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whitekrunk

50 state fiat is bad.

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How is it not a solvency attack when the opponent argues that the plan (or CP) is not possible because the agent does not presently have the resources needed to do the plan?

 

Sure, you could respond with borrowing if the agent is the feds, but states can't run deficits. So if they don't have the money now, and they can't raise it with purpose-specific bonds, then how does fiat allow you you do the otherwise impossible?

 

Fiat isn't a question of the possible by its very nature. The whole point of fiat is that it doesn't matter if it's reasonably possible for something to happen, we assume it happens anyway.

 

If you were literally spending more money than the state has, that's one thing. But if the argument is just that it would cripple a state's economy, well, then you run a disad.

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I think a lot of people are missing the point -- to try to explain myself, keep in mind where the affirmative gets the awesome power of "fiat" -- from the word "should" in the resolution. The entire idea of fiat comes from the fact that we are debating about what the United States federal government SHOULD do, not what it can or will do.

 

With this key argument in mind, the logic behind the states CP kind of falls apart -- at least in my opinion. At Michigan, Seth Gannon lectured on what I think is one of the best state CP theory args -- logical irrelevance.

 

Basically, the states CP argues that instead of the USFG doing something, the 50 states should do something instead -- however, whether or not the 50 states do something is entirely irrelevant to if the USFG should do something.

 

Seth Gannon used this example: pretend the affirmative team presents a plan: "The United States federal government should buy a Hummer." The negative team runs a states CP. However, the question of whether or not each of the 50 states should get a Hummer is WHOLLY IRRELEVANT to the question of whether or not the USFG should buy a Hummer. If the federal government and each of the 50 states were people, then the question of whether or not the 50 people-states should get Hummers is completely unrelated to the question of whether or not the USFG-person should get a Hummer.

 

This argument is pretty theoretical not in the sense of debate theory (think condo), but in the sense of argumentative and logical theory. Honestly, I'm still not quite sure why it's a voter, but I normally make arguments about logical relevancy and use hyperbole to make my point.

 

There are some pretty easy answers to this argument, I suppose. First, a negative could simply claim that the net benefit to the CP proves that the actions of the 50 states are relevant to the USFG debate, but if you lose the net benefit debate, you're already down a river without a paddle.

 

Perhaps I'm not explaining this argument very well -- someone else who went to Michigan want to take a stab at it?

 

 

BTW: To the "too long" poster -- you should probably at least warrant that statement, otherwise you're riding the fence of troll-dom.

 

Thanks,

Ryan Marcus

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If you were literally spending more money than the state has, that's one thing. But if the argument is just that it would cripple a state's economy, well, then you run a disad.

 

It appears we are in agreement. If the Aff shows that one or more states cannot fund the counterplan because they do not have the money to do it, then that is a solvency attack on the CP, which Neg cannot overcome via its fiat power. Certainly, Neg could overcome that attack in other ways, but not through fiat.

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50 state fiat is bad.

 

The best article on the theory debate surrounding the states counterplan I've ever seen was Solt's theory contribution to the DRG back on the education topic.

http://groups.wfu.edu/debate/MiscSites/DRGArticles/Solt1999Education.htm

 

That was the first real theory article I ever read. Great reading. I learned a lot.

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