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What State Has The Worst Policy Debators As A Whole

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People, CALM DOWN.

 

The OP was really simple--it asked for ONE STATE.

 

 

I say MONTANA

 

Why?

 

 

Can any of you name 3 universities in Montana off the top of your head?

 

 

Didn't think so.

 

 

Montana's so rural, and has such a low population density, it's practically impossible to even have a tournament.

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Yeah They Only Do Policy For the First Halfish Year. Though they Do have some good teams. Buhler BS Was a Finalist at CFLS Last years

 

And managed to get beat by SD... For real though this thread is ultimately stupid and juvinile. Every state has teams that need help or programs that don't evaluate success in the same way the national circuit does and y'all should respect that. There isn't any worst debater or team or state. Go Huskers!

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RE: Wyoming.

 

To be fair, my guess is in pockets Wyoming judges probably aren't stellar. The debate juding horror stories aren't unique to any one state. (which probably means this is my narrative versus your narrative type of discussion.) And then the discussion becomes one of judging pool.......which in some ways really might be the heart of this discussion. You were lucky enough to stumble into a pretty decent judging pool versus these other folks.

 

There are a number of quality folks that have come out of the Wyoming circuit.

There was one program in particular--I'm sure there are more. I believe that program was a feeder for the Wyoming & Kansas college debate programs--more the former than the later.

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"Lay 'X'" has existed forever, but it usually refers to someone who only infrequently does that thing and who isn't really experienced in that field. I don't think that you were talking about novices, so I think my interpretation of the phrase makes more sense than your intended one. Taking the connotations from "lay judge" and moving them over towards debaters who are experienced yet unskilled seems like a more obvious interpretation.

 

...

 

That said, Kansas is probably worse.

 

I don't know if you coined this phrase intentionally, or if it's a thing elsewhere, but I'm using it from now on. Lay debaters are debaters who naturally debate with low logical intensity

 

Regardless as to whether or not the term "Lay Debater" makes a lot of sense (it doesn't), it has existed forever (at least, it has on the Kansas circuit). It generally refers to a debater who prefers the slow style of debate and debating for lay judges. That's not equivalent to "debating with low logical intensity".

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It generally refers to a debater who prefers the slow style of debate and debating for lay judges. That's not equivalent to "debating with low logical intensity".

 

Yes it does. Maybe you're just taking issue with how I phrased it as an absolute, but relative to nonlay debating it has lower logical intensity. Slower means fewer arguments, debating for lay judges means that there's a greater emphasis on persuasion, often to the point where persuasion can beat solid logical arguments. That seems fairly synonymous to me.

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There are maybe 3 half decent policy teams (mine own included) in the entirety of Virginia. Count your blessings.

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Missouri's easily the worst:

1. no major nat circuit teams except Barstow

2. policy debate is in heavy decline and interp and speech events are in heavy uprisings

3. See thread about how MO Policy debate's the worst in the Missouri- no judging quality at all, no coaches willing to make an effort to change

4. Hatred of college debate- general the good debate states also have good colleges with good policy programs- most coaches here hate college debate in state (Missouri State only basically) and out of state

5. MHSHAA (Missouri HS Activity Association) has lots of restrictions that prevent good debate

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In defense of Kansas debate, I think a few things need to be recognized. Other people have mentioned the current success of some teams, so I won't talk about that.

 

Kansas' policy debate season begins in mid-September and ends with State in January. From January through the end of second semester, all other events are done. This includes even other debate events like LD, and "debate" events like PFD (sorry, Missouri).

 

The effect of this split season is that Kansas has huge participation in debate. The state has 2.8 million people living there; we have qualified 18+ policy debate teams to nationals every year for quite some time. Eighteen. That's six districts (East Kansas, Three Trails, West Kansas, South Kansas, Sunflower, and Flint Hills), each putting forth 30+ teams at the qualifier. In sum, that's an absolute minimum of 180 teams debating at the NFL qualifiers every year, and teams are rather limited in how many teams each school can send.

 

Kansas has some of the largest programs in the nation. In terms of degrees, we boast the 2nd-largest program and 5 of the largest 25. The level of participation per capita is likely beyond any measure of comparison as a result of this split season, and is probably exceedingly high compared to many other states.

 

In terms of new degrees, Kansas has 7 of the top 22 programs as well.

 

In addition, many of those debaters compete at 8 policy debate tournaments during the season, not including the NFL qualifier or state. During forensics season, these debaters often compete in up to 8 forensics tournaments.

 

With this extremely high number of people debating compared to a low state population, hosting many tournaments across the state each week is no simple task. It is impossible to have an experienced judge in every single round, especially in more rural areas outside of Kansas City, Lawrence, Topeka, and Wichita. Parents and other lay judges are a necessity to support this high level of participation, and we're extremely thankful for their help. Each week, we have varsity divisions where many experienced judges and teams congregate, resulting in a well-developed varsity division.

 

Mentioning Kansas in this thread makes even less sense when you consider the success of Kansas debaters. Off the top of my head, Kansas has had two top speakers at NFL in the last 5 years, including a team in finals. We've also had great showings at CFL. A conflict between the ToC and the state's high school activity association makes competing at circuit tournaments difficult, and yet the few teams Kansas has been able to send have been successful this year.

 

tl;dr: I'm proud of the debate community in which and for which I competed, and for which I now coach. Our level of participation and success is continually understated or unknown throughout the nation, and frankly, there's no reason that should be the case. Other states are great as well, but it makes absolutely no sense to single Kansas out as the state with "the worst policy debaters as a whole." That's ignorant, at best.

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Indiana.

 

Here in the Crossroads of America, the progressive teams have taught themselves to run counterplans and they are nigh on unbeatable. Kritik is a dirty word. I have never had a judge that liked topicality, and every judge we've asked hates theory with a passion. The judges are generally poor, and the coaches aren't much better. It's the same schools and the same opponents and the same judges every tournament.

 

National circuit? What national circuit?

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I can't believe nobody has said Idaho yet.

I'll take that one as a pat on the shoulder.

 

My pick is either Wyoming or Montana.

Only states more rural than Idaho.

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I can't believe nobody has said Idaho yet.

I'll take that one as a pat on the shoulder.

 

I think there are a few potatoes in Idaho that aren't bad... not the fastest debaters though

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Wyoming, wyoming, wyoming.. They still like to think of debate as a cutesy communication event (I.E. they don't spread, tend to only debate stock issues and totally resist the idea of a kritik being a legitamate argument)

 

Last time I was up there for a tournament (Cheyenne East, TOC bid tournament for individual events, as far as policy goes it's literally just all the best teams from Colorado debating eachother while the occasional Wyoming team will get thrown in and slaughtered) 2nd round I hit a wyoming team with a wyoming judge (His flow made me want to barf and he missed like 70% of our 1AC) they ran nothing but "Speed bad for debate" and won. Despite dropping NINE LINK TURNS. Their whole argument was about how debate is exclusionary to people who don't speak english as a first language and other people who are otherwise impaired or prevented from learning how to spread.

 

..My partner moved here from Ukraine when she was 4 and had a horrible studder until she was 10. I made a preformative perm in the 2AC that was "My partner is going to deliver her 1AR in a way that wouldn't require that she conform to the existing structure of policy debate, if you find this to be worse for education then vote aff"

 

She gave to 1AR in russian. They were all totally boggled. It was hilarious. But the judge was from wyoming, so we still lost. Probably thought she was trying to fill his head with communism or something.

 

I literally have never been so mad at the end of a round in my life. Will forever hate wyoming. Haha.

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