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Phantom707

How Has Debate Messed You Up?

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I have the urge to slap anyone who starts arguing (in a non-debate context).

 

Anecdotes are really annoying to listen to.

 

Spreading when giving speeches/presentations.

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I'm an old timer - I just turned 44.  I used to debate against and get judged by the authors Al and Gordon you have cited above. (Hell, I've even partied with them).  I also went to the wake of a friend of mine who was in the same Illinois group just last year.  

 

Debaters question everything.  A lot of times, they play off the chessboard when it comes to ethics.  Smoking pot is a given.  The notion that 'everything is subjective' seems to be thrown around a lot.  Debaters have a tendency of thinking that they are intellectual gods, and that people outside of debate are very ignorant.  They think they are advanced.  I don't think they are.  

 

There is gigantic level of social misanthropy in debate.  People can be very disrespectful of one another, and a lot of people don't recognize any limits; any boundaries.  

 

And what are you really learning?  Nothing that is clearly marketable.  A lot of debaters (like my friend that passed away) skated through life for a long time not really honing any real skills other than the ability to speak well, which is something he did anyway.  

There was an ad I saw on TV one time with a kid that was on a roller coaster.  A voice says 'you might think your kid is very active.  But what if you stop what he is riding on.  What is he really doing?'  That's debate to me.  Just a wild ride at a Six Flags.  

 

You fly around the country.  You go to these tournaments.  But what did you really learn?  I have a friend of mine that teaches philosophy for the University of Minnesota, and he was never in debate.  He talks to me from time to time about how very annoying he finds it when debaters come and talk to him about philosophy.  He says they understand it in a very generalized, out of context way.  

 

So yeah, there are a lot of debaters that have gone on to much bigger and better things.  And then there is that side of debate that leaves you at 23 with nothing more than bad pot habit and a mangled understanding of continental philosophy.  Or you end up being one of these debate coach guys that argue with each other about their programs, how much funding they are getting, how their voting records are, etc., that I see on facebook, etc.  That's not much of a payout for $150,000 in education when you could have been a chemical engineer.   

Edited by Hephaestus
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Social interaction with non-debaters = impossible

As someone who is a long, long way from awesome socially, I actually disagree with this point.  Most of my best friends are debaters, but i still have quite a few good friends outside of debate

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Sorry I just felt the need to respond to this

I'm an old timer - I just turned 44.  I used to debate against and get judged by the authors Al and Gordon you have cited above. (Hell, I've even partied with them).  I also went to the wake of a friend of mine who was in the same Illinois group just last year.  

Glad to see there are people who stay around debate for so long

Debaters question everything.  A lot of times, they play off the chessboard when it comes to ethics.  Smoking pot is a given.  The notion that 'everything is subjective' seems to be thrown around a lot.  Debaters have a tendency of thinking that they are intellectual gods, and that people outside of debate are very ignorant.  They think they are advanced.  I don't think they are.  

Debate does have the tendency to erode morals...for example if anyone remembers the scene in "Debate Team" about kicking cats or beating people for the NDT trophy...that said I don't think that the majority of us  are completely without ethics both in round and out. Perhaps not traditional morality but morality nonetheless.  Yeah Pot is pretty much a given in debate (although not completely, I've somehow not picked it up, nor have about half of my old team), that said it was probably a given without debate.  Course I live in WA where it's legal at age 21.  Lastly I would say only some debaters characterize themselves as gods.  Some were/are.  Remember the WGLF? (and one of the winners of the NDT in '09 just got his masters and PhD in the course of 4 years) But in all reality people do perceive themselves as knowing more than the general public because they do.  Now they shouldn't feel superior about this, but I prefer having lots of people who actually know their stuff and are kinda arrogant  over no one having much knowledge about anything.

There is gigantic level of social misanthropy in debate.  People can be very disrespectful of one another, and a lot of people don't recognize any limits; any boundaries.  

​I disagree.  We incentivize being at least civil via speaker-points. 

And what are you really learning?  Nothing that is clearly marketable.  A lot of debaters (like my friend that passed away) skated through life for a long time not really honing any real skills other than the ability to speak well, which is something he did anyway.  

There was an ad I saw on TV one time with a kid that was on a roller coaster.  A voice says 'you might think your kid is very active.  But what if you stop what he is riding on.  What is he really doing?'  That's debate to me.  Just a wild ride at a Six Flags.  

Research skills, the ability to comprehend lots of information very quickly, and then summarize it.  The ability to convey an argument persuasively.  How many jobs require interaction and occasional convincing?  All of them.

You fly around the country.  You go to these tournaments.  But what did you really learn?  I have a friend of mine that teaches philosophy for the University of Minnesota, and he was never in debate.  He talks to me from time to time about how very annoying he finds it when debaters come and talk to him about philosophy.  He says they understand it in a very generalized, out of context way.  

See above.  Also I don't think knowing Baudrillard outside of a debate context has any applications anyways.

So yeah, there are a lot of debaters that have gone on to much bigger and better things.  And then there is that side of debate that leaves you at 23 with nothing more than bad pot habit and a mangled understanding of continental philosophy.  Or you end up being one of these debate coach guys that argue with each other about their programs, how much funding they are getting, how their voting records are, etc., that I see on facebook, etc.  That's not much of a payout for $150,000 in education when you could have been a chemical engineer.

Gotta admit I'm intending to do both.  Debate and become an engineer that is. Not to say debate doesn't have the ability to mess you up in all of these ways - it does.  But I don't think that debate leaves you worse off.  You can always pick up the pieces and besides I must admit I know and accept the bads of debate (And try to change them), but regardless of some ill effects to myself I do it because I love it.

 

 

unrelated to above but I find myself being unnecessarily blunt at times and unnecessarily flowery at others.  

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Social interaction with non-debaters = impossible

sorry RILFGod4Life, caught u slippin. (u get it)

 

but when i was debating an ishton in highschool (travelling nationally, going to tournaments every weekend), most of my friends weren't debaters. still aren't. but i also was on the surf team (which at a hippie school like SDA is like the football team, 2013 national champions!!!) and smoked too much weed (don't worry guys i'm not 15 nemoar). this might have something to do with it. i guess if your going to lyke a jock school, than what ur saying is true, but it depends on the person as well. srry had to neg rep u there dood, but debate made me a lot more confident/ outgoing/ and social.

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I'm not necessarily saying that you can't make friends outside of debate, i as well have many but attempting to make a casual conversation for me at least is quite difficult if I have been working on a lot of debate because I know that they will not understand anything I talk about lol

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I'm not necessarily saying that you can't make friends outside of debate, i as well have many but attempting to make a casual conversation for me at least is quite difficult if I have been working on a lot of debate because I know that they will not understand anything I talk about lol

I had to write  a history essay right after returning from Whitman- I kept using words like biopolitics, commodification, bare life, and social construction.  I felt kinda bad about it

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apparently a quote about 'reterritorialization' is obscure and (since i based my entire essay on it) sufficient to give me a B-. The worst thing is how she calls it 'obscure,' when it comes from one of the greatest contemporary philosophers. imo, people just ignore what they dont want to/cant understand. same with marxism. in SS, we learnede about marxism and everyone is just so close minded b/c they want marxism to be bad, and that's what they've been told

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. in SS, we learnede about marxism and everyone is just so close minded b/c they want marxism to be bad, and that's what they've been told

But America won the cold War so obviously capitalism is better. Right?

 

In all seriousness, although marx had some flaws in his theories imo, his analysis is still one of the best ways to analyze history

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I had to write  a history essay right after returning from Whitman- I kept using words like biopolitics, commodification, bare life, and social construction.  I felt kinda bad about it

Yo my AP Test Essay for Language & Composition last year was about the Zapatistas and globalization. Guess who has two thumbs and got a 5? aw yeah

Edited by dancon25
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Yo my AP Test Essay for Language & Composition last year was about the Zapatistas and globalization. Guess who has two thumbs and got a 5? aw yeah

I got a 5 because I was reading "Simulation and Simulcara" at the time, totally got me through the synthesis. 

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My sleep schedule has been significantly altered and I find myself having a constant need of caffeine. mostly red bull and coffee. 

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I often find myself speaking much faster then necessary. Whenever I have to give a speech for a class outside of debate I have to constantly remind myself to slow down, or when I get into an argument with somebody I speed faster and faster.

 

This. Especially during plays.

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Ah, speech. It's pretty much ruined for me. Speaking at a normal speed after trying to keep up with spreading kids is impossible, now. It's gotten to the point where I can't speak what little Spanish I know slowly anymore. (Leads to a LOT of mistakes.) And I tend not to sleep often, particularly before and after tournaments.

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Today in class we were talking about slavery and I started quoting Wilderson.

 

I'm curious as to how you did this - did you talk about Blackness being an Ontological Condition created by the "Middle Passage" or did you dumb it down?

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