Neoliberalism vs. Capitalism....

[Guest svfrey]

christ, I should've kept this in theory so I could baleet all of these fucking irrelevant posts.

 

 

Scu/whoever the fuck is in charge around here now, you've got work to do.

[thechillsauce 46]

Okay no, there are actually people that live in poverty because they choose to do so, they don't want to mortgage a house, and deal with taxes and all that shit. I'm not saying everybody in poverty does this (I'm not that fucking stupid, I understand that there are some people who want to get out of poverty and can't) but Capitalism works most of the time, and if you think that there's some better way to do it that will have everyone in America (or in the world) living happy lives, go for it. It's not going to happen though, because a utopian society is impossible, there are always people who want more than they have, and there are always people who will be completely out of sync with the society. I agree that there are still some things that can be improved upon with Capitalism, but for now it's working out better than some other things could have, and we might as well leave it that way until somebody comes up with a better one.

[ButteredMuffin 1440]

Okay no, there are actually people that live in poverty because they choose to do so, they don't want to mortgage a house, and deal with taxes and all that shit. I'm not saying everybody in poverty does this (I'm not that fucking stupid, I understand that there are some people who want to get out of poverty and can't) but Capitalism works most of the time, and if you think that there's some better way to do it that will have everyone in America (or in the world) living happy lives, go for it. It's not going to happen though, because a utopian society is impossible, there are always people who want more than they have, and there are always people who will be completely out of sync with the society. I agree that there are still some things that can be improved upon with Capitalism, but for now it's working out better than some other things could have, and we might as well leave it that way until somebody comes up with a better one.

 

tl;dr long assertion

[thechillsauce 46]

tl;dr long assertion

 

I actually would have given you rep for that haha but

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Rawrcat again.

[LPCade 74]

Ok, if this is really going to happen on this thread, lets at least clear a few things up for the sake of discussion.

 

First, the US is by no means the epitome of capitalism worldwide. "American Capitalism" is basically neoliberalism, see my above post. Assertions that you'll only defend or talk about "American Capitalism" prove that you agree that it is beneficial to fetter the system of capitalism. Go ahead and defend neoliberalism if you want, but if there is going to be a discussion of whether capitalism is good or not as an entire system then I think it is better to work with further sides of the spectrum. I.E.

 

Is welfare good, yes or no?

Should the government regulate any business?

Does liberty outweigh equality?

Can a socialist society provide the same workers rights/privileges as Capitalism?

 

Same goes for those on the other side, don't illustrate capitalism as some African caste system, that's not indicative of the system, its indicative of the government

[ButteredMuffin 1440]

Actually, that whole debate just kind of died down

[thechillsauce 46]

I agree. I learned some stuff here. but still, some people do choose to be in poverty (or at least they choose to be unemployed for welfare)

[InTheFlesh 101]

I learned that cap is good

[thechillsauce 46]

I learned that cap is good

 

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Intheflesh again

[CRusso 33]

I'm on my iPhone so I'm not gonna go on about how fucking stupid of an assertion this is, but did you REALLY just say that?

 

This was a legitimate argument in Missouri debate last year. Soo many lay judges loved the idea that people chose to live a life in poverty.

 

In answer to the question, I assume you know what capitalism is, but neoliberalism is a specific type of capitalism, that can best be compared to Laissez Faire, unregulated capitalism. In economics, liberal and conservative are switched, conservative referring to a more government regulated economy, and liberal referring to market controlled. A neoliberal economy, refers specifically to an instance in which the free market not only is unregulated by the federal government, but also dictates political decisions based on economic interests, instead of the government controlling the free market. People will argue this is bad(which it is) because it as Rarcat mentioned, can lead to bills that allow business to run sweat shops, create shanty towns. In a simple phrase, private industry profit maximization becomes the sole focus of government politics, including over human life. You should really read the Santos article or any of Giroux's material. Milton Freedman is another author you should probably look into. You can almost make the argument that some forms of capitalism are good, but in the instance of neoliberalism, it is bad. And PMCs are the biggest component of neoliberalism.

 

Btw guys - Cap is good. It's k2 tech duh

[CRusso 33]

Okay no, there are actually people that live in poverty because they choose to do so, they don't want to mortgage a house, and deal with taxes and all that shit. I'm not saying everybody in poverty does this (I'm not that fucking stupid, I understand that there are some people who want to get out of poverty and can't) but Capitalism works most of the time, and if you think that there's some better way to do it that will have everyone in America (or in the world) living happy lives, go for it. It's not going to happen though, because a utopian society is impossible, there are always people who want more than they have, and there are always people who will be completely out of sync with the society. I agree that there are still some things that can be improved upon with Capitalism, but for now it's working out better than some other things could have, and we might as well leave it that way until somebody comes up with a better one.

 

Oh and don't be an asshole. http://www.globalissues.org/article/26/poverty-facts-and-stats

[thechillsauce 46]

Oh and don't be an asshole. http://www.globalissues.org/article/26/poverty-facts-and-stats

 

I got a little bit annoyed, didn't mean to be an asshole

[Vegrjrgrvecevtkgjwfbsc 312]

I'm on my iPhone so I'm not gonna go on about how fucking stupid of an assertion this is, but did you REALLY just say that?

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

fixed.

[Dark Talon 66]

hay guise, i herd you liek hegemony?

[...Hi... 586]

What's wrong with saying non-American capitalism? It would really help if instead of just calling me stupid, you tried to tell me what was wrong with what I said.

 

Because America adopted British Capitalsim. You should really watch Capitalism a Love Story. It's a Michael Moore film. I might just shift your views a little.

[...Hi... 586]

Okay no, there are actually people that live in poverty because they choose to do so, they don't want to mortgage a house, and deal with taxes and all that shit. I'm not saying everybody in poverty does this (I'm not that fucking stupid, I understand that there are some people who want to get out of poverty and can't) but Capitalism works for the people using it to get what they want most of the time, and if you think that there's some better way to do it that will have everyone in America (or in the world) living happy lives, go for it. It's not going to happen though, because a utopian society is utopian, there are always people who want more than they have, and there are always people who will be completely out of sync with the society. I agree that there are still some things that can be improved upon with Capitalism, but for now it's working out better than some other things could have, and we might as well leave it that way until we see all of the impacts of it.

 

fix'd.

[jbockmon 24]

Oh shit.

 

You just opened up the flood gates

QFA

[Josephl 166]

 

My humble understanding is that neoliberalism is a form of capitalism but it is when government begins to put its hand in business. Things like the Auto Bailout, trade regulations, etc, are examples of neoliberalism.

 

 

Although this thread has begun to take a new direction, for academic purposes I actually think neoliberalism is largely the opposite of this definition.

 

Neoliberalism, at least how it appears to me, is the next evolutionary form of capitalism. A form of capitalism that isn't constrained by state institutions or regulation and operates freely across the world through global corporations. Many see "Globalization" as one of the most visible effects of the paradigm of neoliberalism as it's a free market system that no longer revolve around state interests.

[-JD 95]

Evak is closest to being correct. Neoliberalism is the idea that all aspects of life (cultural, economic, individual, political) come to be described in the language of the markets. So under a neoliberal framework of thought, your friends are valuable not for their personal bonds, but for the economic incentives that they offer. Similarly, your culture becomes valuable only when it can allow itself to be commodified to create a profit.

 

Trade liberalization refers to there being few if any regulations on trade and business. What makes neoliberalism 'neo' is that the ideology of the markets roots itself into personal interactions. This gives liberalism a new form of justification as well as providing new markets.

[retired 2208]

Although this thread has begun to take a new direction, for academic purposes I actually think neoliberalism is largely the opposite of this definition.

 

Neoliberalism, at least how it appears to me, is the next evolutionary form of capitalism. A form of capitalism that isn't constrained by state institutions or regulation and operates freely across the world through global corporations. Many see "Globalization" as one of the most visible effects of the paradigm of neoliberalism as it's a free market system that no longer revolve around state interests.

 

the creation and use of extra-governmental economic institutions, often multinational in nature, that exercise powers of the sovereign, or something like that. - commonwealth

[ButteredMuffin 1440]

I watch Michael Moore films and think myself to be more informed and better than you as a person.

 

Fix'd

Edited March 30, 2011 by The Debater Formerly Known As Rawrcat

[bradp 8]

I think that Capitalism is more related to economy and that Neoliberalism is more related to politics...still, Neoliberalism is opposed to Capitalism since it's kind of socialist.

[retired 2208]

I think that Capitalism is more related to economy and that Neoliberalism is more related to politics...still, Neoliberalism is opposed to Capitalism since it's kind of socialist.

 

im at a loss for words. the deep thoughts of a ron paulite?

[CRusso 33]

Liberal economics are the exact same thing as liberal politics duh

[Studley Dudley 814]

im at a loss for words. the deep thoughts of a ron paulite?

 

This is why you're my favorite.