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cornfred666

Best Public High School Teams

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I think the national circuit/ toc/ top tier policy community should recognize the best policy team from a public high school. I'm good friends with two seniors from a supr lay public high school who've qualled to the TOC the past two years and I feel like they work a lot harder for way less reward than most kids with a full staff of coaches doing the card-cutting and case-writing that a public school team does independently.

 

Agree?

Disagree?

Horribly Offended?

 

Discuss and respond.

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Doesn't make sense. Just because a school is public doesn't necessarily mean it has low resources - GBN, GBS, Lex, Bronx Science, Hooch, New Trier, etc. etc. are all public schools with (if I'm not mistaken) big programs, big budgets, and a consistent track record of pumping out competitive debaters that is on par with many elite private schools.

 

It's fine if you want to identify and recognize the role that resource disparities play in shaping success. And there are definitely teams from public schools that have done really well in spite of having poor administrative and financial support from their districts. But using the public/private school binary is not the way to go here.

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Doesn't make sense. Just because a school is public doesn't necessarily mean it has low resources - GBN, GBS, Lex, Bronx Science, Hooch, New Trier, etc. etc. are all public schools with (if I'm not mistaken) big programs, big budgets, and a consistent track record of pumping out competitive debaters that is on par with many elite private schools.

 

It's fine if you want to identify and recognize the role that resource disparities play in shaping success. And there are definitely teams from public schools that have done really well in spite of having poor administrative and financial support from their districts. But using the public/private school binary is not the way to go here.

 

True, there are public school teams that have a lot of coaches cutting cards for them, but i feel like they fall under the umbrella of

a. some sort of gifted hive mind charter school like Bronx Science

or

b. the pet project of a buncha bros who've known eachother since 'back at the 98 NDT' or what have you.

 

you can say that the private public school binary is 'not the way to go here', but then how can the national circuit community better recognize the kids who cut 200 impact defense cards, or wrote their 8 page 2NC Link extension on their own. Or better recognize the kids that actually had to like, brainstorm their own cases. Should we keep on pretending that everyones on an even playing field, or succumb to a sort of laissez-faire apathy that 'the best debaters will do good anyway, not my fault my private school had peacocks!!'.

 

Personally, i think it's fucked up cause resource disparity in debate trends more classist and elitist than an athletic endeavor like say basketball, but debaters constantly engage in this leftist circle jerk. I'm not slighting successful debaters, I'm just asking, should we recognize the kids who didn't have a bunch of bearded grad students holding their hands through bid rounds, and if we should recognize the teams on the fucked side of resources, how could we without offending TheHutt and his illk????

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True, there are public school teams that have a lot of coaches cutting cards for them, but i feel like they fall under the umbrella of

a. some sort of gifted hive mind charter school like Bronx Science

or

b. the pet project of a buncha bros who've known eachother since 'back at the 98 NDT' or what have you.

 

you can say that the private public school binary is 'not the way to go here', but then how can the national circuit community better recognize the kids who cut 200 impact defense cards, or wrote their 8 page 2NC Link extension on their own. Or better recognize the kids that actually had to like, brainstorm their own cases. Should we keep on pretending that everyones on an even playing field, or succumb to a sort of laissez-faire apathy that 'the best debaters will do good anyway, not my fault my private school had peacocks!!'.

 

Personally, i think it's fucked up cause resource disparity in debate trends more classist and elitist than an athletic endeavor like say basketball, but debaters constantly engage in this leftist circle jerk. I'm not slighting successful debaters, I'm just asking, should we recognize the kids who didn't have a bunch of bearded grad students holding their hands through bid rounds, and if we should recognize the teams on the fucked side of resources, how could we without offending TheHutt and his illk????

I think you're getting unnecessarily mad at a pretty valid point. TheHutt isn't saying that we shouldn't recognize resource disparity, he's just saying that the public/private school binary isn't a good way to differentiate teams. If we used that system, we would be praising teams like GBN, GBS and Chattahoochee, all of which have lots of coaches that cut cards and write blocks for them. Ignoring gifted/charter schools narrows the list a little, but I don't think that applies to the 3 schools I just listed. I'm also not sure what kind of schools fit the "pet project" category that you're talking about. GBN, GBS and Hooch all have a long history of success that I don't think has much to do with alum support.

 

To recognize teams that have succeeded despite not having resources, we could probably just name schools/teams that we know fit that description. We probably don't need an objective brightline to make these determinations. Anyone that knows about Dunwoody's situation knows that their success over the past few years has been very impressive, even compared to other public school in metro Atlanta (i.e. Chattahoochee). Both are rich public schools, but the Dunwoody team is not nearly as well funded or well supported. 

 

Note: I don't go to Dunwoody, but I do go to a public school with few resources. 

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you can say that the private public school binary is 'not the way to go here', but then how can the national circuit community better recognize the kids who cut 200 impact defense cards, or wrote their 8 page 2NC Link extension on their own????

 

that's all i'm asking, sorry for creating a binary bro. Is anyone gonna agree that these kids need more recognition? or just continue to cite examples of public schools who did good? Cause i don't think i'm unecessarily mad, i'm just trying to make people think about shit like this.

 

you ever thought about why policy debate is shrinking as a community? It seems like the schools with resources disparity are waking up to realize that can't compete against the old boys club. I know this is happening at several public schools in Southern California...

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Personally, i think it's fucked up cause resource disparity in debate trends more classist and elitist than an athletic endeavor like say basketball, but debaters constantly engage in this leftist circle jerk. I'm not slighting successful debaters, I'm just asking, should we recognize the kids who didn't have a bunch of bearded grad students holding their hands through bid rounds, and if we should recognize the teams on the fucked side of resources, how could we without offending TheHutt and his illk????

 

This is ironic in so many different ways.

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This is ironic in so many different ways.

 

how? enlighten me. i didn't know i was so ignorant. please, i need to know how stupid i am.

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Personally, i think it's fucked up cause resource disparity in debate trends more classist and elitist than an athletic endeavor like say basketball, but debaters constantly engage in this leftist circle jerk.

 

Could you please explain how the leftist circle jerk has led to classism/elitism in debate, Paul Ryan?

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Could you please explain how the leftist circle jerk has led to classism/elitism in debate, Paul Ryan?

he's saying debater's are elitist but like to pretend they're liberal, common-folk loving people.  Hence why we have kids with laptops going to insanely expensive private schools reading about the evils of Capitalism.

 

That being said, although i do feel like private schools have more resources that public ones in general, its not the best binary to judge by.  As the hutt articulates, and cornfred misunderstands, public schools can have just as many rich assholes and prep coaches(fuck these guys btw, epitome of what's wrong with debate) as private ones.  And not all private schools are debate-oriented either, which means they can also have tiny budgets.

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how? enlighten me. i didn't know i was so ignorant. please, i need to know how stupid i am.

 

Cut the crap. I debated at a school "on the fucked side of resources." I still help out my school without getting paid, save for covering my costs at the occasional tournament i judge at. 

 

They (McClatchy) have six TOC bids this year. Which, you know, probably means they would sweep every accolade you want to sign them up for.

 

Try upgrading your privilege detector before you rush to pass judgment on people you know nothing about.

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Cut the crap. I debated at a school "on the fucked side of resources." I still help out my school without getting paid, save for covering my costs at the occasional tournament i judge at. 

 

They (McClatchy) have six TOC bids this year. Which, you know, probably means they would sweep every accolade you want to sign them up for.

 

Try upgrading your privilege detector before you rush to pass judgment on people you know nothing about.

 

SO MUCH IRONY I'M MINDFUCKED!!!

dude would they have 6 toc bids without you? nope.

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SO MUCH IRONY I'M MINDFUCKED!!!

dude would they have 6 toc bids without you? nope.

 

ITT: overestimating Nick's debate acumen.

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guess i'm ignant too the circuit. still anyone wanna talk about dis:

 

you ever thought about why policy debate is shrinking as a community? It seems like the schools with resources disparity are waking up to realize that can't compete against the old boys club. I know this is happening at several public schools in Southern California...

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Could you please explain how the leftist circle jerk has led to classism/elitism in debate, Paul Ryan?

 

your a dumb fuck if u think i'm linking the leftist circle jerk to classism in debate. and even dumber comparing me to paul ryan. i'm calling out the fucks who appeal to leftist social policy from positions of privelege.

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your a dumb fuck if u think i'm linking the leftist circle jerk to classism in debate. and even dumber comparing me to paul ryan. i'm calling out the fucks who appeal to leftist social policy from positions of privelege.

 

I don't think I'm dumb for asking why you would like to brand people who attend resource-rich schools as individuals who cannot rightfully have leftist political ideologies. I understand where you are coming from, but I feel like you shouldn't be so quick to pass judgment on kids who do well just because they go to schools with plenty of resources. I personally attend a public school with 70% of kids on the free and reduced lunch program (which is bad for a town in southeast Kansas with less than 12k population) and we maintain a decent budget while doing half-way decently on our circuit. 

 

I also don't understand where this animosity is coming from. I don't think kids who attend private schools necessarily have a choice between going to a school in East St. Louis versus a private school in Texas and I don't think we can necessarily blame them for choosing to go to private school if they were born into wealthy families. YOU are dumb if you think calling me or those alleged hypocritical leftists "dumb fucks" is going to right the wrongs that has been done to your program. 

 

Also, you apparently are linking this leftist circle jerk to classism in debate otherwise you wouldn't have said what I quoted you as saying. I compared you to Paul Ryan because you appear to be making conspiracy theories about how debate has become a leftist, elitist circle jerk that actively prevents public schools from ever doing well. If this is not true, then please explain yourself.

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I don't think I'm dumb for asking why you would like to brand people who attend resource-rich schools as individuals who cannot rightfully have leftist political ideologies. I understand where you are coming from, but I feel like you shouldn't be so quick to pass judgment on kids who do well just because they go to schools with plenty of resources. I personally attend a public school with 70% of kids on the free and reduced lunch program (which is bad for a town in southeast Kansas with less than 12k population) and we maintain a decent budget while doing half-way decently on our circuit. 

 

I also don't understand where this animosity is coming from. I don't think kids who attend private schools necessarily have a choice between going to a school in East St. Louis versus a private school in Texas and I don't think we can necessarily blame them for choosing to go to private school if they were born into wealthy families. YOU are dumb if you think calling me or those alleged hypocritical leftists "dumb fucks" is going to right the wrongs that has been done to your program. 

 

Also, you apparently are linking this leftist circle jerk to classism in debate otherwise you wouldn't have said what I quoted you as saying. I compared you to Paul Ryan because you appear to be making conspiracy theories about how debate has become a leftist, elitist circle jerk that actively prevents public schools from ever doing well. If this is not true, then please explain yourself.

 

First, I apologize for calling you a dumb fuck, I was directing my anger at the wrong place. ( I do have magnificent control over the english language, i just don't rly care about my grammar on online forums))

 

Secondly, this animosity is coming from watching 2 of my close friends work their asses off for 4 years, qual twice, and now go into this years TOC convinced they may break, but are not able to win simply because of resource disparity.

 

thirdly, you can have a leftist ideology, but i don't think ppl have any right to run discursive k's if they were written by private coaches or if their doing nothing about their impacts other than sitting behind computers with their hands on their dicks.

 

finally, i'm not saying that big programs are actively working to squash out little one's, i'm just saying that resource disparity is becoming a bigger issue, and that's the reason teams like mine are leaving policy for po-fo or ld, not because their more educational, but because anyone with a brain and some free time can have moderate success on those types of circuits, while policy requires a lot moar money. this is not a conspiracy theory, this is what i see as the reality of the situation. policy will always stick around, but i don't think there will be many teams left by the end of this decade, at least significantly less teams than in the 90's.

i said policy trends more classist and elitist than basketball because it requires it's players to be in positions of privelege (at the right school with the right resources and right coaches), while basketball can be practiced anywhere, and talent is noticed early and talent can flourish under the right direction.

 

I just wish there was something the community could do to even out the playing field a bit, so more people could participate in the activity as it's very fun and educational.

 

but fuck it, sorry if i offended ne1.

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