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Whoa whoa whoa - we get personal information and contact coaches for file trading disputes, but racism is much for seeking accountability? Seriously? 

 

It's an IP address. It can't reveal a home address (nor do the pictures) and can reveal a general geography for figuring out a school (which was the point). I've put my IP address in screenshots before because it's that useless for personal identification. IP addresses on cross-x are not exactly private either, because literally every moderator has the power to see the IP addresses of the people in these fora. 

 

I'm so confused why this is controversial. 

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It's an IP address. It can't reveal a home address (nor do the pictures) and can reveal a general geography for figuring out a school (which was the point). I've put my IP address in screenshots before because it's that useless for personal identification. IP addresses on cross-x are not exactly private either, because literally every moderator has the power to see the IP addresses of the people in these fora. 

Wait, is your identity supposed to be secret?

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Whoa whoa whoa - we get personal information and contact coaches for file trading disputes, but racism is much for seeking accountability? Seriously? 

 

It's an IP address. It can't reveal a home address (nor do the pictures) and can reveal a general geography for figuring out a school (which was the point). I've put my IP address in screenshots before because it's that useless for personal identification. IP addresses on cross-x are not exactly private either, because literally every moderator has the power to see the IP addresses of the people in these fora. 

 

I'm so confused why this is controversial. 

I'm going to apologize if I was stepping on your toes here. I just felt like there were enough people complaining about it that it warranted action. I may have been wrong on this.

 

To your point, though, I agree with you that it can't reveal home addresses (I said as much above), but the difference between those cases and this one is that someone other than the person in question revealed the information, so it was technically against their will. So, even if I've posted my own information before (which I have), I don't get to post the information of others without their express permission.

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Wait, is your identity supposed to be secret?

Please only refer to me as the batman. 

 

hard to keep it a secret when I post it pretty regularly lol

I'm going to apologize if I was stepping on your toes here. I just felt like there were enough people complaining about it that it warranted action. I may have been wrong on this.

 

To your point, though, I agree with you that it can't reveal home addresses (I said as much above), but the difference between those cases and this one is that someone other than the person in question revealed the information, so it was technically against their will. So, even if I've posted my own information before (which I have), I don't get to post the information of others without their express permission.

I appreciate that. I'm not sure I like seeing my posts edited by another more than anyone else. 

 

I agree that this person likely would want to conceal their identity...which was my point. I think racism deserves public shaming. We crowdsource finding personal contact information for coaches for far less important issues, like file trading. The involuntariness is warranted by the improper conduct. That's why I asked for debate schools near the area, to then contact their coach.

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Please only refer to me as the batman. 

 

hard to keep it a secret when I post it pretty regularly lol

 

I appreciate that. I'm not sure I like seeing my posts edited by another more than anyone else. 

 

I agree that this person likely would want to conceal their identity...which was my point. I think racism deserves public shaming. We crowdsource finding personal contact information for coaches for far less important issues, like file trading. The involuntariness is warranted by the improper conduct. That's why I asked for debate schools near the area, to then contact their coach.

Just tossing in my opinion-this is probably a novice just trying to act funny. They were immature. I think that contacting a coach is a-ok but I think opening them up to harassment crosses a line. I don't see why quasi- doxxing them is appropriate when you could certainly post this info in a secure place-I.e the mods forum-and still be able to contact a coach.
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Just tossing in my opinion-this is probably a novice just trying to act funny. They were immature. I think that contacting a coach is a-ok but I think opening them up to harassment crosses a line. I don't see why quasi- doxxing them is appropriate when you could certainly post this info in a secure place-I.e the mods forum-and still be able to contact a coach.

I'm not sure what harassment you think this opens them to. It certainly opens them to accountability for racism, and they should be held accountable novice, JV, or varsity. It does not identify their home, their address, or anything other than their rough geography - which is the only way to figure out which coach to call. 

 

There are about a half-dozen mods, and I don't know that any of them are from Kansas, let alone the part of Kansas specific enough to speak intelligently about the location. The entire point of posting publicly was crowdsourcing accountability.

 

Just to make sure we're all on the same page - does anyone disagree that public racism deserves accountability?

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Just to make sure we're all on the same page - does anyone disagree that public racism deserves accountability?

 

 

EDIT: Edits made on the original post made me believe that there was a lot of overreacting. The post before the edit made the reaction justified though. Go ahead and ignore the stuff I said below

 

Public racism deserves accountability, but I don't see how he's being racist. His argument is against Kritikal teams in general, not against race teams. It doesn't seem to me like he's saying "Get out race debaters, nobody wants you". He's just arguing that reading untopical affs and complaining about framework is unreasonable. Sure he uses the term "cheating", but it doesn't seem to be in a particularly aggressive way. It just means that they don't follow the traditional rules of debate. In his later posts, he makes it clear that he isn't against race debate, just against kritikal teams that complain about 1-off F/W.

 

Even if you disagree with his opinion, he isn't being racist. There's something to be said about assuming all complaints about kritik debate to be about race debate, but I won't go into that.

 

Not racist, not a troll, and his argument is being distorted and misread by a lot of people (Myself included it seems). The term "racist" gets thrown around way to much, even when race isn't even mentioned by the person.

 

 

(For the record: I only skimmed over the thread, and there's been some edits so I may be partially wrong about particulars) 

Edited by JosephOverman

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Public racism deserves accountability, but I don't see how he's being racist. His argument is against Kritikal teams in general, not against race teams. It doesn't seem to me like he's saying "Get out race debaters, nobody wants you". He's just arguing that reading untopical affs and complaining about framework is unreasonable. Sure he uses the term "cheating", but it doesn't seem to be in a particularly aggressive way. It just means that they don't follow the traditional rules of debate. In his later posts, he makes it clear that he isn't against race debate, just against kritikal teams that complain about 1-off F/W.

 

Even if you disagree with his opinion, he isn't being racist. There's something to be said about assuming all complaints about kritik debate to be about race debate, but I won't go into that.

 

Not racist, not a troll, and his argument is being distorted and misread by a lot of people (Myself included it seems). The term "racist" gets thrown around way to much, even when race isn't even mentioned by the person.

 

 

(For the record: I only skimmed over the thread, and there's been some edits so I may be partially wrong about particulars) 

I think the wording of the post is very racist.  specifically, the wording of his post used to be "why do black teams always cheat" (he just edited it though)

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Yeah. The title of the thread is "race teams cheating". Speaks for itself.

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Just to help you out, a lot of the "black teams" that are "cheating" (Not being linked to the res) are typically the WORST TEAMS. I guarantee the ones that don't link to the res AT ALL are just using copycat args from years ago, the good race teams are constantly innovating and actually being linked to the topic. They claim to get tired of framework not only because it doesn't engage w/ the aff, but also because their better K teams are saying they're tired of framework so in order to copy them, they say it too. On the aspect of cap/anthro, Typically, neither are debated well or in an innovative fashion everyone uses Zizek and Daly 4 and various other ubiquitous cap cards, and they're quick to say "cap precedes race!" but never elaborate on how, (IMO it shouldn't be used as a K o/w because this group of people getting fucked over is worse than this group of people. It should be used as a X = the key I/L to X impact.) (Not just for cap/race but all K debates). On anthro, the same concept of its never deployed w/ nuance, just the same cards over and over (no one ever says "seeing animals as disposable is what allows you to see people as disposable", everyone just says "what about the animals man" thus making the perm a very easy option, and an easy loss on the impact debate). If deployed better, these teams wouldn't care if you hit them w/ this. 

 

                                                                             #KDebateRant 

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Also, on framework, the cheater teams always use the Wilderson 8 card saying "fairness is a concept of whiteness" as an impact turn, just say its unfair to fuck over black people and that fairness is not only the key solvency mechanism for their aff, but use it as a root cause arg

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On anthro, the same concept of its never deployed w/ nuance, just the same cards over and over (no one ever says "seeing animals as disposable is what allows you to see people as disposable", everyone just says "what about the animals man" thus making the perm a very easy option, and an easy loss on the impact debate). If deployed better, these teams wouldn't care if you hit them w/ this. 

 

                                                                 

 

I'm pretty certain that any competent anthro debater argues this. Any card that says anthro is the root cause of racism/sexism/ableism/etc... makes this argument

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I'm pretty certain that any competent anthro debater argues this. Any card that says anthro is the root cause of racism/sexism/ableism/etc... makes this argument

Exactly, any competent anthro debater or K debater, but the problem is A LOT of people aren't, that's why K teams get bored of hearing one arg deployed the same way.I ran embargo w/ Multilat as an advantage, everyone round I hit the same alt cause Gitmo card, and multilat fails, but people never really used it as an argument they just threw it out there. I got tired of hearing every round, not because I had heard it, but because no one actually used the card to its ability.

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I'm sorry if I sounded as if I'm generalizing/ was actually generalizing, it's just something I hit when running both policy and K args

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I'm pretty certain that any competent anthro debater argues this. Any card that says anthro is the root cause of racism/sexism/ableism/etc... makes this argument

I would've upvoted you. But I'm out of positive votes

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 The thing this might all turn out to is Teams reading K's just beacuse they think it is a easy way of winning instead of understanding the arguement or reading the lit  #alittlehyprocritical. But if a team choose this route - it seems like a legitmate issue that needs to be checked into .. 

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The thing this might all turn out to is Teams reading K's just beacuse they think it is a easy way of winning instead of understanding the arguement or reading the lit  #alittlehyprocritical. But if a team choose this route - it seems like a legitmate issue that needs to be checked into ..

 

They do it because it works. Incentives matter. As long as tab judges vote up teams who don't understand their wacky Ks because their opponents don't understand them either, teams will run Ks they don't understand to gain an advantage.

 

Social incentives also matter--as long as debating actual policy, law, economics, science, etc. is viewed as something novices do, teams will strive to move into the K fever swamp. After all, Jared, why are you trying to become a K debater in your second year?

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 Because it is something i believe in thats the only reason i kinda of do . Thats why i also say im alittle hypocritical , but i do at least read in alot into something i decied to run . I find these compartive death scenario's is alittle wacky , so i look into the K , and i found something i just digged alot more . 

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Ok, Ill be honest. Some of my affs aren't topical what so ever and I make arguments to why Im doing such. I also use Wilderson 8 card to impact turn Framework sometiems, and I also probably do a lot of the things people hate or what y'all call cheating or being a bad K debater( except running args that I don't know about I don't do that! Thats Tacky) but at the same time I would challenge a lot of you to actually debate me in a real K round. Thats not being cocky thats me being real. Like I don't think its fair to label everyone who does a particular thing a bad k debater. 

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Ok, Ill be honest. Some of my affs aren't topical what so ever and I make arguments to why Im doing such. I also use Wilderson 8 card to impact turn Framework sometiems, and I also probably do a lot of the things people hate or what y'all call cheating or being a bad K debater( except running args that I don't know about I don't do that! Thats Tacky) but at the same time I would challenge a lot of you to actually debate me in a real K round. Thats not being cocky thats me being real. Like I don't think its fair to label everyone who does a particular thing a bad k debater. 

Ok I honestly don't know if that post made sense or conveyed what I was trying to say properly. 

 

Basically I do some of those things and I'm still a good K debater if you don't  believe so DEBATE ME!!!

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Ok I honestly don't know if that post made sense or conveyed what I was trying to say properly. 

 

Basically I do some of those things and I'm still a good K debater if you don't  believe so DEBATE ME!!!

 

He's a good K debater

Source: Have debated

 

(P.S. If your feelings are hurt easily, choose another opponent)

Edited by lbchuck1
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