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Are there college debate camps, or debate camp files?

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Thanks. Is that the only one?

 

And do you have to buy their files? I looked for DLs and it required a password.

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I want to say there might be one other camp... i want to sat the world debate institute but ASU is the best one and yes you have to buy there files.

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I want to say there might be one other camp... i want to sat the world debate institute but ASU is the best one and yes you have to buy there files.

 

Yeah, there's also a debate camp in vermont. I think they might have renamed it the East Debate Institute or something though.

 

I think Towson also had a college co-op, but not sure what the status of that is this year.

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Thanks. Is that the only one?

 

And do you have to buy their files? I looked for DLs and it required a password.

 

you have to pay. if you have a new/poor/small program i'm pretty sure symonds considers the price very negotiable.

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you have to pay. if you have a new/poor/small program i'm pretty sure symonds considers the price very negotiable.

 

Indeed. I think it has been between around $300 in past years.

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I thought college was the hyper-liberal "everything must be disclosed or you lose the round" sphere.

 

Why the hoarding, when even high school has got the ropes of sharing camp files?

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I thought college was the hyper-liberal "everything must be disclosed or you lose the round" sphere.

 

Why the hoarding, when even high school has got the ropes of sharing camp files?

 

Well to be fair, there's no rule that forces college teams to disclose "everything" on their wikis. Even the top teams fail to disclose every single minute detail from every single debate--most teams only put up the 1AC/1NC cites for all of the argument they read, plus 2NC answers to common arguments (like the perm). Not necessarily defending this practice, but just providing a counter-point to your assertion.

 

Regardless, if you feel up to it, you could email Adam about it. I'm sure he can give you a more coherent reason for why the files are for sale and not free. My guess is that it helps fund the camp, especially since the ADI is made very economical for college kids (only $700ish I believe) while many high school camps charge between $1000 and $4000 per student to offset costs.

 

On a side note, though, if you think that a plea for ADI files will score you some amazing files, you will be sorely mistaken. Generally, ADI files can be a good way to jump into the topic, but the evidence is rarely read by successful teams after the first tournament of the year. If you're just looking for "good files," you're better off cutting some of your own and getting better.

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In truth, I just don't know where to begin researching affs.

 

In HS, I did Public Forum, but the PF national circuit mirrors policy-like tendencies. Most months our card file ranged from 60-200 pages, depending on the topic.

 

The problem is, each topic was like its own 1AC. The neg could go first because the "aff" was set; it was just the advantage set that changed. If the topic is Resolved: No Child Left behind is great for academic achievement, I know that the end impact is achievement, and that there are clear ways to negate that. No matter what the aff says, I'll have weighable offense.

 

My closest experience to CX was in the International Public Policy Forum, where we quartered. We mostly were neg, and mostly ran actor PICs (the agent was the UN in the topic, so we just attacked that).

 

But I don't think that'll work for this topic. How do you find the creative spark that leads to a literature-based affirmative? Do you just imbibe thousands of pages of research until you decide on an AC?

 

I don't want to run a stock case, but I don't know where to begin. I don't have a frame of reference for finding and choosing an affirmative.

 

I like having HS camp files because it allows me to predict a majority of what people are going to run, and hit that.

 

I guess I can imagine SOME of what the college affs will look like (depending on the topic); Haiti refuges, Cuban Refugees, Iraqi Refugees....but that's it. I can't really think of more.

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Hey Snarf,

 

Your question is pretty involved, so I'll try to post something tomorrow or the day after. But before that, I was just curious-- are you debating CX in college? And if so, do you know what college you're debating for? Chances are that the coach/director that runs the debate program will give you good pointers for how to write a successful aff.

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To expand on shreethebsmaster a little, I would, if you are indeed debating in college, send the director of debate at your school a short email showing your interest. I know that a LOT of colleges have their own "camps" where all the current team members get together in the summer and research. I also think that because of the access to a much larger amount of information, ways to get that information, and better funding, you will see very little college teams using a camp 1AC and most teams using their own cut evidence. Hope this helps.

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In truth, I just don't know where to begin researching affs.

 

In HS, I did Public Forum, but the PF national circuit mirrors policy-like tendencies. Most months our card file ranged from 60-200 pages, depending on the topic.

 

The problem is, each topic was like its own 1AC. The neg could go first because the "aff" was set; it was just the advantage set that changed. If the topic is Resolved: No Child Left behind is great for academic achievement, I know that the end impact is achievement, and that there are clear ways to negate that. No matter what the aff says, I'll have weighable offense.

 

My closest experience to CX was in the International Public Policy Forum, where we quartered. We mostly were neg, and mostly ran actor PICs (the agent was the UN in the topic, so we just attacked that).

 

But I don't think that'll work for this topic. How do you find the creative spark that leads to a literature-based affirmative? Do you just imbibe thousands of pages of research until you decide on an AC?

 

I don't want to run a stock case, but I don't know where to begin. I don't have a frame of reference for finding and choosing an affirmative.

 

I like having HS camp files because it allows me to predict a majority of what people are going to run, and hit that.

 

I guess I can imagine SOME of what the college affs will look like (depending on the topic); Haiti refuges, Cuban Refugees, Iraqi Refugees....but that's it. I can't really think of more.

 

Well I do have some time so I'll give you two easy pointers for where to start looking.

 

(A) You can look at the topic paper, which is a great starting point for research. You can find the topic paper on the first post here--http://cedadebate.org/forum/2010-2011-topic/immigration-controversy-open-wording-thread/

 

This should also help you think of affirmative areas outside of the scope of refugees from various countries.

 

(B) If you're still looking in September, there's always opencaselist.wikispaces.com. The top teams will post their cites to their 1ACs and 2AC tricks after Gonzaga and GSU, and you can cite track some of the articles and find more articles through footnotes, etc.

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Hey Snarf,

 

Your question is pretty involved, so I'll try to post something tomorrow or the day after. But before that, I was just curious-- are you debating CX in college? And if so, do you know what college you're debating for? Chances are that the coach/director that runs the debate program will give you good pointers for how to write a successful aff.

 

I'll be attending the University of Florida. My understanding with the speech coach (last name Roberts...can't remember her first) is that the CX coach quit.

 

I feel bad saying it, but I don't know how much of a debate school UF is. We're good at football, but while I was asking her about traveling, I mentioned going to the NDT, and she laughed and said that it would be wonderful just to qual - we've never done that, apparently.

 

Yes, I'll be debating CX. NFA-LD and Parli are not permitted.

 

 

Well I do have some time so I'll give you two easy pointers for where to start looking.

 

(A) You can look at the topic paper, which is a great starting point for research. You can find the topic paper on the first post here--http://cedadebate.org/forum/2010-2011-topic/immigration-controversy-open-wording-thread/

 

This should also help you think of affirmative areas outside of the scope of refugees from various countries.

 

(B) If you're still looking in September, there's always opencaselist.wikispaces.com. The top teams will post their cites to their 1ACs and 2AC tricks after Gonzaga and GSU, and you can cite track some of the articles and find more articles through footnotes, etc.

 

 

On A - it seems like a cop out to run things from the topic paper; who WONT have them blocked out?

 

B - I don't fancy taking someone else's work. Unless you're saying, don't use their work, cite-track it? Where does that come up with new ideas, though? My problem is that this seems like a LOT of (useless) information to filter; 9/10 articles citing their article will probably relate to it; not necessarily new aff ideas, just expansions of their plan. I'm looking for a new idea.

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So, you'll be doing college policy at a school that doesn't have a policy coach? And you're forbidden from doing events which you have a far higher likelihood of being successful in, given the aforementioned situation? Interesting.

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On A - it seems like a cop out to run things from the topic paper; who WONT have them blocked out?

 

All college teams will have most arguments blocked out (including those files you would get by purchasing / getting the camp files). The point is reading the topic paper and tracking down their arguments can get you direction to other / deeper arguments to cut on your own. College debate is rarely about popping a team with a new DA / K - It is about out working your opponent before the debate starts and having depth and substance to your argument, be it K or Disad.

 

Plenty of schools do very well (ranked in the top 25 even) by primarily running middle of the road arguments, having depth and substance to those arguments, and defending their position with what is a well established literature base.

 

B - I don't fancy taking someone else's work. Unless you're saying, don't use their work, cite-track it? Where does that come up with new ideas, though? My problem is that this seems like a LOT of (useless) information to filter; 9/10 articles citing their article will probably relate to it; not necessarily new aff ideas, just expansions of their plan. I'm looking for a new idea.

 

It's hard to be on the innovative when you are starting out. Learn the basics, get a handle on the technical / jargon. You were on the right track with wanting camp evidence, that will help (no camp file will contain new, innovative approaches to the resolution, it will be mainstream stuff). Once you get a handle on how things work, you will understand how approaching the resolution in an innovative way works for you. But for now... Caselists should be your best friend. Northwestern won't mind if you read their aff.

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Snarf,

 

I think your approach to college debate is incredibly misguided. As a debater who debates at a recently established program, I can relate to the anxiety you feel about debating at a smaller program as opposed to traditional, well-established ones. In fact, as a freshman entering Columbia in 2007, I was probably in a worse dilemma than you were-- the debate team did not exist. We did not have "coaches" or "card-cutters," we didn't have a budget, and of the people who were interested in debating, I was the only one willing to cut cards. I was a pretty awful high school debater, and had no experience founding a debate program from scratch, so my situation was pretty desperate.

 

But, after a lot of hard work and getting help from various people in the debate community, Columbia's team is doing pretty well. By interacting with the debate community, we were able to find a generous donor (now the director) who was willing to travel with us to tournaments, and even though my debate partner and I cut 95% of the evidence produced by our team, we're doing pretty well (doubles at CEDA, quarters at Fullerton, etc).

 

So, from my perspective, your point that "UF has never gone to the NDT" just sounds like a displacement of your own insecurity as a debater. The fact that UF has not sent a debater to the NDT recently does not mean it never will, and the fact that someone goes to a high-caliber school does not guarantee a rise to NDT-stardom. I am not going to be naive enough to say that inequalities between well-established and small programs do not exist, but your success in debate depends first and foremost on your work ethic--wishing that you were born with a silver spoon is not going to get you into the NDT. I suggest either (A) growing some balls, working really hard and focusing on cutting cards or (B) re-evaluating your goals for debate (I have good friends who only go to one or two regional tournaments to have fun, rather than to qual to the NDT).

 

On A - it seems like a cop out to run things from the topic paper; who WONT have them blocked out?

 

B - I don't fancy taking someone else's work. Unless you're saying, don't use their work, cite-track it? Where does that come up with new ideas, though? My problem is that this seems like a LOT of (useless) information to filter; 9/10 articles citing their article will probably relate to it; not necessarily new aff ideas, just expansions of their plan. I'm looking for a new idea.

 

Both of these points you make are just asinine. Considering that your knowledge of the topic is "Haiti Refugees, Cuban refugees, Iraqi refugees," reading the topic paper to figure out the actual scope of the topic seems prudent for you, even if you choose not to cut the affs in the topic paper. And even still, the topic paper has a broad, general focus, so you can go through the articles cited there, look through the footnotes, and see if you can find a small, squirrelly aff in some of the citations (if you really don't want to read a big case). Your original point was that you had no idea where to start on researching the topic-- this is probably your best start.

 

Regardless, if your aim is to read an aff that's not blocked out, you will fail miserably. If you're good at debate and win enough rounds, teams and coaches will cut case negs for you aff by the end of the tournament. Even if you don't put your aff up on the caselist, you will be surprised how easy it is to find out what a specific team read and their cites within 10 minutes of a round. We read a fucking Baudrillard aff last year for pete's sake, and people were blocked out for it by the end of the tournament we broke it at.

 

And lastly, yeah, it'll be a lot of hard work and research. You will have to read many articles if you plan to win some rounds. Asking for ADI files is NOT going to give you an "original" or "creative" aff.

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All college teams will have most arguments blocked out (including those files you would get by purchasing / getting the camp files). The point is reading the topic paper and tracking down their arguments can get you direction to other / deeper arguments to cut on your own. College debate is rarely about popping a team with a new DA / K - It is about out working your opponent before the debate starts and having depth and substance to your argument, be it K or Disad.

 

Plenty of schools do very well (ranked in the top 25 even) by primarily running middle of the road arguments, having depth and substance to those arguments, and defending their position with what is a well established literature base.

 

I understand. My goal, as it was in high school, was to argue things which are clear, substantial, supported and true (I guess some leeway on this one), but also far enough from the core that most of the chaff people argue would not link.

 

 

 

It's hard to be on the innovative when you are starting out. Learn the basics, get a handle on the technical / jargon. You were on the right track with wanting camp evidence, that will help (no camp file will contain new, innovative approaches to the resolution, it will be mainstream stuff). Once you get a handle on how things work, you will understand how approaching the resolution in an innovative way works for you. But for now... Caselists should be your best friend. Northwestern won't mind if you read their aff.

 

I mind to read northwestern's aff - its not right. And its not strategic either; I've served as a coach for PF, and I have to say that teams reading stuff that they didn't cut are a lot worse off.

 

I understand the jargon, and the techniques of debate. The only REALLY worrying thing is spreading; I hate it. I enjoy being able to extemporaneously argue and think of responses on the spot. At 350 wpm, that seems pretty difficult.

 

My problem is not so much DOING spreading as HEARING spreading. How can I gain an ear for this?

 

 

 

 

 

 

And shree, my problem is not that I fear hard work; I love it, and debate. I realized in 07 that to learn policy and to learn real debate, I would have to self educate. So I came here, and I have read and educated and learned.

 

I fear not knowing the ropes. I'm very afraid that I will simply lose rounds because I do not know how the debates work. Coaches who are involved in the topic, cut cards, and can help give advice and lectures on generic ideas are a massive advantage to one who needs to be introduced to college debate as much as the topic.

 

I also fear a lack of knowledge of opportunities. My local CFL offered a 10,000 scholarship to people who went to the tournament all four years. I didn't know about it my freshman year, because my coach didn't tell me. I only found out my sophomore year, and qualled the remaining three years. Had I known year one, a massively larger opportunity would have been available. I don't wanna miss out on opportunities because I am simply not aware of them.

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I mind to read northwestern's aff - its not right. And its not strategic either; I've served as a coach for PF, and I have to say that teams reading stuff that they didn't cut are a lot worse off.

 

I understand the jargon, and the techniques of debate. The only REALLY worrying thing is spreading; I hate it. I enjoy being able to extemporaneously argue and think of responses on the spot. At 350 wpm, that seems pretty difficult.

 

My problem is not so much DOING spreading as HEARING spreading. How can I gain an ear for this?

 

I don't think either of us are advocating just copy pasting people's affs from caselist. Rather, you can look through the articles that teams have cited, and then recut those articles and the other works that the articles cite.

 

Hearing spreading is a matter of practice. There are a few videos of college policy debates and high school policy debates online. I would suggest listening to them and developing a ear for spreading.

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I don't think either of us are advocating just copy pasting people's affs from caselist. Rather, you can look through the articles that teams have cited, and then recut those articles and the other works that the articles cite.

 

I'll back Shree up on this—my experience was in high school, but using the wiki/caselist to generate ideas and help jumpstart affs is one of the only ways you'll be competitive. Coming from a non national circuit team, we were able to perform competitively at nationals etc. because of this technique. From what I understand, this is, as Shree describes, a great way for a small/nonexistent program to get started and stay competitive.

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I also fear a lack of knowledge of opportunities. My local CFL offered a 10,000 scholarship to people who went to the tournament all four years. I didn't know about it my freshman year, because my coach didn't tell me. I only found out my sophomore year, and qualled the remaining three years. Had I known year one, a massively larger opportunity would have been available. I don't wanna miss out on opportunities because I am simply not aware of them.

 

Speaking of this, does anyone know of any international collegiate debate tournaments? I participated in some in HS, but I don't know what to do for college.

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Speaking of this, does anyone know of any international collegiate debate tournaments? I participated in some in HS, but I don't know what to do for college.

 

Sure, but they're all parli. And not really American style parli either.

 

American Policy Debate is a completely unique entity. This has an impact on parli debate as well. The NPDA, and most specifically the NPTE is heavily (and increasingly) reliant on a lot of Policy stuff. The only real international form anymore is Worlds Style or BP Style parliamentary debate, and they certainly do not conform with any of our conceptions od debate.

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1) Learn fw really well

2) cut an aff that can be run as a one off if u take the one topic specific card out

3) make sure the aff has nothing to do with the resolution

4) follow 3

5) debate

6) repeat for infinite NDT quals!

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