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John Quinto

Limits to Arguments

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Is there a limit to how many types of arguments to run without looking ridiculously abusive to everyone in the room? Usually, my limits for off-case are 3 DAs, 1 K, 2 Ts, 1 CP.

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The way I see it, it only gets abusive in the T's if they're reasonably topical. On DA's, I don't really think there's a point where the neg is being abusive. On K's and CP's, most people default to one of each, although I could see two of one or two of the other without it being abusive. It really only gets abusive when they spend the whole 2AC answering something they think you're going for, and then you go for the under covered thing.

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So abuse only happens when I run a bunch of condo stuff, and let them attack one thing and go for what they conceded the most to and kick off anything I lost? Makes sense. Thanks.

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It really only gets abusive when they spend the whole 2AC answering something they think you're going for, and then you go for the under covered thing.

 

Really? I think that sounds more like a fault of the 2ac for not effectively putting the right arguments on the undercovered arguments.

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Really? I think that sounds more like a fault of the 2ac for not effectively putting the right arguments on the undercovered arguments.

 

I mean, I think it's more abusive when they read like 3 or 4 condo, and then the 2AC spends a little bit more time on one, they kick that one in the block, and then after they've destroyed the 1AR with the 2 or 3 more under covered ones, they go for the easiest in the 2NR. That's when I think a judge should vote on Condo, when there's actually abuse in the 1AR.

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I mean, I think it's more abusive when they read like 3 or 4 condo, and then the 2AC spends a little bit more time on one, they kick that one in the block, and then after they've destroyed the 1AR with the 2 or 3 more under covered ones, they go for the easiest in the 2NR. That's when I think a judge should vote on Condo, when there's actually abuse in the 1AR.

 

That I understand, but I feel like when there's just like 2 CP's that aren't completely contradictory, condo isn't much of an argument

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That I understand, but I feel like when there's just like 2 CP's that aren't completely contradictory, condo isn't much of an argument

Oh no, not at all, in fact I think it's annoying when people read Condo when there isn't really any abuse. I mean, it's pretty much whining about what's normal in debate rounds. I know they read it as a time suck but you can't really time suck the block, and the 2NR won't really be that disadvantaged by it. I think that sometimes it even hurts the Aff because they're trying to answer the entire block in the 1AR as well as answering and extending Condo.

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We lost on condo at our last tournament. We kicked the cp and went for the kritik, and they blew up a tiny, 3-point condo block snuck into the 2AC. In the block I was like "well damn, all the time you spent talking about how abusive we are could have been spent putting arguments on the things you missed. The judge voted on perm: do alt minus the neg ballot, which made absolutely no sense, but it was the second time the judge had screwed me over so I just pack up my stuff and left. If I'd had any other judge I would've won.

 

I personally think answering arguments is an aff issue. If it's not OUT OF THIS WORLD, WTF ARE YOU THINKING abusive (meaning like 5-10+ off case arguments), then the aff should stfu and take it. Instead of crying about abusiveness, they could learn proper time allocation and actually think about what viable options there are for the neg. I think I've read a condo block maybe once before, but I guess some judges like it more than others.

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Hahaha... I just had a vdebate round with 14 off... but they answered every one of them and I went for T/FXT. I've never heard that perm before, but I think I'm going to do it next time it's strategic. Sounds fun lol. I do think that answering arguments rather than going for theory is usually an aff burden, but I've gone for condo a couple of times, usually when I was spread out of the block.

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This is an interesting article on the direction of condo in debates, and specifically abusive styles of arguments. I think the discussion here has focused too much on quantity of arguments instead of content -- does reading theoretically illegitimate arguments multiply condo abuse, for instance? I tend to think so, though it's not often both theories are read or debaters bring up their interactions.

 

http://lastword.the3nr.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Multiple-Conditional-Advocacies-and-Advocating-Permutations-Atchison.pdf

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Negative fiat bad is in my opinion a superior alternative to arguing that the negative isn't allowed even one conditional advocacy.

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Negative fiat bad is in my opinion a superior alternative to arguing that the negative isn't allowed even one conditional advocacy.

 

I agree, because saying that the private sector or something like US + China will do the plan, and not having to prove they will, gives the neg way too much ground.

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