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Emporia results

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But overall it was a good tourney,

and the Bonnet's were awesome letting finalists eat from the hospitality food. it kept us alive.

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Quarters

1 Topeka West Reed/? def. 8 BVN Freid/?

5 Fort Scott Lyon/Weilert def. 4 BVW Kagan/Mittal

2 BV Nichols/XU def 7 Salina Central ?/?

3 BVW Oatman/Richey def. 6 Wichita East Orsi/Redler

 

Semis

5 Fort Scott LW def. 1 Topeka West R?

2 BV NX def. 3 BVW OR

 

Finals

5 Fort Scott LW def. 2 BV NX

 

Overall I though it was a well-run tournament. The judging pool was representative of what you'll find even at many DCI tournaments in Kansas. Debaters should learn to adapt to the judges they have rather than complain about the judges they "should" have gotten.

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Keep in mind that judging would have been better if Bear-Shock hadn't also been occurring this weekend. Can't put it on the tournament.

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yeah the judging pool sucked, even in semi's we had serious lay judges. it also was really slow.

 

Just like the first six rounds at NFL nationals...2 judges per round and often opposite paradigms. Learn to love it and you can run deep at nationals.

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yeah the judging pool sucked, even in semi's we had serious lay judges. it also was really slow.

This is exactly why I don't judge anymore. None of you idiots consider the reality that if you didn't pick up a judge that YOU did something wrong. Assuming stuff is always the judge's fault assumes that you did nothing wrong and gives you no ability to grow as a debater. TL;DR you kids that complain about judges are jackasses and thats why I don't want to judge your rounds.

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Alex, for those who are new enough not to remember, is an NDT debater who qualified for national elims in high school. His comments demonstrate how complaining about lay judges leads to a world in which you're judged by nobody else.

 

I'll have no more to say on this matter except that it's one of the more disgusting aspects of my job that I have to re-fight this battle with a new set of self-satisfied 15-year-olds every few years. Lay judges are in many cases people who work 50 hour weeks at jobs they hate, and who are nonetheless willing to give you two hours of their precious free time on the weekend despite their complete lack of familiarity with the activity or subject matter. They're not entertained by you or by debate, by and large; they figure instead that they ought to give something of themselves for the sake of your education. That any of you would complain about their contribution is galling beyond belief. When you do so, you single yourself out for special attention from the rest of our community. Don't think that anonymity protects you for very long, either.

 

The complete Emporia results are now up at the bidtracker: http://z3.invisionfree.com/Ad_Astra/index.php?showtopic=98&st=0

Edited by STADB9

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This is exactly why I don't judge anymore. None of you idiots consider the reality that if you didn't pick up a judge that YOU did something wrong. Assuming stuff is always the judge's fault assumes that you did nothing wrong and gives you no ability to grow as a debater. TL;DR you kids that complain about judges are jackasses and thats why I don't want to judge your rounds.

 

This is a bit too far. As a high schooler, that were very few things that were as frustrating as going to a tournament having prepped out arguments assuming flow/line-by-line analysis just to find myself drawing judges with little experience. It was even more frustrating to be vocal about said frustration just to be hammered down coaches/former debaters at large for being selfish and inconsiderate of the time others had put in. I also realized that a lot of my frustration wasn't directed at particular judges, but how isolated I felt as a debater from the style I'd conformed to and the style that was necessary to win a ton of ballots at regional competitions.

 

There are some debaters that deserve to have a large velvet J (for jackass) sewn onto their blazer prior to a tournament. But the large majority don't fit this mold. Your animosity, in particular Alex, is uncalled for. What's needed is a bit of compassion - 'benevolent molding' - if you will. Not this type of bashing from the elderly. I'd much rather judge a couple of cocky debaters that aren't as good as they think they are - tell them so - and tell them how they could potentially be.

 

The animosity on both sides is sorta silly.

Edited by dziegler

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Alex, for those who are new enough not to remember, is an NDT debater who qualified for national elims in high school. His comments demonstrate how complaining about lay judges leads to a world in which you're judged by nobody else.

 

I'll have no more to say on this matter except that it's one of the more disgusting aspects of my job that I have to re-fight this battle with a new set of self-satisfied 15-year-olds every few years. Lay judges are in many cases people who work 50 hour weeks at jobs they hate, and who are nonetheless willing to give you two hours of their precious free time on the weekend despite their complete lack of familiarity with the activity or subject matter. They're not entertained by you or by debate, by and large; they figure instead that they ought to give something of themselves for the sake of your education. That any of you would complain about their contribution is galling beyond belief. When you do so, you single yourself out for special attention from the rest of our community. Don't think that anonymity protects you for very long, either.

 

The complete Emporia results are now up at the bidtracker: http://z3.invisionfree.com/Ad_Astra/index.php?showtopic=98&st=0

 

This

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dziegler, you feel Felix's response was harsh? Regardless of the accurateness of the things he said, most of which I agree with, you don't understand the perspective he might have to have the tone he had?

 

I think the tone of his post clearly shows the disdain for the lack of respect that previous posts had. A debater being frustrated for preparing to debate for the vast minority of judges and then being confronted with what is logistically responsible and the norm does not justify publically labelling those who put in effort in hosting as "failures". That mindset should be checked immediately by the community as destructive, isolating, repugnant, and self destructive. By speaking up, Felix is providing valuable coaching that a student mislabelling their frustration on the tournament rather than self examination is not productive.

 

And even if you disagree with that, think of the perspective. If you can't, try this little experiment:

 

I don't know your parents in the slightest, and this is hypothetical, so I hope you don't take offense, but imagine that I were to go to your parent's place of work. Even though they put in a ton of effort and make sacrifices in life for the betterment of others, I tell them that I would do their jobs completely differently and I publically label them as "failed" in their chosen occupation. You honestly would censor any emotionally response while addressing me, especially if I was a juvenile who hasn't even been alive as long has your parents have been in the profession? You would consider my public denial of my ridiculous expecations and liable against your parents as reasonable frustration with me not getting my way?

 

I think Felix actually showed fair restraint in his tone given the attacks. I share in STADB9's heavy sigh in once again having to teach a new generation early in the debate season that it isn't "all about them" and perhaps they would grow as people if they took in account the sacrifices of those around them just to give them an opportunity to participate in the activity regardless of the style of competition. dziegler, I think it is wonderful that you identify with those who want "more" out of the activity, but do you really think you are helping them by telling them they can be narcisists and the community should be happy to have them?

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Wait... I can see he edited his post, but did a kid from the #1 seed complain that the judges weren't qualified to make competent decisions on the ballot? Well, I guess we ought to take him at his word then.

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dziegler, you feel Felix's response was harsh? Regardless of the accurateness of the things he said, most of which I agree with, you don't understand the perspective he might have to have the tone he had?

 

I think the tone of his post clearly shows the disdain for the lack of respect that previous posts had. A debater being frustrated for preparing to debate for the vast minority of judges and then being confronted with what is logistically responsible and the norm does not justify publically labelling those who put in effort in hosting as "failures". That mindset should be checked immediately by the community as destructive, isolating, repugnant, and self destructive. By speaking up, Felix is providing valuable coaching that a student mislabelling their frustration on the tournament rather than self examination is not productive.

 

And even if you disagree with that, think of the perspective. If you can't, try this little experiment:

 

I don't know your parents in the slightest, and this is hypothetical, so I hope you don't take offense, but imagine that I were to go to your parent's place of work. Even though they put in a ton of effort and make sacrifices in life for the betterment of others, I tell them that I would do their jobs completely differently and I publically label them as "failed" in their chosen occupation. You honestly would censor any emotionally response while addressing me, especially if I was a juvenile who hasn't even been alive as long has your parents have been in the profession? You would consider my public denial of my ridiculous expecations and liable against your parents as reasonable frustration with me not getting my way?

 

I think Felix actually showed fair restraint in his tone given the attacks. I share in STADB9's heavy sigh in once again having to teach a new generation early in the debate season that it isn't "all about them" and perhaps they would grow as people if they took in account the sacrifices of those around them just to give them an opportunity to participate in the activity regardless of the style of competition. dziegler, I think it is wonderful that you identify with those who want "more" out of the activity, but do you really think you are helping them by telling them they can be narcisists and the community should be happy to have them?

 

lol

 

I'm all for correcting debaters and pointing out that their frustrations are misguided. I'm not at all for calling them jackasses and refusing to judge because I think a couple of high schoolers are being pricks. I don't think this is that much of a crazy strategy for dealing with silly high school adaptation issues.

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I really regret starting this topic. It's sad that every topic on the Kansas board devolves into a fight over different styles of debate. Even "champ" debaters should realize that slow paced rounds that emphasize explanation over evidence are extremely beneficial for all styles of debate. The reason so many Kansas debaters go on to be successful in college is because they learn how to tell a coherent story. No matter how tricked out your k is, no judge is going to pick you up if they don't understand what you're saying. If you haven't yet realized that you're going to need to adapt to both forms, then you're really missing the point of the activity.

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DuBois, Volen, Swanson, Other Coaches,

 

I am going to try to judge a bit more this year. So feel free to reach out to me if you are needing judges. If my Saturday is free, I will come and judge for you.

 

/bd

 

bryan(dot)dreiling(at)gmail(dot)com

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DuBois, Volen, Swanson, Other Coaches,

 

I am going to try to judge a bit more this year. So feel free to reach out to me if you are needing judges. If my Saturday is free, I will come and judge for you.

 

/bd

 

bryan(dot)dreiling(at)gmail(dot)com

 

Ahhh, the world just became a better place! Check your email please

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