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dorkhunter420

Parliamentary Debate is Superior to Policy Debate

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Policy debate is and will be an insanely stupid event in which most teams link everything to nuclear war and the rest of the teams make idiotic critical theory arguments that libtard judges will eat up. There is a reason every other English speaking country in the world does parliamentary debate.

Edited by dorkhunter420
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Parly is like Pufo.

It's policy minus the spreading, logic and ability to think.

 

Edit: Before you say it's non-responsive, it's called a "new-off". It attacks a different part of your idea that haven't been touched on as of yet.

 

I completely disagree with you here. I did Parli in college for 4 years, policy and LD in high school, learned how to spread and debated the K somewhat successfully.

 

The parli circuit I was in had a lot of ex-high school policy debaters who didn't want to have the 50-hour a week time commitment for CEDA/NDT (or schools that didn't have the budget for those tournaments). There was a lot of good argumentation, we applied Ks, DAs, T and other "traditional" policy-like arguments, though it's true that we did not have the ability to use evidence. However, teams that were obviously lying or pulling arguments straight out of their asses were often called on it, and good judges did not allow that sort of crap to happen.

 

I think the problem is HS parli because the vast majority of students who start there (1) don't understand debate theory, and get lost in the arguments; (2) don't understand how to flow, so everyone gets confused on structure; and (3) don't have enough general knowledge or background in current events (with the exception of extempers) and therefore don't understand how the resolutions apply.

 

If done well, parli rounds can be very fun to watch and have very well structured arguments. But, the debaters need to know the fundamentals taught in either LD or Policy for it to be really effective.

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Guys, come on. Both formats can be amazing and effective when done well--this whole argument is like arguing pairs skating versus ice dance.

 

I, for one, have zero background in policy or LD, yet I'm an up-and-coming parli debater (my partner and I are ranked tenth in the NE, and we've only been competing together for a month and a half). You don't need one to become fantastic at the other. What you do need are motivation, dedication, lots of practice, a good coach, and the willingness to do research.

 

Also, this whole line of argumentation concerning parli having no logic, evidence, or ruining one's thinking ability is, to be quite blunt, a load of BS. Have you ever actually watched a good BP round--say from WUDC? I'd go do that before you say anything else. (I highly recommend the 2011 final round--so good!) Most misconceptions about anything come from either ignorance or poor experience; therefore they're generally not a good gauge. Let's not assess a format by the worst rounds debated, or by our limited personal experience, or by our affinity for another format. Furthermore, we're debaters; can we please avoid the lovely logical fallacies of ad hominem and hasty generalizations?

 

Oh, and by the way: even schools that primarily compete in policy or APDA send teams to WUDC. Yeah, 'cause it's that big of a deal.

Edited by underthefloor12
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2. Since this thread is designed for LD, PF, Congress, Parli and other debaters to come for help and support, there is zero-tolerance for mocking those events or their participants. There are plenty of other forums on this site to do that. Legitimate criticism or comparisons of an event or its elements is fine, but one-liner insults and unwarranted attacks on an event or its participants is not.

 

Genuine comparison and criticism is permissible. The stuff I just deleted is not. Let's keep it civil.

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did you read the first post?

Yes I did. Ideally, I would have deleted that too, but that would delete the whole thread even though there are constructive posts that follow. Also, this is for "Other Debates" so although unwarranted claims and ad homs are still disfavored and subject to moderator modification, there is no zero-tolerance rule for insulting Policy...

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@ Under the Floor - I've heard of APDA, but I'm not that familiar with it because my understanding is that it is based mostly in the eastern part of the country. My school only did NPDA/CEDA. What are the main differences between NPDA and APDA, if you don't mind me asking?

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@ Under the Floor - I've heard of APDA, but I'm not that familiar with it because my understanding is that it is based mostly in the eastern part of the country. My school only did NPDA/CEDA. What are the main differences between NPDA and APDA, if you don't mind me asking?

 

I actually don't do either APDA or NPDA. I do British parli/Worlds-format, which is a bit different (and, in my mind, better in some respects than AP)--I'm more than happy to explain the differences to you, if you want!

Edited by underthefloor12

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Nah, that's OK. Each year at NPDA Nats they had a demonstration of Worlds Debate between some select NPDA kids and a hand-selected team from Ireland. I agree that in a lot of ways its a lot better than parli, and WAY better than PoFo. What are the big schools that are in your circuit?

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Nah, that's OK. Each year at NPDA Nats they had a demonstration of Worlds Debate between some select NPDA kids and a hand-selected team from Ireland. I agree that in a lot of ways its a lot better than parli, and WAY better than PoFo. What are the big schools that are in your circuit?

 

Firstly, kudos to NPDA Nats on picking an Irish team--they're always fantastic. One of my favorite judges (Stephen Boyle) was in the '08 NPDA/Irish debate...though I don't think those debates follow actual Worlds format.

 

Well, it depends what region you're in, because so many schools do BP, but some of the biggest are Oxford, Monash, Dublin, St. John's, UVM, Portland State, and Claremont. What about NPDA?

Edited by underthefloor12

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Firstly, kudos to NPDA Nats on picking an Irish team--they're always fantastic. One of my favorite judges (Stephen Boyle) was in the '08 NPDA/Irish debate...though I don't think those debates follow actual Worlds format.

 

Well, it depends what region you're in, because so many schools do BP, but some of the biggest are Oxford, Monash, Dublin, St. John's, UVM, Portland State, and Claremont. What about NPDA?

 

I'm assuming that you're talking about Portland, Maine instead of Portland, Oregon's PSU :) It sounds like you go out of the country quite a bit which is awesome.

 

Although I debated in the Northwest Forensic Conference, I think that many of those schools were quite succesful at NPDA too. Really good NPDA schools included Oregon, Puget Sound, Lewis & Clark, Caroll, Whitman, Air Force, Boise State, College of Idaho (my alma mater) and Reed were all quite good. Unfortunately, NPDA national tournaments were quite expensive, so C of I goes to Pi Kappa Delta quals/nats now instead of NPDA.

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I'm assuming that you're talking about Portland, Maine instead of Portland, Oregon's PSU :) It sounds like you go out of the country quite a bit which is awesome.

 

Although I debated in the Northwest Forensic Conference, I think that many of those schools were quite succesful at NPDA too. Really good NPDA schools included Oregon, Puget Sound, Lewis & Clark, Caroll, Whitman, Air Force, Boise State, College of Idaho (my alma mater) and Reed were all quite good. Unfortunately, NPDA national tournaments were quite expensive, so C of I goes to Pi Kappa Delta quals/nats now instead of NPDA.

 

Actually, I meant Portland, OR =] BP doesn't really have circuits--even though we have regionals, they're open to teams from all areas, like most tournaments. So, for example, we had a few teams from the Midwest competing at the NEUDC regionals about three weeks ago.

 

Ah, funding--the bane of our debate society's existence v.v

Edited by underthefloor12

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I personally would disagree that parli is superior to policy, but I do enjoy both forms of debate a lot. I do CX in high school, but I have seen multiple parli rounds and have gone to a parli tournament. My CX coach did parli in college. While I certaintly appreciate parli in many forms, it is educational and is VERY simular to policy in many ways, I also appreciate policy in its own way as well. I hope to be able to do both policy and parli in college because they both seem very fun. It is not fair to compare pufo and parli -- parli actually requires tech, research and structure.

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Yay--a reasonable person =p

 

I think the issues at stake are primarily accessibility and academic value. I'm totes interested in hearing everyone's thoughts. What makes parli (or policy) more accessible? More valuable to the academic community?

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I personally would disagree that parli is superior to policy, but I do enjoy both forms of debate a lot. I do CX in high school, but I have seen multiple parli rounds and have gone to a parli tournament. My CX coach did parli in college. While I certaintly appreciate parli in many forms, it is educational and is VERY simular to policy in many ways, I also appreciate policy in its own way as well. I hope to be able to do both policy and parli in college because they both seem very fun. It is not fair to compare pufo and parli -- parli actually requires tech, research and structure.

 

If I were you I would find a style of debate you like in college and stick with it. Trying to switch back and forth will cause you to not be as successful as you would be if you stuck with one. This is my prediction. Best of luck though. Also I recommend policy, I think you'll get more education out of it.(Although I respect all kinds of debate).

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