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TamaleTosser

Round 601: Argogate(Aff.) Vs. Snowballpigeon(Neg.)

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2500/1500

Need judges.

Sorry forgot to put in title, the round will be on the space rez

Resolved: The United States federal government should substantially increase its exploration and/or development of space beyond the Earth's mesosphere.

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okay i can see the aff, but i wont be able to post 1nc until thursday because im using my mom's laptop and it has no word and all my space stuff is on word :\, ill get mine late wednesday/early thursday so it should be up till then. I'll post some cross-x questions in a few

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ok so how much money are you going to be funding?
which sector is going to be funding the plan(air force, dod)?
how come Deudney 2k9 doesnt apply to your impacts?
can you explain code of conduct a bit, im kind of confused :/?
when was the last time an asteriod did strike? did it escalate to your impacts?

i'll ask more in a bit

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ok so how much money are you going to be funding?

Don't specify, but I'll defend that the aff uses a substantial amount of money

 

which sector is going to be funding the plan(air force, dod)?

The USfg will provide funding (btw air force is a part of the DoD budget)

 

how come Deudney 2k9 doesnt apply to your impacts?

Deudney is in the context of cold war style escalation control and deterrence concepts (interdependence, etc). The krepon evidence indicates that because of satallite takeouts (comm sats, etc) and states' failing to see the effects of collateral damage through destroying space assets, outer space creates a unique scenario for escalation that can't be accessed through normal ground war scenarios

 

can you explain code of conduct a bit, im kind of confused :/?

The aff is key to monitoring and verification of space activities, which allows for an effective code of conduct with other nations. Even if there are already codes of conduct in the status quo, the US isn't getting on board because they're unverifiable, and China isn't signing due to negative perception of the US' space activities. By providing a nonmilitary means of info-sharing, the aff reverses that escalatory action-reaction space policy

 

when was the last time an asteriod did strike? did it escalate to your impacts?

1. One killed the dinosaurs, but the question misses the boat. It's not a question of probability, Posen indicates that high magnitude impacts should be preferred because they're uniquely devastating

2. It wasn't big enough, but it did wipe out almost all life on Earth. However, the Easterbrook evidence indicates that newly discovered rocks are many times larger in size than the one that killed the dinosaurs. That means it's a very real possibility. The environmental damage the Chapman evidence talks about has been proven through data from geological surveys, etc (you know the story, dust cloud blocking the sun, etc)

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-okay so how does increasing funding for SSA, solve for secrecy issues between US and Euro? None of your evidence clarifies. 
-also your evidence keeps stating that they other countries mispercieve us if take unilateral action w/o code of conduct. Its been 2013, wheres your impacts?
-if you dont specify amount of money, are you defending substantial through non-monetary ways?
-yes, you state usfg will be implementing plan, but whats your agent of action, the us is a bureacracy, it sections it budget. So if it were to do a military plan they go to DoD, to do shuttle they go to NASA, whose doing this specific plan?
-your inherent barrier is money problems and dod inefficency, correct? how do you plan on solving the latter scenerio? 

-SSA will be using a series of satellites, correct? If so current ones or will be more be sent? If more will be, how?
-timeframe for construction? timeframe for impacts? 
-bennet 11 says aff solves, where are the warrents to the arg.? it only assumes that it CAN work and it can theoretically, but has it been tested or is it even feasible? 
-how do you go from M&E to Rogers? How does that lead to nuclear subs?
-can you explain your radar contention, just want to make sure im not misinterpreting?
-how much time would we have if the radar spotted an asteroid?

sorry if these questions are rudimentary, trying to jog my memory of space rez, havent read lit on it for a while?

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okay so how does increasing funding for SSA, solve for secrecy issues between US and Euro? None of your evidence clarifies.

The Gleason evidence indicates that DoD secrecy over shared SSA info is damaging US opportunity to cooperate over GMES. The aff funds a civil satellite network, which the Bennett evidence indicates won't be affected by the same negative perceptions as squo SSA, which is under the Air Force and underfunded. The aff breaks the military's grip on that space tech, so to speak.

 

also your evidence keeps stating that they other countries mispercieve us if take unilateral action w/o code of conduct. Its been 2013, wheres your impacts?

Actually really close to happening, China is currently advancing it's own agenda in space. Furthermore, it's not misperception that causes escalation, it's the US-China security delimma which turns 

 

if you dont specify amount of money, are you defending substantial through non-monetary ways?

I'll defend a "substantial" amount of money, if that clears things up

 

yes, you state usfg will be implementing plan, but whats your agent of action, the us is a bureacracy, it sections it budget. So if it were to do a military plan they go to DoD, to do shuttle they

go to NASA, whose doing this specific plan?

The Bennett evidence indicates that the aff would result in the creation of the USSG (Space Guard), which would control the aff

 

your inherent barrier is money problems and dod inefficency, correct? how do you plan on solving the latter scenerio?

The aff isn't under the DoD. The Bennett evidence indicates that a shift to civil SSA would solve bad perceptions and ensure that SSA would be adequately funded, because the Air Force got too much going on, so the USSG would result in burden-sharing.

 

SSA will be using a series of satellites, correct? If so current ones or will be more be sent? If more will be, how?

SSA is a satellite network. The aff does result in more sats being sent. We don't specify an exact number of satellites.

 

timeframe for construction? timeframe for impacts? 

The GAO evidence indicates that the satellites are really easy to construct and launch, it's just that nobody in the DoD cares about them. So maybe a few months, a year tops. The Hitchens evidence gives a TF of 10 years (from 2008), so in 5 years we got a space war. Asteroids, TF doesn't matter, Posen says you should vote as if one is going to strike any minute. Europe, the internal link is already happening now (nuke sub deployment in the Arctic), the BioD impact will come fast. The toxins impact, about 10 years or so.

 

bennet 11 says aff solves, where are the warrents to the arg.? it only assumes that it CAN work and it can theoretically, but has it been tested or is it even feasible?

SSA already exists, and it works. It's a question of funding, efficiency, and transparency, not whether the satellites themselves are functional/operational. 

 

how do you go from M&E to Rogers? How does that lead to nuclear subs?

GMES has been monitoring the Arctic for a while, and M&E says that it's uniquely key to accurate Arctic mapping. Without it, the US has no way to figure out a strategy for Arctic access (Rogers, at the top of the card). It's important now with a resource grab by other countries going on and the opening of new trade routes with the melting of sea ice. Current accidents are being perceived as attacks due to state suspicion and, you know, actual accidents (submarines hit stuff, says McDonough). Nations are therefore sending out nuke subs to "guide" and survey their and others' ships, but that proliferation of nuclear subs will lead to inevitable collisions with other subs and oil tankers, which are the main ship types that travel through the Arctic.

 

can you explain your radar contention, just want to make sure im not misinterpreting?

Too many military satellites in the air right now, that creates signal jamming which prevents SSA from doing one of its jobs - track asteroids. The aff's switch to a civil system chan

 

how much time would we have if the radar spotted an asteroid?

Quite a bit of time, actually. The Easterbrook and Goddard cards cite unique radar mapping technologies which can't be used without the aff. We could see every asteroid long before it hit us. Gives us plenty of time to plan ahead.

 

also, why are you doing the plan?

Can you clarify this question? Do you mean why I'm doing the plan, or why I'm doing this plan?

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the latter. as in whats the use of advocating anything than all(besides that the resolution forces you to) what benefits are you seeking? what terminal impacts do you wish to avoid?

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I'll defend high-school (or college?) debate as a testing ground for my argument. The aff prevents the 1AC impacts, at least in the context of policy debate. For the purposes of this round, those impacts should be taken as real unless proven otherwise by some other policy argument.

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alright thanks for bearing with me through that long and cumbersome cross ex. I have no further questions. Once again I'll have a speech up by late thursday because of word doc issues. We still need judges, Im down with anything you want, but I would prefer diversity so maybe a policy maker and kritikal paradigms 

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Sorry there’s a lot of questions :/

 

Case
Where does the CPI evidence talk about Asteroids (i.e. objects that aren’t in LEO)?

Where does the Park evidence mention detection besides concluding that “current efforts should concentrate on detection and orbit determination�

 

Fukushima card, where does it say that interdependence checks war in space? It just says that debris and military tests are making conflicts worse, combined with a quote of the NSP.

 

 

CP/K Thing

Status of the K/CP?

 

If the EU solves debris in the squo, why does debris take out US satellites?

 

Where does your evidence say that EU sats won’t be hit?

 

How is the CP any more “real†than the aff?

Your evidence is talking about why the “gift of reform†is bad for the masses. What part of the aff or the CP affects the masses?

 

What does “real†reform look like?

Framework arg at the top of the K, why doesn’t it link to the “call for the ballot†link?

McGowan is a Kantian analysis of Batman, how does that apply to SSA?

Which link talks about satellites, SSA, or space policy at all?

You read some good evidence on why policymakers in congress present false “reform†strategies. Where do you read a link to policy debaters in a debate round causing a spillover to actual policymaking?


DA

First card, says “our next space policy and strategy, while including international efforts of mutual benefit, should focus on advancing American capability.†What part of this does the aff change?

Armor cites Air Force unreliability and inability to maintain a good SSA program as reasons the EU can’t use US SSA. The plan doesn’t use the Air Force, what’s the link to the Space Guard (aff actor)?
 

Armor says people in the EU “envision enhanced space support capabilities and an independent European space C2 infrastructure.†Why doesn’t that stop the EU from collapsing?

Where do you read a card that says EU SSA is uniquely key to its space sector?

Skaar is in the context of the EU buying US space tech/components. How does not doing the aff resolve this?

Puigarnau says that “space exploration generates innovation. In particular, human exploration is one of the most technologically complex activities and requires innovative solutions to the challenges it poses.†How does the aff affect the EU’s human spaceflight program?

 

Das does a decent job talking about US-EU economic interconnectedness, and he mentions that when it comes to US monetary policy’s effect on the EU, “further rounds of quantitative easing are possible, setting off inflation and de-stabilising, large scale capital flows into emerging markets.†Why didn’t the past year of QE trigger the impact?
 

The Patrick evidence is in the context of past trade violations by China, Russia, and European nations. It’s been 4 years since the card was written, and trade violations are still going on. Why hasn’t the impact happened?

For the China stuff you specifically highlighted, why don’t recent talks between Xi Jinping and Obama on economic and military cooperation solve the trade war impact?

Conversely, why haven’t China bashing (2012 election) and the unfair steel subsidies suit brought, among numerous other suits, against China triggered the impact?

 

Oh, and the Das evidence mentions that “European debt problems will affect currency markets and through that channel the global economy.†Why didn’t Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Italy, or Spain trigger the impact?


 

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im about to go to sleep now, I'll answer them tomorrow, sorry for screwing your cross ex, so feel free to ask questions throughout tomorrow so you can get your full 24 hours. 

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Case
Where does the CPI evidence talk about Asteroids (i.e. objects that aren’t in LEO)?
​It doesnt specify, but it generalizes that currently technology is sufficent to solve for asteroids and gives the example of the LEO asteroids which offer us the most imminent threat. The simple fact that "The result is a high performance computational tool that can be incorporated into SSA simulations."  as stated by CPI showcases that the technology is available and can easily be incorporated without all the drastic measures your aff advocates for. 

Where does the Park evidence mention detection besides concluding that “current efforts should concentrate on detection and orbit determination�

The Park card had nothing to do with detection, the argument presented was that the time frame between your impact is an independent reason not to vote. However it does mention that we should not action now because since impact is so far away waiting for our technology to improve is the best choice.
"all of modern technology is squeezed into the present century, and the pace of technological advance is accelerating."

"available technology can deal effectively with a threatening asteroid, given waiting time"

and detection is included in asteroid technology although the card does not necessarily argue detection is the technology which will be pursued.

Fukushima card, where does it say that interdependence checks war in space? It just says that debris and military tests are making conflicts worse, combined with a quote of the NSP.

It basically gives two examples of the US-russia satellite collision and China ASAT which happened and did not trigger your impact because "space is a highly interdependent domain."

 

CP/K Thing

Status of the K/CP?

dispo

If the EU solves debris in the squo, why does debris take out US satellites?

"Now the European Space Agency has taken its first steps toward creating its own space surveillance system that could track thousands of objects per second"  The card says they recently started to work towards combating this problem since no one else stepped up. We are arguing since EU is best poised to tackle this problem they should do CP. With both their space debris program and SSA it wont be long before debris stops taking out satellites.

 

 

Where does your evidence say that EU sats won’t be hit?

Like I said up there^^ right now sats will continue to get hit because solving for space debris is still in its infantry stage but still is a prerequisite to solve before doing your plan.

How is the CP any more “real†than the aff?
Because we dont fall prey to the false heroism rhetoric where we try to do a plan only to boost our narcissistic egos and try to gain a fake facade of heroisitic capabilities which poisons the world setting a stage of majority who are indebted and minority have the power. By doing the cp, the US assumes the role of sacrificing our power and reputation and thus gaining a real status of heroism. The best way to look at the K is through the movie the Dark Knight. Harvey Dent epitomizes false heroism when he exemplifies  his two face side and batman depicts how to become truly heroic, one has to sacrifice and become "Evil" in the eyes of the public.
Your evidence is talking about why the “gift of reform†is bad for the masses. What part of the aff or the CP affects the masses?

The aff hides behind the facade of defending the people of the US from hypothetical impacts such as space war and asteroid collision, which uses security actions to transer American peoples funds and thus you gain this fake persona of heroism. The CP affects the masses, by the US sacrificing for elevated equality for the masses.

What does “real†reform look like?
Ive already explained it twice above, but "real"reform happens when the initiator stops hiding behind this sense of false heroism and stops pursing giving in the name of gaining as to say street cred. By sacrificing and then simultaneously becoming evil and batman did can we avoid the fate of Harvey Dent.
Framework arg at the top of the K, why doesn’t it link to the “call for the ballot†link?
Because the alt comes before and we sacrifice our reputation and false heroism to where we can now advocate true reform.
McGowan is a Kantian analysis of Batman, how does that apply to SSA?
The dark knight gives an analogous example of this perpetual and vicious cycle of false heroism symbolized through harvey dent and how becoming persay evil in the publics eyes will allow SSA to be done purely without poisoning the ballot.

You read some good evidence on why policymakers in congress present false “reform†strategies. Where do you read a link to policy debaters in a debate round causing a spillover to actual policymaking?
In this debate we are playing the role models of policymakers by advocating policy through fiat and such, so the source of false reform strategies stems from this round itself as well.

DA

First card, says “our next space policy and strategy, while including international efforts of mutual benefit, should focus on advancing American capability.†What part of this does the aff change?
The aff takes a step to further push our space policies, which causes cooperation or even competitiveness in which causes EU dependency. The aff does exactly whats not going on in the squo "They are pressing ahead with their goals to step into the vacuum of leadership that the US is allowing through the shutdown of US programs, abandoning capabilities, and allowing the loss of large numbers of skilled space worker"  and reverses this.

 

Armor cites Air Force unreliability and inability to maintain a good SSA program as reasons the EU can’t use US SSA. The plan doesn’t use the Air Force, what’s the link to the Space Guard (aff actor)?
It doesnt, but the fact that SSA has previously been in the hands of Air Force which wrecked solvency through inefficient measures causes a bad perception and EU is the only one that has a good public perception, thats pannu 11.

Armor says people in the EU “envision enhanced space support capabilities and an independent European space C2 infrastructure.†Why doesn’t that stop the EU from collapsing?
I dont think I understand your question, but the simple ideology that this is the status quo thinking does not assure stability, especially if your plan causes dependence and changes this mindset which leads to the impact.
Where do you read a card that says EU SSA is uniquely key to its space sector?

Armor 08- ", in their newly released defense policy, Europeans contemplate the development of their own space surveillance network since, again in part, they cannot rely on SSA support from the US. "

 

Skaar is in the context of the EU buying US space tech/components. How does not doing the aff resolve this?
That is just an example of how dependent the EU can become, with the US not doing anything we can change it, however if the aff takes action that US space production expands and EU becomes more dependent. "They are pressing ahead with their goals to step into the vacuum of leadership that the US is allowing through the shutdown of US programs, abandoning capabilities, and allowing the loss of large numbers of skilled space worker" 

 

Puigarnau says that “space exploration generates innovation. In particular, human exploration is one of the most technologically complex activities and requires innovative solutions to the challenges it poses.†How does the aff affect the EU’s human spaceflight program?

 

Das does a decent job talking about US-EU economic interconnectedness, and he mentions that when it comes to US monetary policy’s effect on the EU, “further rounds of quantitative easing are possible, setting off inflation and de-stabilising, large scale capital flows into emerging markets.†Why didn’t the past year of QE trigger the impact?

It hasnt led to the impact yet, but has pushed us to the brink. Just look at the EU, it is going through the process of econ distress and next will protectionist impacts. Right now this plan actually has a bigger effect.

The Patrick evidence is in the context of past trade violations by China, Russia, and European nations. It’s been 4 years since the card was written, and trade violations are still going on. Why hasn’t the impact happened?
The impact is on its way and the urgency of the situation can only be reversed through US space inactivity and for Europe to grow through its space program
For the China stuff you specifically highlighted, why don’t recent talks between Xi Jinping and Obama on economic and military cooperation solve the trade war impact?
They are working towards changing, but your last question answers this question. Because of pleothra of trade violations it is hard to reverse the mindset. The aff being inaction nullifies the talks.
Conversely, why haven’t China bashing (2012 election) and the unfair steel subsidies suit brought, among numerous other suits, against China triggered the impact?

Explicar por favor?

Oh, and the Das evidence mentions that “European debt problems will affect currency markets and through that channel the global economy.†Why didn’t Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Italy, or Spain trigger the impact?

The effects can be seen allover the world such as gas prices and US unemployment and our own recession  It is causes a global econ collapse and thats why we cant take any more actions which would propel that outcome.

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Armor says people in the EU “envision enhanced space support capabilities and an independent European space C2 infrastructure.†Why doesn’t that stop the EU from collapsing?
I dont think I understand your question, but the simple ideology that this is the status quo thinking does not assure stability, especially if your plan causes dependence and changes this mindset which leads to the impact.

 

Woah, how did we get to a mindset shift link? I don’t see that in any of the evidence you read…

 

Puigarnau says that “space exploration generates innovation. In particular, human exploration is one of the most technologically complex activities and requires innovative solutions to the challenges it poses.†How does the aff affect the EU’s human spaceflight program?

 

Oh, and the Das evidence mentions that “European debt problems will affect currency markets and through that channel the global economy.†Why didn’t Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Italy, or Spain trigger the impact?

The effects can be seen allover the world such as gas prices and US unemployment and our own recession  It is causes a global econ collapse and thats why we cant take any more actions which would propel that outcome.

 

Not my question. Those 5 EU countries had economic meltdowns after your cards were written. Why didn’t any of them trigger the impact?

 

 

How is the CP any more “real†than the aff?
Because we dont fall prey to the false heroism rhetoric where we try to do a plan only to boost our narcissistic egos and try to gain a fake facade of heroisitic capabilities which poisons the world setting a stage of majority who are indebted and minority have the power. By doing the cp, the US assumes the role of sacrificing our power and reputation and thus gaining a real status of heroism. The best way to look at the K is through the movie the Dark Knight. Harvey Dent epitomizes false heroism when he exemplifies  his two face side and batman depicts how to become truly heroic, one has to sacrifice and become "Evil" in the eyes of the public.

 

Your link to the criticism isn’t in the context of US policy…I, as the student proposing this plan in this debate round (the “initiator,†to borrow your term), reject false heroism rhetoric and the mindset that comes with it. How do I link any more than you, especially since you have no links that say this ONE debate round will somehow affect the US government’s minds?

 

Your evidence is talking about why the “gift of reform†is bad for the masses. What part of the aff or the CP affects the masses?

The aff hides behind the facade of defending the people of the US from hypothetical impacts such as space war and asteroid collision, which uses security actions to transer American peoples funds and thus you gain this fake persona of heroism. The CP affects the masses, by the US sacrificing for elevated equality for the masses.

 

What happens to the EU’s “masses�

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