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Publius

[DEAD] Round 322: [MILITARY] egold (aff) vs. Publius (neg)

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I would like to try out some new strategies. I would like to challenge somebody on the military topic, as long as they are aff.

 

Edit: How do you change the title of the thread? Does a mod need to do it?

Edit x 2: Spelling

Edited by Publius

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Sure I'll debate... I'm at camp though so I'll only be able to get on at odd times.

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Sure I'll debate... I'm at camp though so I'll only be able to get on at odd times.

 

Sure. I was aff against you once anyways. Post the 1AC and we can get judges later

 

Edit: Accident

Edited by Publius

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I'll judge, but debating on when you finish, I might be at camp-- so a RFD may be slightly delayed.

 

totally fine!

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Edit: How do you change the title of the thread? Does a mod need to do it?

PM aburo (he'll eventually do it himself when he checks the forum, but go ahead)

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1. How long will this "phased withdrawal" take?

2. Why would North Korea provoke again?

3. What duties do these ground troops perform?

4. Where does card #3 (Bandow 10) even mention US military presence?

5. What is the "sunshine policy" Righter 10 talks about?

6. Does the plan end the "nuclear umbrella" over South Korea?

7. ICG talks about accidental WMD use, not accidental bioterror, correct? If not, how is bioterror unleased accidentally?

8. Wouldn't quarantining and closing down borders/airports solve bioterror spread?

9. How do you solve Syria releasing bioweapons?

10. How would a disease spread from NK to the US, seeing as Americans can't even travel there and we have a trade embargo/sanctions?

11. How would withdrawing troops remove the incentive for NK to release their bioweapons?

12. Who would succeed Kim Jong-il?

13. Why isn't succession inevitable? Kim Join-il has to die some day

14. Which card says withdrawal solves (in that order)

15. Considering Francis wrote this card 4 years ago, shouldn't the NK prolif, armament and ship sinking have triggered the impact? If not, why is now the key time and why does Francis consider it?

16. Why does Waldron consider those factors when he wrote in 97?

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1. How long will this "phased withdrawal" take?

 

I mean we'll defend durable fiat and that it happens post plan - We'll debate about the implications of doing it.

 

2. Why would North Korea provoke again?

 

Because they want to unite Korea under a single communist banner.

 

3. What duties do these ground troops perform?

 

I don't know... Guard?

 

4. Where does card #3 (Bandow 10) even mention US military presence?

 

It doesn't specifically say US presence but it does say " The ROK would have to take bilateral measures. That certainly would end investment and aid..." Additionally, the first piece of Bandow evidence indicates that the sinking of the Cheonan is only the beginning of the provocations coming.

 

5. What is the "sunshine policy" Righter 10 talks about?

 

The Sunshine Policy was a policy enacted by South Korea in the late 90s that basically made North and South Korea friendlier to one another by opening up trade. An example of this is that some South Korean shops started selling North Korean cigars and ginseng as a result of the policy.

 

6. Does the plan end the "nuclear umbrella" over South Korea?

 

Absolutely not.

 

7. ICG talks about accidental WMD use, not accidental bioterror, correct? If not, how is bioterror unleased accidentally?

 

No, ICG talks about biological weapons, look to literally the first highlighted line of the card. Biological weapons can be unleashed through a series of methods including aerosols and food, that's in the Levy evidence. They can be accidentally released through miscalculation, which is on our Sanger evidence which basically says that miscalculation has become more likely in five more ways, which I can list if you want. Miscalculation is when the attacking force basically underestimates the force they are attacking, and therefore launch a pre-emptive strike because they think they have something to gain.

 

8. Wouldn't quarantining and closing down borders/airports solve bioterror spread?

 

No... Our Levy evidence is really fantastic on this question. She indicates that people with diseases could not know for up to 17 days before even minor symptoms showed up, and that a virus like this can go global in six weeks. Additionally, when people begin to feel sick after the 17 day incubation period it's not like they're going to run through the streets going "OMG A BIOTERROR ATTACK!"

 

9. How do you solve Syria releasing bioweapons?

 

I don't know how this is relevant.

 

10. How would a disease spread from NK to the US, seeing as Americans can't even travel there and we have a trade embargo/sanctions?

 

Right our Levy evidence indicates that North Korea could launch missiles, let out aerosoles over the DMZ, or poison food products.

 

11. How would withdrawing troops remove the incentive for NK to release their bioweapons?

 

Kim Jong-Il feels extremely threatened by US presence in the status quo, as would anyone with the US army at their doorstep. He wants them to go away so he can take over South Korea.

 

12. Who would succeed Kim Jong-il?

 

Our evidence indicates that there are multiple factions trying to vye for power but that the favorite is his son, Kim Jong-Un

 

13. Why isn't succession inevitable? Kim Join-il has to die some day

 

We'll defend that the lack of US troops presence eases the succession process because it basically eliminates one stressor.

 

14. Which card says withdrawal solves (in that order)

 

There are literally so many pieces of evidence that say this... I guess I'll cite one. Our Stanton evidence says that we should withdraw our ground troops are a political liability and that we should withdraw them. This is because the South Koreans don't like US presence because the soldiers are hostile and have single-handedly kept the prostitution business running there. This evidence says that we can still maintain power projection through air and naval forces.

 

15. Considering Francis wrote this card 4 years ago, shouldn't the NK prolif, armament and ship sinking have triggered the impact? If not, why is now the key time and why does Francis consider it?

 

We'll defend that these are only reasons why we need to shift to a regional system now. These impacts were caused by the US pressuring North Korea, so if we want to prevent impacts like these (and worse ones) in the future we have to withdraw our troops as fast as possible.

 

16. Why does Waldron consider those factors when he wrote in 97?

 

He's talking about how if there are disputes over territory (which have never occured) it results in a power conflict that draws in the world thereby causing world war three. Territorial disputes have never occured so therefore this evidence is still inherent.

 

I'm sure you have follow up questions, but when can a 1NC be expected? Oh and also I'm cool with Shree.

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I can judge a bit... i'll be at camp Jul 25-Aug 2 so i'll be on at odd times during then but otherwise i'll be good

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I can judge. I'm not at camp, so don't worry about time. :)

 

My paradigm: Policy maker

 

Kritiks: I'm okay with them as long as they aren't vague or generic. I need them explained.

 

Counterplans: Love 'em.

 

Case: Very much nessicary.

 

Generic Stuff: Don't even think about it. I require specific linkage.

 

Theory: A reason to reject the arg. not the team.

 

Topicality: I won't vote for it if refuted well.

 

Squirrly stuff: If its good, I'll enjoy hearing it.

 

All in all, I'm really open for anything.

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I can post within the hour of you answering the followup questions.

 

1. How many years will the phased withdrawal take?

2. What advantages are based off China relations?

3. Why is NK a "rogue state" as Levy '7, Bandow 6/9, and Francis '6?

4. Wouldn't Japan be part of this "regionalism" get-together?

 

Edit: spelling and added 4

Edited by Publius

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I can post within the hour of you answering the followup questions.

 

1. How many years will the phased withdrawal take?

 

We don't defend a time, we debate the implications of the plan not the plan itself. I don't think this is a link to any DA you would run so I find this irrelevant.

 

2. What advantages are based off China relations?

 

We don't claim a China advantage.

 

3. Why is NK a "rogue state" as Levy '7, Bandow 6/9, and Francis '6?

 

Maybe because they are extremely secretive and we don't know if they have nuclear missiles or not, we know they performed nuclear tests though. I mean, for gods sake there are conspiracies as to whether or not Kim Jong-Il is dead or not (not very popular) but just proves how little we know about them.

 

4. Wouldn't Japan be part of this "regionalism" get-together?

 

No not really, we'll defend South Korea is key.

 

Edit: spelling and added 4

 

Yup.

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Cross-x

 

1. Under what conditions can you go for the counterplan and kritik?

2. Is the deterrence DA based off whether we are capable or credible (like, is it the fact that we could seriously mess up North Korea or the threat of that which maintains deterrence)?

3. Who enacts the alternative?

4. Can we still do the plan in the world of the alternative?

5. What exactly does the alternative do? (in english without the k language please)

6. What's your violation on ASPEC?

7. Do we have to pick a specific actor in order to meet ASPEC?

8. Why is having pick a specific actor better for negative ground?

9. In what way does the CP compete?

10. Are there any negative effects to doing the CP?

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Cross-x

 

1. Under what conditions can you go for the counterplan and kritik?

Both the CP and the alt are conditional. I won't go for both in the 2NR

2. Is the deterrence DA based off whether we are capable or credible (like, is it the fact that we could seriously mess up North Korea or the threat of that which maintains deterrence)?

It's based on current military presence so we can remain credible

3. Who enacts the alternative?

We (debaters, judges as policymakers) do

4. Can we still do the plan in the world of the alternative?

We can; without the representations and discourse of "rogue states"

5. What exactly does the alternative do? (in english without the k language please)

The alt makes us realize there's no such thing as "rogue states" and move past the reps and discourse of that and shift the focus of IR to less colonial representations

6. What's your violation on ASPEC?

You don't specify more than USFG

7. Do we have to pick a specific actor in order to meet ASPEC?

Pick a branch and more if you want to be nice

8. Why is having pick a specific actor better for negative ground?

See the ground standard

9. In what way does the CP compete?

NB

10. Are there any negative effects to doing the CP?

I don't see what you mean

there

Edited by Publius

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3. Who enacts the alternative?

 

We (debaters, judges as policymakers) do

 

How does this break down the ideology of all rogue states everywhere in the world? What about all of our other bases and forces nation-wide? Do they have to be withdrawn too in order for the alternative to solve?

 

4. Can we still do the plan in the world of the alternative?

 

We can; without the representations and discourse of "rogue states"

 

Okay, so you're a floating PIK. Cool.

 

5. What exactly does the alternative do? (in english without the k language please)

 

The alt makes us realize there's no such thing as "rogue states" and move past the reps and discourse of that and shift the focus of IR to less colonial representations

 

How? By a judge signing a ballot? How likely is that to solve instances of IR where rogue state's logic is used?

 

6. What's your violation on ASPEC?

 

You don't specify more than USFG

 

Sorry I meant to ask: What is your interpretation?

 

8. Why is having pick a specific actor better for negative ground?

 

See the ground standard

 

Explain it to me here.

 

9. In what way does the CP compete?

 

NB

 

Sorry let me rephrase this - in what way does the CP solve the aff?

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How? By a judge signing a ballot? How likely is that to solve instances of IR where rogue state's logic is used?

By reframing the international arena, it eliminates those instances

 

Sorry I meant to ask: What is your interpretation?

Specify the branch of the USFG

 

Explain it to me here.

 

Brovero indicates the USFG isn't an actor that makes policy, to have true b.p.o. discussion we must discuss the agent, which gives us good ground

 

Sorry let me rephrase this - in what way does the CP solve the aff?

It doesn't solve the whole aff--it solves Korean War and Succession though

 

I prefer the term affirmative-inclusive alternative.

Don't sever your reps and discourse.

Edited by Publius

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HOW do you reframe the entirety of the international arena by rejecting this one instance of bad discourse?

 

Where is your ASPEC interpretation in the 1NC? Are all affs meant to meet this? Which affirmatives last year read by successful teams would meet this interpretation?

 

Is the USFG an umbrella term for all parts of itself?

 

How does the CP solve Korean War and Succession?

 

Affirmative-Inclusive alternative - Okay how is that distinct from a floating PIK?

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HOW do you reframe the entirety of the international arena by rejecting this one instance of bad discourse?

 

It's a matter of reframing our representations of the international arena. The alternative (or anything for that matter) can directly change the international arena. Our criticism is in terms of PERCEIVING the international arena

 

Where is your ASPEC interpretation in the 1NC? Are all affs meant to meet this? Which affirmatives last year read by successful teams would meet this interpretation?

Idk. All aff's should meet this. What do last year's affs mean anything? Just because other teams are abusive doesn't mean you can be

 

Is the USFG an umbrella term for all parts of itself?

I don't know what you mean. Saying Eli doesn't mean I know automatically it's Eli Gold

 

How does the CP solve Korean War and Succession?

It solves risk of miscalc and war because they can't strike if they have no WMDs. It solves impacts of succession through the same thing and it makes sure no lashout as a result of succession.

 

Affirmative-Inclusive alternative - Okay how is that distinct from a floating PIK?

Define floating PIK

Ball's in your court

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Please stop avoiding the question. I understand your claim that you can spillover to the international arena, I just don't know how this can happen by a judge signing a ballot. Please provide a warrant as to how this can happen.

 

Okay so there's no case list. Cool.

 

A floating PIK is a kritik alternative that does the affirmative. Does your alternative do this? Yes or no.

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Please stop avoiding the question. I understand your claim that you can spillover to the international arena, I just don't know how this can happen by a judge signing a ballot. Please provide a warrant as to how this can happen.

 

It's a matter of the debate community and the policymakers. We say move to a different paradigm of viewing the system. We don't require spillover

 

Okay so there's no case list. Cool.

Every aff should have this for a good case list. ASPEC is a prerequisite to a case list.

 

A floating PIK is a kritik alternative that does the affirmative. Does your alternative do this? Yes or no.[

Yes

 

2AC soon?

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How does a judge signing a ballot make a move to a different paradigm of viewing the system?

 

The 2AC will be up tonight I'm cutting a Kuwait Aff right now ;)

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How does a judge signing a ballot make a move to a different paradigm of viewing the system?

Because they utilize a better methodology and endorse the alt by signing the ballot

 

 

The 2AC will be up tonight I'm cutting a Kuwait Aff right now ;)

Nice

 

Seen any good movies? (lol jk)

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How does utilizing a better methodology make EVERYONE EVERYWHERE shift to a better paradigm of viewing the system?

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How does utilizing a better methodology make EVERYONE EVERYWHERE shift to a better paradigm of viewing the system?

The ballot's endorsement is the key starting point to change OUR conception as debaters simulating policymakers envisioning security policy. We need to reject the representation to open up the space for change first. Bilgin and Morton indicate that policymakers and/our ourselves need to make the change, not some utopian fiat. The US policymakers are hegemons that utilize this representation, so there's really no absolute need for universal rejection. I have good evidence that people (any number) withdrawing from that analysis can help start a chain of solving worldwide, though

 

 

.

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