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Miro

Boston Bombing

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my friend and I are watching the news now... Any more info? like who's responsible? 

 

This is really bad news, i agree

This is what the reddit post says: "Update 31: Suspect is a Black male w. black hoodie w. black backpack noted by BPD."

Not sure how accurate this is, I'd double check it.

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There were multiple bombs, I'm doubtful that any one individual was responsible.

Also, the way that Reddit has handled itself has been very impressive to me. I've been watching over there for the last hour or so. In general, there's little paranoia, few jokes, nice discussion of the need for restraint, that kind of thing. Makes me proud, if that makes any sense.

Also, insert general note about how systemic violence is way worse than the flashy stuff.

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This is what the reddit post says: "Update 31: Suspect is a Black male w. black hoodie w. black backpack noted by BPD."

 

 

Regardless of what the perpetrators look like or believe in, they are most certainly terrorists in every sense of the word. 

Prayers out to those affected.

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"…Perhaps one mourns when one accepts that by the loss one undergoes one will be changed, possibly for ever…. I think one is hit by waves, and that one starts out the day with an aim, a project, a plan, and finds oneself foiled. One finds oneself fallen. One is exhausted but does not know why. Something is larger than one’s own deliberate plan, one’s own project, one’s own knowing and choosing.... something about who we are is revealed.... Who “am†I, without you? ...... On one level, I think I have lost “you†only to discover that “I†have gone missing as well..."

- Judith Butler

Thoughts to those affected by the events in Boston

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"…Perhaps one mourns when one accepts that by the loss one undergoes one will be changed, possibly for ever…. I think one is hit by waves, and that one starts out the day with an aim, a project, a plan, and finds oneself foiled. One finds oneself fallen. One is exhausted but does not know why. Something is larger than one’s own deliberate plan, one’s own project, one’s own knowing and choosing.... something about who we are is revealed.... Who “am†I, without you? ...... On one level, I think I have lost “you†only to discover that “I†have gone missing as well..."

- Judith Butler

Thoughts to those affected by the events in Boston

Sounds similar to some of Hofstadter's stuff after his wife died.

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The JFK library was caused by fire, not by bombing, though equally tragic. 

 

One of the other possible suspects is a Saudi gent who works at the Mass General Hospital (not sure why...).

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One of the other possible suspects is a Saudi gent who works at the Mass General Hospital (not sure why...).

It was obviously North Korea testing out their new long-range nuke.

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It was obviously North Korea testing out their new long-range nuke.

I had kids in school who said the bombing was North Korea and about how after school the only Korea is gonna be South Korea after we blow them off the face of the Earth.

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I had kids in school who said the bombing was North Korea and about how after school the only Korea is gonna be South Korea after we blow them off the face of the Earth.

That is bigotry.
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That is bigotry.

Rabid Nationalism, not bigotry (probably). North Korea's government is despised, but not their people. Honestly, he probably didn't even believe what he was saying and just wanted to sound tough or knowledgeable, or to have someone to blame.

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I hate to be "that" guy but I'm already sick of people pretending they care. Don't try to tell me you do care, because I can prove you don't give a fuck. Did you personally know someone effected by this? More than likely the answer is no. Well guess what, this same shit happens in Israel/Palestine damn near everyday and guess what? You personally don't know someone effected in those tragedies either, nor do you give a fuck. 

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I hate to be "that" guy but I'm already sick of people pretending they care. Don't try to tell me you do care, because I can prove you don't give a fuck. Did you personally know someone effected by this? More than likely the answer is no. Well guess what, this same shit happens in Israel/Palestine damn near everyday and guess what? You personally don't know someone effected in those tragedies either, nor do you give a fuck. 

It's not possible to be aware of all violence at all times, nor is it possible to acknowledge it, but that doesn't mean we should be apathetic. Innocent people died, you really don't have a right to say that "nobody REALLY cares about this". And why do you have to know them to care about them?

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It's not possible to be aware of all violence at all times, nor is it possible to acknowledge it.

 

So wait, are you not aware of the epidemic of violence in Israel, the middle east etc? You should be painfully aware by now. These bombings happen every fucking day. When did my claim become "all violence"? 

 

[quote=Bannister]

but that doesn't mean we should be apathetic. blablablabla etc. 

But you ARE apathetic. If you and others really gave a shit about innocent people we'd hear about it everyday when it happens in Israel... just like the spamfest going on facebook etc. The only reason any of you talk about it is nationalism. You only give a fuck inasmuch as those people could have been you or your loved ones. 

 

 

You don't know people in this bombing, nor people in bombings in Israel etc.. That means that in relation to you they are the same. Complete strangers. But for some reason you care about this bombing and not the hundreds of thousands of others? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...  

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So wait, are you not aware of the epidemic of violence in Israel, the middle east etc? You should be painfully aware by now. These bombings happen every fucking day. When did my claim become "all violence"? 

 

 

But you ARE apathetic. If you and others really gave a shit about innocent people we'd hear about it everyday when it happens in Israel... just like the spamfest going on facebook etc. The only reason any of you talk about it is nationalism. You only give a fuck inasmuch as those people could have been you or your loved ones. 

 

 

You don't know people in this bombing, nor people in bombings in Israel etc.. That means that in relation to you they are the same. Complete strangers. But for some reason you care about this bombing and not the hundreds of thousands of others? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...  

No, this is ridiculous. At this point, you're linking back to your own argument. By your logic, you're apathetic because in your discussion of violence you ignore, for example, Native American land that has nuclear waste dumped on it, structurally killing them and their culture. My point is that when we confront tragedy, there's no way we can possibly confront all tragedies. 

 

This thread was made about the Boston bombings. I said that it was terrible. Now you're demonizing me because I didn't talk about Israel? That logic is ridiculous. I never said "who gives a fuck about Israel", i was simply talking about the tragedy that happened recently in Boston. 

 

You're also getting on me for "caring about this bombing and not thousands of others". But once again, the only way this would work under your ideology is that when i comment about Boston, i'd have to say "and the bombing in Israel, and the violence in our inner cities, and poverty in India, and beheadings in mexico, etc.". And I'd always leave something out.

 

So by your logic, unless someone literally confronts all tragedies when they reference one, they're never "right". So the only alternative you provide is apathy. It's better to care and leave some people out then not care at all. 

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So wait, are you not aware of the epidemic of violence in Israel, the middle east etc? You should be painfully aware by now. These bombings happen every fucking day. When did my claim become "all violence".

Your argument applies to all violence (unless you are specifically talking about how we ignore violence in the middle east, in which case your own argument applies to yourself.)

 

 

Also, Either I do care about this bombing, which means I'm privileging events in the US, or I don't care, which means I'm not privileging anybody. 

 

It's inherently human to put priorities on things that are closer/have more relation to you. Doesn't mean I care less.

 

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No, this is ridiculous. At this point, you're linking back to your own argument. By your logic, you're apathetic because in your discussion of violence you ignore, for example, Native American land that has nuclear waste dumped on it, structurally killing them and their culture.

[/quote

Honestly after reading this I am not even going to bother reading the rest of your post. I'm talking about bombings. How you can conflate anything I've said to "all violence" is beyond fucking stupid.  I've been saying bombings happen every fucking day, every fucking year but all of a sudden you care? I totally understand why this site died... and for that matter why debate is dying (dead) as well. 

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I'm talking about bombings. How you can conflate anything I've said to "all violence" is beyond fucking stupid.

 

 

So wait, are you not aware of the epidemic of violence in Israel, the middle east etc

Edit: Now you're just talking yourself into circles...

Still didn't respond to my comment that either you are talking about all violence, or you're specifically ignoring others.

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Honestly after reading this I am not even going to bother reading the rest of your post. I'm talking about bombings. How you can conflate anything I've said to "all violence" is beyond fucking stupid.  I've been saying bombings happen every fucking day, every fucking year but all of a sudden you care? I totally understand why this site died... and for that matter why debate is dying (dead) as well. 

okay dude, that's pretty ad hom. and pessimistic. I'm having a disagreement with you on a website and debate is dying?

 

and fine, not all violence. Just bombings. It still applies, these bombings happen everywhere. 

 

edit: disagree with me/miro without being a dick/swearing? it's uncalled for

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I agree with Hulk that most people don't and really shouldn't care, at least not when you consider other instances of violence that are way worse but get no attention. His claim that people "only give a fuck inasmuch as those people could have been you or your loved ones" actually seems generous to me, since I think it's more about social signalling and self image than about risk assessment. This sort of thing used to make me mad, because authenticity mattered a lot to me. It still does, a little. But after experiencing the same reaction to different school shootings, natural disasters, etc, I'm sort of coming to tolerate the ridiculousness of people. I think that it's pretty messed up, but still human nature, so we need to try to get over it. In fact, maybe we even need to play the game now and then and participate in discussions like this, even if others give them more weight than they should. So I think that Hulk's argument is right but that his reaction to that argument is wrong, although it's something I have a lot of problems with myself.
 

Y'all are being way too nitpicky about the specifics of his point. The overall idea is quite clearly true, regardless of the details.

Edited by xlii
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I agree with Hulk that most people don't and really shouldn't care, at least not when you consider other instances of violence that are way worse but get no attention. His claim that people "only give a fuck inasmuch as those people could have been you or your loved ones" actually seems generous to me, since I think it's more about social signalling and self image than about risk assessment. This sort of thing used to make me mad, because authenticity mattered a lot to me. It still does, a little. But after experiencing the same reaction to different school shootings, natural disasters, etc, I'm sort of coming to tolerate the ridiculousness of people. I think that it's pretty messed up, but still human nature, so we need to try to get over it. His claim that 

Y'all are being way too nitpicky about the specifics of his point. The overall idea is quite clearly true, regardless of the details.

it's fair that authenticity is good, but he's not one to judge that. And like i've been saying, the only alternative here is not caring about anything ever. 

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it's fair that authenticity is good, but he's not one to judge that. And like i've been saying, the only alternative here is not caring about anything ever. 

Jurisdiction is stupid. Everyone has the right to judge anything. Also, if people authentically care more about Boston than other instances of violence, they might be assholes.

 

The alternative is to care about Boston, but only a little. Probably not enough to talk about it, since you'd have other priorities. I don't endorse that alternative since I figure that it's inevitable others are going to talk about it and also I'm not perfect. But regardless, Hulk's not a nihilist, he's more the opposite. He's sort of overflowing with emotions and weighting them equally while you're just boxing them into little categories that you artificially privilege. I like his position better than yours, although I like my own best of all.

Edited by xlii

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he's making claims about me as a person and things I care about, and he knows nothing about me. Jurisdiction is at least relevant. 

 

And this "alternative" seems kind of unfeasible. you posit a a relationship to tragedy where everyone can "only care a little, and not talk about it". That seems to be problematic because this ignores human subjectivity, and you can't have some system where people can only care a certain amount, this borders on the offensive. Even if you're just talking about me personally, this doesnt work because at that point your logic endorses a society where nobody but the "affected" care enough to speak out and speak with the suffering. 

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