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Bataille

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Hey, I was wondering exactly how Bataille would relate to this year's space topic?? Is he an aff author or a neg author? If you could also explain your reasoning for your answer and if yes, exactly how that would work? That would be really awesome! Thanks in advance =)

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Probably a neg author

 

Especially if the neg acquires resources (aka mining)

 

SACRIFICE THE AFF BITCHEZ

 

Could you please explain:

 

1) Why that NEG would be acquiring resources??

2) What you exactly mean by "sacrifice the aff"

 

Sorry, I'm not really well versed in Bataille. I wanted to read some of his books, but the copies that were posted in the articles/books section are kinda all broken links lol

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Oops I meant aff acquiring resources. Essentially (one of) Bataille's kritiks is that there is an excess of energy we need. When we attempt to "store" or "hoard" this excess energy (via the aff's plan to save lives, resources, etc) this excess is used violently by the state to exploit people, cause genocide, etc basically do a bunch of really bad things with it, BECAUSE this mindset perpetrates a Other that is unrecognizable. So Bataille alternative is to sacrifice the excess of the 1ac, creating a intimacy with death that brings us to terms with the Other.

 

I'm probably butchering it, its been a while since I've debated, but I do have a file I can trade you

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Oops I meant aff acquiring resources. Essentially (one of) Bataille's kritiks is that there is an excess of energy we need. When we attempt to "store" or "hoard" this excess energy (via the aff's plan to save lives, resources, etc) this excess is used violently by the state to exploit people, cause genocide, etc basically do a bunch of really bad things with it, BECAUSE this mindset perpetrates a Other that is unrecognizable. So Bataille alternative is to sacrifice the excess of the 1ac, creating a intimacy with death that brings us to terms with the Other.

 

I'm probably butchering it, its been a while since I've debated, but I do have a file I can trade you

 

O, ok lol. And that makes sense at least from a philosophical sense...

 

And I wish I had something legit I could trade you that isn't a camp file. All I have is a half completed Security compilation which has like almost 300 pages of links so far, a Space topic specific K and some theory stuff... I wish I could trade you for it though lol

 

Would there be a way to twist Bataille into an aff this year?? And also, how would you answer a K like this besides different perms to sacrifice (I have a file somewhere that has like 10 perms specific to sacrifice, but I never understood it lol) and energy storage good. Could you possibly argue that the Other is already unrecognizable? Or near death experiences (like a brink of the aff?? o.O) Solve the intimacy with death?? Also, would it be possible to argue that Cap (for example) is the overlying system creating this mindset and that if you get rid of capitalism, that would encompass the K impact??

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O, ok lol. And that makes sense at least from a philosophical sense...

 

And I wish I had something legit I could trade you that isn't a camp file. All I have is a half completed Security compilation which has like almost 300 pages of links so far, a Space topic specific K and some theory stuff... I wish I could trade you for it though lol

 

Would there be a way to twist Bataille into an aff this year?? And also, how would you answer a K like this besides different perms to sacrifice (I have a file somewhere that has like 10 perms specific to sacrifice, but I never understood it lol) and energy storage good. Could you possibly argue that the Other is already unrecognizable? Or near death experiences (like a brink of the aff?? o.O) Solve the intimacy with death?? Also, would it be possible to argue that Cap (for example) is the overlying system creating this mindset and that if you get rid of capitalism, that would encompass the K impact??

 

After looking at the file, you should note that another aspect of this particular Bataille K is how the aff interacts with the state. Because the state is the one who abuses the excess energy (the accumulation of the plan), the plan (policy) thus supports the state violent tendencies, or the plan (kritikal) places ethical restraints on the state that only support its importance and actually fuel the state's destructive tendencies. The Other comes into play with the alternative really (my previous post was slightly misleading). The actually alt text is "Sacrifice the 1ac. Sever its head, flay its corpse, wear its skin." By sacrificing the 1ac, we sacrifice the 1ac's good, which Bataille argues give us a sense of liberation and defines our sovereignty as separate from the state. Wearing its skin brings us into this intimate contact with death and with the Other, which breaks down violent tendencies to make us distinct from the state as well.

 

You could argue several things against this K:

 

1) State is inevitable

2) State is good

3) Excess inevitable

4) Sacrifice is bad

5) Sacrifice won't solve

6) Perm- sacrifice the alt (not sure how that would go down in a round but it would be fun to see how they respond to it)

7) Ethics come first

8) Ethics key

9) Framework

 

That is for a policy aff. For a kritikal aff, you can also:

 

1) Use the 1ac to kritik the logic of the K

2) Impact or link turn the K

3) Case solves the impact

4) Case outweighs

5) We are a sacrifice (depending on what your 1ac kritik is)

 

As for using Bataille as an aff. There are a couple of options off the top of my head:

 

1) Ironic advocacy of collecting resources (judge, we absolutely HAVE to get these resources) is always a possibility

2) Sacrifice the moon (it has a lot of resources on it we could use) or some other celestial body

3) Use Bataille as a gateway type aff (space exploration is inevitable, all that matters is how we go about exploring space, plan is key to shift mindset away from state's violent tendencies)

 

Final note: I can get you the file, just pm me

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After looking at the file, you should note that another aspect of this particular Bataille K is how the aff interacts with the state. Because the state is the one who abuses the excess energy (the accumulation of the plan), the plan (policy) thus supports the state violent tendencies, or the plan (kritikal) places ethical restraints on the state that only support its importance and actually fuel the state's destructive tendencies. The Other comes into play with the alternative really (my previous post was slightly misleading). The actually alt text is "Sacrifice the 1ac. Sever its head, flay its corpse, wear its skin." By sacrificing the 1ac, we sacrifice the 1ac's good, which Bataille argues give us a sense of liberation and defines our sovereignty as separate from the state. Wearing its skin brings us into this intimate contact with death and with the Other, which breaks down violent tendencies to make us distinct from the state as well.

 

You could argue several things against this K:

 

1) State is inevitable

2) State is good

3) Excess inevitable

4) Sacrifice is bad

5) Sacrifice won't solve

6) Perm- sacrifice the alt (not sure how that would go down in a round but it would be fun to see how they respond to it)

7) Ethics come first

8) Ethics key

9) Framework

 

That is for a policy aff. For a kritikal aff, you can also:

 

1) Use the 1ac to kritik the logic of the K

2) Impact or link turn the K

3) Case solves the impact

4) Case outweighs

5) We are a sacrifice (depending on what your 1ac kritik is)

 

As for using Bataille as an aff. There are a couple of options off the top of my head:

 

1) Ironic advocacy of collecting resources (judge, we absolutely HAVE to get these resources) is always a possibility

2) Sacrifice the moon (it has a lot of resources on it we could use) or some other celestial body

3) Use Bataille as a gateway type aff (space exploration is inevitable, all that matters is how we go about exploring space, plan is key to shift mindset away from state's violent tendencies)

 

Final note: I can get you the file, just pm me

 

Thanks for the explanations and advice, it makes a ton more sense now! The only thing I don't get is, how would we go about sacrificing the moon. Also, I will be PMing you shortly, thanks again =)

 

UTNIF put out a space elevator with Bataille advantages.

 

I had seen that, but I didn't really understand how it was related to Bataille. I think I do now... The only real Bataillean is the General Economy advantage. The argument it makes is that we need to sacrifice (get rid of our current notions) of how our economy works and embrace a broader perspective in order to ensure that our economy avoids the tipping point. Am I right?

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The only thing I don't get is, how would we go about sacrificing the moon.

 

You could always nuke it, but that might be problematic. Other options might be covering it in spikes so no one can land on it or otherwise destroying the landscape.

 

Probably the most effective way to run this is to interpret fiat as imagining the plan happening, as opposed to actually advocating it happen. For more help on kritikal affs, you can reference this free lecture on K affs that is pretty good.

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You could always nuke it, but that might be problematic. Other options might be covering it in spikes so no one can land on it or otherwise destroying the landscape.

 

Probably the most effective way to run this is to interpret fiat as imagining the plan happening, as opposed to actually advocating it happen. For more help on kritikal affs, you can reference this free lecture on K affs that is pretty good.

 

Thanks!

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Thanks for the explanations and advice, it makes a ton more sense now! The only thing I don't get is, how would we go about sacrificing the moon. Also, I will be PMing you shortly, thanks again =)

 

 

 

I had seen that, but I didn't really understand how it was related to Bataille. I think I do now... The only real Bataillean is the General Economy advantage. The argument it makes is that we need to sacrifice (get rid of our current notions) of how our economy works and embrace a broader perspective in order to ensure that our economy avoids the tipping point. Am I right?

 

not exactly. Given that I do not know much about Bataille it seems like you are focusing too much on Bataille's theories on sacrifice which were the focal point of the UTNIF bataille file from last year, however, Bataille wrote about many different things. The general economy stuff is a reference to Bataille's work on The Accursed Share. The tag for the curtis 6 ev explains this some or you can check the wikipedia page on the Accursed Share for more info.

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