly I thought that I discovered how awesome it is to be and being and guess what, I didnN'T  cause war. I sat outside high on shrooms watching clouds and having the time of my life. 

 

dropped, also -1 format points for non-calibri fonts and non-bolded underlined evidence. 

Edited June 3, 2014 by RainSilves

[CodyGustafson 202]

Just an idea, and I'm not quite sure how you would want to go about it, but I think that Oceans by Jay Z ft. Frank Ocean would be a great song to play if you wanted to do that kind of a performance aff 

Edited June 3, 2014 by CodyGustafson

[ARGogate 2316]

The only true font is Georgia

 

No comment on drugs

 

+1 for Burke 7

[lbchuck1 256]

1. Do you defend that The United States federal government should substantially increase its non-military exploration and/or development of the Earth’s oceans 

2. Why is identity a good starting point?

 

3. What is a process of becoming look like?

 

4. What is a fluid identity?

 

5. Whose identities are we starting with? Why?

 

6. What does the 1ac do?

 

7. Is the aff exploration or development? Or both?

 

8. What is endless warfare?

 

9. Why is process important?

[Phantom707 1012]

Alright op you proved that you did psychedelics, well, I did them too and frankly I thought that I discovered how awesome it is to be and being and guess what, I didnN'T  cause war. I sat outside high on shrooms watching clouds and having the time of my life. 

 

dropped, also -1 format points for non-calibri fonts and non-bolded underlined evidence. 

 

Is any of that true?

 

Dropped after the 1AC, huh? New personal record!

 

Just an idea, and I'm not quite sure how you would want to go about it, but I think that Oceans by Jay Z ft. Frank Ocean would be a great song to play if you wanted to do that kind of a performance aff 

 

I do have about 2:30 left after this, so I could fit some stuff in. However, I'm not a high school debater, and I recognize that I just tossed crap together. I've never done a K aff before.

 

The only true font is Georgia

 

No comment on drugs

 

+1 for Burke 7

 

You all know that how it renders depends on your personal settings in Verbatim, right? I have it in Times New Roman, but whatever.

 

And he kind of is a Deleuzian in this article. I was surprised when I first stumbled onto it.

 

By the way, everyone, judges? Judges?

 

1. Do you defend that The United States federal government should substantially increase its non-military exploration and/or development of the Earth’s oceans 

 

I defend the resolution which states that. I defend the resolution as a flow of experience. However, I do not take a stance on the government going out into the oceans and developing there.

 

2. Why is identity a good starting point?

 

It's not so much identity as existence that we take as a starting point. Existence is a good starting point because how we think about it determines literally how we approach the world. If we think something exists in a certain way, we will interact with it in a certain way, which can be good or bad.

 

3. What is a process of becoming look like?

 

It "looks like" everything. The world around us is a process of becoming. Any kind of movement is a process of becoming. If the world weren't a process of becoming, everything would be frozen in place, static.

 

4. What is a fluid identity?

 

It's an identity that changes over time. Instead of viewing identity as always and already given to us, it sees that things change. The first card, Schwartz 9, says "evolving consideration identifies core features ... of our personality, yet sees them as ... creative work, ... adapting ... to ... higher levels". The problem is that too many people think of their identities as something tied to their bodies or simply something that never changes. Even the body changes over time, so identity must change over time. Identity is thus defined not as tied to material existence but instead to temporal existence, the whole historical process of a person, including the unwritten future.

 

5. Whose identities are we starting with? Why?

 

Identity of the world, its existence. Everything within the world is connected with everything else in the world. We can't focus on just one thing in isolation because of this fact.

 

6. What does the 1ac do?

 

The 1AC stimulates discussion and debate to get us thinking about how we view the world. It gets us thinking that the world isn't composed of "being" but of"becoming". If the judge votes aff, they think that voting that way does something good (namely, prevents our impacts).

 

7. Is the aff exploration or development? Or both?

 

Both. You can't isolate one from the other.

 

8. What is endless warfare?

 

It's where we think warfare is a necessity, so we do it all the time. This is grounded in the absolute "Truth" of Being, which sees absolutely no alternatives.

 

9. Why is process important?

 

There are a couple of reasons. First, everything IS process, so if we don't pay attention to it, we won't get at anything. Second, the only alternative, a focus on substances, is just horrible. A focus on substances understands the world as static, unchanging, and that's just not what we experience.

 

 

Honestly, if I lose to framework, that's completely cool with me since I've never done this kind of thing.

 

By the way, what are we deciding for a word count?

[BernieSanders 1775]

Is any of that true?

 

Dropped after the 1AC, huh? New personal record!

 

 

 

I just troll debate threads like this. I'm not an actual judge... 

[Phantom707 1012]

I just troll debate threads like this. I'm not an actual judge... 

I know. That's the joke...

[Edgehopper 397]

I think you may be nontopical under every word of the resolution, including "the," "its," and "of." Even "Earth's oceans" metaphorically, since your cards are about (1) waves generally, (2) a metaphorical non-earth ocean, and (3) Lake Michigan.

[Phantom707 1012]

I think you may be nontopical under every word of the resolution, including "the," "its," and "of." Even "Earth's oceans" metaphorically, since your cards are about (1) waves generally, (2) a metaphorical non-earth ocean, and (3) Lake Michigan.

Shh... Don't let ibchuck1 know that.

 

But no, I get it. As stated above, I'm not a high school debater, so I haven't cut much cards on process philosophy's application to oceanic exploration/development. Also, this is my first ever foray into a K aff, and if framework and/or T is a negative argument, I have my own intentions of dealing with that .

 

However, to the metaphor point, I still think that it's applicable in how I extrapolate it. Sure, the cards talk about waves in general, but it can be applied to the case of oceans, which "contain" (for lack of better word) waves. You may say that using a metaphor to engage the resolution is not topical at all, but there's some push back against that from some people.

 

And yeah, Lake Michigan...I don't know what I was thinking. It may become useful later, but I'm having a little bit of fun right now.

 

TL;DR: I don't even know. It's fun!

[lbchuck1 256]

Why dont you defend government action?

 

What makes debate a productive space for this aff?

 

What is your impact? Endless violence?

 

Is physical existence specifically key?

Edited June 3, 2014 by lbchuck1

[Phantom707 1012]

Why dont you defend government action?

 

I don't think that it would be a productive use of the debate space in this specific instance. Defense of government action is good when we want to talk about government action, but in this case, we don't want to talk about government action. This is backed up by the multiple pieces of Burke 7 evidence, which states that current political thought is grounded in concepts of being. Defending government as it is now would tie the aff into a defense of being, something that would contradict with the thesis of the aff.

 

What makes debate a productive space for this aff?

 

The Cobb & Griffin 12 and Gare 4 pieces of evidence show that we need to have discussions in order to actually further process philosophy. We aren't alone in the world; we're in a democracy composed of other people. That means that we can't just lecture to other people and impose our views onto them; we need to have a discussion and competitive debate to see which one rises to the top. By actually discussing and debating, we become aware of another person's perspective and change ours accordingly so that we can reach a better consensus.

 

What is your impact? Endless violence?

 

That's one of the impacts of the 1AC. The other one is the Winters 10 evidence, nihilism. If we place our values in a concept of Being, then we end up valuing permanence and unchanging reality. The problem with that is that there's nothing in this world that's permanent; everything around us changes, and the world around us is the only world that exists. Thus, we end up valuing something that just doesn't exist, leading to a kind of nihilism where nothing we care about is real.

 

Further, there's the McLaren 8 card, which says mechanistic materialism is the root cause of the world's destructiveness. If we're focused on "material components" instead of "composite entities" (focus on being instead of becoming), then we end up thinking that everything we do is necessary, and that causes the destruction we see in the world today.

 

Is physical existence specifically key?

 

That depends on what you mean by "physical". Existence is key, yes, definitely (we don't want to value things that don't exist, as per the above explanation of Winters 10). However, not everything that exists has to have a physical body, if that's what you mean. Energy, for instance, definitely exists, but it doesn't have a particular body per se; it moves between entities.

[Payton 450]

Yo, i'll definitely judge this, i like the feel of this aff. 

[lbchuck1 256]

1nc

 

4 off 

Contention 1

Contention 2

1nc phantom.docx

[RoyalTroll 9]

I'll judge. 

[lbchuck1 256]

I'll judge. 

Are you okay with Ks?

[RoyalTroll 9]

Are you okay with Ks?

No I hate them and everyone who runs them is a fuck

 

lolol jk OF COURSE! 

 

don't act like you don't know I'm the best K debater in the CDL

[Phantom707 1012]

I'll have the 2AC up sometime before Friday, most likely.

1nc

 

4 off 

Contention 1

Contention 2

 

1. Status of the off case positions?

 

2. How is the 1AC pre-emptive? Define "pre-emption".

 

3. What is the text to your alternative(s)?

 

4. How did you come up with your alternative(s)? Did they just appear out of nowhere? How did you come up with the idea of the alternative?

 

5. Are you engaged in academia in any form?

 

6. Referring to the first off, do you advocate suicide (metaphorical or literal) as a means of exhausting the system?

 

7. The first card, Bifo 11, talks about the market system and neoliberal capitalism as being the cause of fetishism of reality. What about the market system/capitalism does this?

 

8. What would you like me to call the off case positions, just so that we're consistent in referring to them.

 

9. Do you articulate a violation to your interpretation on the second off case position? What would that violation be if you do?

 

10. Regarding the fourth off, what does it mean to vote negative to vote aff?

 

11. How does voting neg mask anything? Wouldn't there be records saying "ibchuck1 won because we like Phantom707's argument but wanted to hide who authored it"? Wouldn't that expose the "mask"?

 

12. On contention one, when do I focus on identity?

 

13. No, really, what's the word count?

 

I'll probably have more questions after you answer these.

 

 

.

[lbchuck1 256]

I'll have the 2AC up sometime before Friday, most likely.

 

1. Status of the off case positions?

Conditional

 

2. How is the 1AC pre-emptive? Define "pre-emption".

You are preparing for me to run T and have it in the 1ac so you don't have to deal with that threat later

 

3. What is the text to your alternative(s)?

Refuse their attempt to make change in a dead institution 

Vote negative to vote aff

 

4. How did you come up with your alternative(s)? Did they just appear out of nowhere? How did you come up with the idea of the alternative?

People wrote about stuff. 

I cut it. 

Wrote a tag for it.

Sometimes went on opensource

I didn't. Bill Shanahan did

#theinternetisnowhere

 

5. Are you engaged in academia in any form?

How do you mean? do I interact with it?

 

6. Referring to the first off, do you advocate suicide (metaphorical or literal) as a means of exhausting the system?

That could be a possibility. The point is there's no one specific way to exhaust the system

 

7. The first card, Bifo 11, talks about the market system and neoliberal capitalism as being the cause of fetishism of reality. What about the market system/capitalism does this?

Symbolic exchange functions to reduce everything, even lives to value - people are to live and die on the system's terms. Reality is constructed to how the system wants us to perceive it. That's why military companies are making billions so long as the threat of terrorism exists

 

8. What would you like me to call the off case positions, just so that we're consistent in referring to them.

Baudrillard

Framework

Solvency Advocate 

Identity K

 

9. Do you articulate a violation to your interpretation on the second off case position? What would that violation be if you do?

I mean, cx is a good link - you said that you won't defend government action

 

10. Regarding the fourth off, what does it mean to vote negative to vote aff?

Endorse the plan without the ballot

 

11. How does voting neg mask anything? Wouldn't there be records saying "ibchuck1 won because we like Phantom707's argument but wanted to hide who authored it"? Wouldn't that expose the "mask"?

Probably not. Nobody really records stuff on vdebates unless it's successful. If you, running a k aff for the first time, win, you make yourself visible, opening the 1ac up for cooption

 

12. On contention one, when do I focus on identity?

Existence and focusing on the way interact with the world means that people of all experiences can't necessarily relate. 

A politics that exists without focusing on ourselves is key

 

13. No, really, what's the word count?

2400?

 

I'll probably have more questions after you answer these.

Gotcha

 

 

.

[Phantom707 1012]

1. So, just to be sure, like multiple worlds?

 

2. So, then, talking about X means that I don't want to deal with X later? I never accused anyone/you of intending to run it. Where is the preemption in talking about something?

 

5. Yeah, do you interact with academia, or are you outside of it?

 

13. Okay, thanks. How does 1700 sound for the rebuttals?

[lbchuck1 256]

1. So, just to be sure, like multiple worlds?

 Not really. All the off can exist in the same world

 

2. So, then, talking about X means that I don't want to deal with X later? I never accused anyone/you of intending to run it. Where is the preemption in talking about something?

Why are you talking about topicality in the 1ac when all affirmatives are assumed topical unless otherwise stated

 

5. Yeah, do you interact with academia, or are you outside of it?

World of the alt or me personally?

 

13. Okay, thanks. How does 1700 sound for the rebuttals?

That works

 

[Phantom707 1012]

1. But you still get access to the status quo?

 

2. To be fair, it's my cross-ex, but I just was stating a historical fact, that this is what other people HAVE done in the past. I never said you would do it.

 

5. Either or.

 

14. So, can you articulate Bhambra 10? Are you saying the aff results in passivity because it focuses on identity?

 

And that should be my last set of cross-ex questions. I'll post the 2AC before tomorrow, actually, because I'm really pumped .

[lbchuck1 256]

1. But you still get access to the status quo?

The 2nr will either bro of the ks, framework or the procedural

 

2. To be fair, it's my cross-ex, but I just was stating a historical fact, that this is what other people HAVE done in the past. I never said you would do it.

 It was rhetorical. However still, preemption is an idea used with the war on terror etc

 

5. Either or.

The alt is a recognition that the university is dead and refuses to use it for a meaningless goal

 

14. So, can you articulate Bhambra 10? Are you saying the aff results in passivity because it focuses on identity?

Attaching movements to specific politics leads to inclusionary politics that makes your strategy more successful

 

And that should be my last set of cross-ex questions. I'll post the 2AC before tomorrow, actually, because I'm really pumped .