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CaptainWilderson

As a debater, I really hate reddit

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While i agree that reddit is often full of stupidity and bigotry, especially when it intersects debate, i feel like its partially our fault.  Debate is very complicated and hard to understand unless you have participated.  This is partially due to spreading, partially due to the fact that we talk about a lot of obscure philosophers, and partially to the fact that we seem to often revel in our anonymity.  I love debate, but most people (myself included) never make an effort to show people that aren't involved in debate what an amazing activity debate is on so many levels.  And we attack any article (the atlantic article comes to mind) that doesn't describe debate perfectly how we want it to.  Which is basically impossible given space constraints on a single article.  So yes, well we all hate racist people on reddit, maybe we should try to publicize debate in a way that doesn't scare people or make us look like incidents instead of letting only our worst moments be publicized (like the Shanahan-DSRB moment)

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While i agree that reddit is often full of stupidity and bigotry, especially when it intersects debate, i feel like its partially our fault.  Debate is very complicated and hard to understand unless you have participated.  This is partially due to spreading, partially due to the fact that we talk about a lot of obscure philosophers, and partially to the fact that we seem to often revel in our anonymity.  I love debate, but most people (myself included) never make an effort to show people that aren't involved in debate what an amazing activity debate is on so many levels.  And we attack any article (the atlantic article comes to mind) that doesn't describe debate perfectly how we want it to.  Which is basically impossible given space constraints on a single article.  So yes, well we all hate racist people on reddit, maybe we should try to publicize debate in a way that doesn't scare people or make us look like incidents instead of letting only our worst moments be publicized (like the Shanahan-DSRB moment)

Spreading isn't built for public forums, but my issue is more of the fact that they took sound bytes of the debate and blew them up with doing no research. Also the comments regarded Ammena and Korey as "retarded, autistic, stupid, not-well presented", which I take great issue with. It's a huge fault of the news report but there's gotta be a question in your mind :"huh, how did two girls just say nigga and win a national debate championship? Maybe I should do some research to find out!" Then the racist comments. The racist comments. Captain Wilderson is sad!

 

Edit- oh and a fat comment! Isn't reddit just fucking grand?

Edited by CaptainWilderson

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Spreading isn't built for public forums, but my issue is more of the fact that they took sound bytes of the debate and blew them up with doing no research. Also the comments regarded Ammena and Korey as "retarded, autistic, stupid, not-well presented", which I take great issue with. It's a huge fault of the news report but there's gotta be a question in your mind :"huh, how did two girls just say nigga and win a national debate championship? Maybe I should do some research to find out!" Then the racist comments. The racist comments. Captain Wilderson is sad!

 

Edit- oh and a fat comment! Isn't reddit just fucking grand?

That's called the internet, not just Reddit. Ever watch a stream and look at the comments section? If you don't like racist/sexist/ableist/whatever comments on the internet, why are you on it in the first place?

Don't get me wrong, I don't like it either, but it's something you live with.

About the spreading stuff - yea, debate is fucking weird, and the debaters are even weirder. As someone who participates in the activity, spreading has got to be one of the strangest things I've seen.

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Race and fat-hate aside (look, what do you expect from a forum like reddit?), you can either be elitist and separatist or you can demand acceptance; you can't have both. Because critical theory and racial separatist arguments dominate college (and high level HS) debate, the arguments are left of about 95% of the American public. (And sound horrifying to about 70% of those). Because we defend spreading as a way to cram more content in a round, we speak in a way that requires training and practice to understand. Most people believe "debate" should try to persuade an average educated judge; we don't. Most people believe that a debate should be about the topic; we don't any more.

 

If you really want to defend the elitism and exclusionary style of policy debate, take pride that no one at reddit understands you, don't be offended by it. Get used to the fact that most policy arguments will never be taken seriously outside academia (or even outside the critical theory-heavy portions of academia, for that matter).

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If you don't like racist/sexist/ableist/whatever comments on the internet, why are you on it in the first place?

 

'if you dont like it leave' is the shittiest of shitty pseudo responses

 

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You're tossing the baby out with the bathwater Wilderson!  :D  The title is an obvious troll, but not everyone is a racist troll.

Some of it is pretty on point, especially this one in the context of collegiate debate.

 

"Naw, I just read your comment really fast and put some "ughs" in between the words. But seriously, this is fairly stupid. This is like having a competition of who can play guitar the fastest and everyone fucks up and plays the wrong notes every few seconds. I wonder if it'd be easier to understand on cocaine."

 

 

 

"They made a skill into a competition, soon the competition became more important than the skill.

Some people just want to win stuff. It's the same reason we see people exploit bugs and bad design in games in a tedious way to get ahead. Those guys are exploiting imperfect rules to win, which has fundamentally changed the whole exercise."

 

When you start streaming shit it starts to reach a wider audience, but debate is really not for muggles. Still it is hilarious to read their impressions if they're given in earnest.

 

I agree that many of the comments are written by straight up racist trolls, conservatives who think "political correctness" is ubiquitous, and ignorant people claiming to know about stuff they don't. But there are some redeeming qualities. Its nice as a litmus test for how much the debate community acts as an intellectual vanguard.  Also I had no idea that Saul Williams was quoted in the final round until I read it in that thread. I fucking love Saul Williams. And I watched some of this debate. I had no idea he was quoting him.

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Bill Shanahan yelled at and mooned a coach after losing to a race kritik and it got caught on tape. The video is floating around the internet somewhere. let me find it.

 

 

EDIT: here it is: http://boingboing.net/2008/08/18/debate-coaches-screa.html

as with everything on the internet, it's probably not wise to read the comments.

Edited by pigasus

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Bill Shanahan yelled at and mooned a coach after losing to a race kritik and it got caught on tape. The video is floating around the internet somewhere. let me find it.

 

 

EDIT: here it is: http://boingboing.net/2008/08/18/debate-coaches-screa.html

as with everything on the internet, it's probably not wise to read the comments.

Ah, but if you skip the comments, you miss this gem:

 

"Kritik? It looks like these folks are a few steps away from playing Krikit."

 

(If you don't get that reference, you should read more Douglas Adams).

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This is part of the reason I literally don't go on reddit except for /r/Debate, /r/BadPhilosophy, /r/PhilosophyOfRace, /r/CriticalPedagogy, and the other assorted left-theory subs. The named ones I'm obligated to monitor as a mod. I'm just sick and tired of the crap. I've like nuked all of the defaults from my front page because otherwise I'd just never get on, really.

Edited by dancon25

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This is part of the reason I literally don't go on reddit except for /r/Debate, /r/BadPhilosophy, /r/PhilosophyOfRace, /r/CriticalPedagogy, and the other assorted left-theory subs. The named ones I'm obligated to monitor as a mod. I'm just sick and tired of the crap. I've like nuked all of the defaults from my front page because otherwise I'd just never get on, really.

I checked out r/debate out of curiosity and coming from Cross X, almost everything being about PF surprised me.

 

Anyways, at least r/funny (the imgur.com side of it though) is usually pretty good if we're trying to defend parts of reddit.

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