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RonPrice

Apologetics Anyone?

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chaos and nathan, i have no idea what were even debating?

 

which debate do you want me to win -- the jesus is probably not real debate, the evolution is more true than anything you say debate, or the religion horrible debate?

 

I feel like interjecting here on the part of the Roman Catholic Church. I think it's important that you distinguish us from nominal Christians, especially when it comes to issues like social justice and science.

 

As far as the question of evolution goes, Humani Generis from 1950 established that yea, evolution is probably happening, though not necessarily exactly how Darwin described it. That's Pius XII (I think). This is the first time the Catholic Church said anything at all about evolution, so I really don't understand where the idea comes from that Rome at some point declared the idea heretical or dangerous. In 1979 JP II confirmed what the Vatican had said earlier; the theory of evolution is strongly supported by empirical evidence, and can probably safely be considered a Truth. That's highly compatible with the Church's dogma about the human person, and specifically, the Theology of the Body.

 

So the question becomes, if the Catholic Church says "yes evolution," how can evolution be "more true than anything it says." I was going to do "Jesus isn't real" and "religion is horrible," but I think we should finish this up first.

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Earlier on the thread there was some discussion of string theory & related concepts....I recently ran across this lecture from a mathematician on string theory & m-theory & hawking & the multiverse.

 

Cal Tech speech critique of the enlightenment reason (starts at about 18 minutes and goes to 32 minutes). He argues for embedding it in something larger. He quotes CS Lewis in a Kuhnian way that the current age blinds us to the assumptions that undergird enlightenment reason (dualism & mechanical viewpoint--"its just an era"...) "We need to go to the quantum world which incorporates....reason...and incorporates faith."

 

Later, he argues that History is the only means to measure a unique.

 

Before the 18 minute mark he summarizes quantum theory & Hawkins argument.

 

Interesting stuff.

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If you could explain to me how you don't embrace slave morality, I'd be eternally happy.

 

Also, I've been meaning to address this because, I mean, this is a thread for "defending faith." I think Christianity says all are slaves to something. And, most of our lives are driven by destructive things instead of by good (righteous) things. That being said slavery is an analogy (v. 19) used to demonstrate what is allegedly a deeper concept of ethics.

 

Romans 6:16-19

16 Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living. 17 Thank God! Once you were slaves of sin, but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you. 18 Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living.

 

19 Because of the weakness of your human nature, I am using the illustration of slavery to help you understand all this. Previously, you let yourselves be slaves to impurity and lawlessness, which led ever deeper into sin. Now you must give yourselves to be slaves to righteous living so that you will become holy.

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47"That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows.

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47"That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows.

 

i'll get to this.

 

but just so we're clear can we agree that we have shifted the discussion from "slave morality" (morality based on intention a la Nietzche) to exploring the Bible's take on the institution of slavery?

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I'm technically atheist, but I tell my parents I'm Catholic and I'll probably get confirmed because both my parents and grandparents would die if I didn't. Also, my parents threaten to not get me Christmas presents if I'm not Catholic, because you're totally supposed to give people presents on Christmas according to the Bible. /sarcasm

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I have a question, it is merely a question that I don't know the answer to. Are the ideas of a God and evolution completely mutually exclusive? Please don't kill me, I'm just wondering....

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I have a question, it is merely a question that I don't know the answer to. Are the ideas of a God and evolution completely mutually exclusive? Please don't kill me, I'm just wondering....

not in christianity

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not in christianity

You're clearly bitter about religion, I suggest that you stop whining and act like an adult when these conversations occur in the future.

 

Like, I understand that you're witty and don't have better things to do, but why not live free and joyously instead of tying yourself down to this passive aggressive resentment against believers? You've got a grudge against religion and I don't think that any of us on cross-x have done anything that warrants your generally hostile attitude. I'm okay with agnosticism, but I find your posts on religion repulsive. Please stop.

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