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Michael Jackson Died

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The amount of media attention is a sign of popularity and not quality. Remember the disparity in media coverage between Zappa and Cobain? They died a few months apart. Zappa (who might have the most lasting influence of any 20th century musician) was pretty much an afterthought in the media, and we heard Valley Girl and Don't Eat the Yellow Snow on FM a few times, but no real reverence or in depth examination of his work was in sight. Cobain dies and shows up on the cover of every major American magazine, dominates the news, and results in so many replayings of Smells Like Teen Spirit that I (who once considered the song an anthem of my youth) don't really care to hear it anymore. (Now watch the Nirvana fanboys negrep a guy who owned Bleach before Nevermind came out.)

 

my cousin showed me incesticide. after that, it was over.

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my cousin showed me incesticide. after that, it was over.
I had the same reaction the first time I listened to the Mothers, Filmore East 1971.

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Shut up. Nobody is remembering him for his character. People are saddened that a pop icon is lost. Your post is a bunch of non-responsive gibberish that misses the point.

 

Right now, no one is bringing up his character out of respect for the dead, and for the surviving family members. There is a lot of good music out there, but there is only one mega multi-platinum pedophile, and that's Jacko. I will most certainly remember him for the scandals much more than the music, and I know that I am not alone.

 

I could also go into a diatribe about why MJ was probably innocent, etc., but I don't think that's necessary.

 

You don't think it's necessary? I don't think it's possible. Just in the last couple of days, I have heard

- Quincy Jones talking about how he wondered why there are pictures of 8 year old blond haired blue eyed boys hanging around Jacko's Neverland ranch.

- that Latoya Jackson herself came out and said that her brother was a pedophile in 1993, but then rescinded the comment claiming that she was threatened into making these statements by a controlling lover.

- that Jacko had an 8 year old boy serve as the best man at his wedding.

- two jurors from the 2003 People v. Jackson case saying that they were absolutely sure that they let a pedophile go free.

- that he repeatedly had underage children staying at his house well after he dropped $20 million on the first 1993 settlement.

 

People don't have to think twice about mourning a guy because of sins he might have committed in his lifetime. I think it's sick to say that people can't have feelings to that kind of thing because you think he's a pedo.

 

I am not saying that you can't like Michael Jackson's music. I don't even think that I hate him as a man, either. To be honest, I feel a lot of sympathy for a guy that was painfully wrong about an ethical conclusion that he made, and was unable to come clean about it before he died. If he had, perhaps he wouldn't have had to take the psychotropic medication he was on. I am very interested to see if the media pays any attention to the issue after the dust settles a little.

 

So in the meantime, go back to your underground blog and whine about MJ. His death is a shock to us normal people.

 

That is a really funny sentence. The emperor isn't wearing any clothes, brother, only this time it's the King of Pop.

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I dont' recall hordes of young men in my high school classes dressing or acting like Michael, I do recall a lot of young ladies dressing like, and acting like, Madonna - just for point of comparision.

 

I'm not old enough to actually know this, but I've heard a number of stories that after the Thriller video everyone started wearing that red jacket.

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I didn't think I would EVER agree with Glen Beck about ANYTHING... but enough with this Michael Jackson media marathon.

 

Michael Jackson was an extraordinarily gifted entertainer who ranked at the top of his craft(s) in songwriting, singing, and dancing. I feel great empathy for his family, friends, and fans - but I haven't seen anyone get this kind of media attention since Pricess Di in 1997, and maybe JFK in 1963.

 

IMHO, Michael Jackson was not as socially relevant as Josephine Baker, Frank Sinatra, Elvis, Chuck Berry, and/or the Beatles (among many others), despite the assertion I heard on CNN last night that "... Michael Jackson made the election of Barack Obama possible." [sic]

 

So... I respectfully offer my list of "Other Jacksons" who were/are at least equally - if not more - historically important. In alphabetical order

 

1. Andrew Jackson

2. Bo Jackson

3. Glenda Jackson

4. Henry ("Scoop") Jackson

5. Jesse Jackson

6. Joseph ("Shoeless Joe") Jackson

7. Randy Jackson

8. Reggie Jackson

9. Samuel L. Jackson

10. Thomas J. ("Stonewall") Jackson

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So... I respectfully offer my list of "Other Jacksons" who were/are at least equally - if not more - historically important. In alphabetical order

 

1. Andrew Jackson

2. Bo Jackson

3. Glenda Jackson

4. Henry ("Scoop") Jackson

5. Jesse Jackson

6. Joseph ("Shoeless Joe") Jackson

7. Randy Jackson

8. Reggie Jackson

9. Samuel L. Jackson

10. Thomas J. ("Stonewall") Jackson

 

MAHALIA FOR tHE WIN

 

Edited by retired

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MAHALIA FOR tHE WIN

 

 

 

How did I forget Phil Jackson (for the Laker fans) and Kate Jackson (for the Chalie's Angels' fans)? (It doesn't matter if you're black or white.)

 

Easy as "A, B, C": it must have been a "memory malfunction." My bad. Gotta beat it.

Edited by topspeaker70
More bad puns
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or the late beer critique, Michael Jackson.

 

PH2007083102095.jpg

 

You can thank this man, single handedly, as the reason you are not drinking an american light lager from the industrial process right now.

 

me, im enjoying a Rogue Chipotle Ale

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what?

 

That's what some panelist said on Larry King last night. PLEASE don't attribute it to me.

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I remember people wearing those stupid polyester black shirts with the zippers with the red insert as well as the red leather jacket...heck I think even Eddie Murphy pulled off that look because of MJ. He was easily as big as Madonna in the 80s. Besides, a lot of those girls were actually dressing like Cindi Lauper, with the dayglo and various safety pins...it's just that Madonna lasted longer so there is some revision going on.

 

There's no doubt in my mind that Jackson WAS influential. He pushed pop music heavily, on more than one occasion. He also blended music in ways that weren't "typical" (Pop, Motown, R&B, Hip Hop) he did that and not many others were...and he was successfully doing it. What he did for music videos probably should be considered revolutionary. If we still watched music videos, that would make him legendary. But we don't. And therein lies my point. While MJ is a pop icon, and DID influence our music, our viewing habits, and our fashion, the same can be said for hundreds of other "icons" of the 80s and 90s. Comparing him to the Beatles or Elvis is a big case of apples and oranges. Was he as influential? I don't think so, but ask me again in 100 years. If people are still wearing one glove...oh wait. Yeah. He wasn't.

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There's no doubt in my mind that Jackson WAS influential.

 

Please see my first post (#57) in this thread.

 

Just so the record is clear, I'd be the first to admit that MJ was "influential." So were Ed McMahon, Farah Fawcett, and Billy Mays. I just think the media is going overboard in its wall-to-wall coverage of his death.

 

I mean, it's not like he was Brad Ziff.

Edited by topspeaker70

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I remember people wearing those stupid polyester black shirts with the zippers with the red insert as well as the red leather jacket...heck I think even Eddie Murphy pulled off that look because of MJ. He was easily as big as Madonna in the 80s. Besides, a lot of those girls were actually dressing like Cindi Lauper, with the dayglo and various safety pins...it's just that Madonna lasted longer so there is some revision going on.

 

There's no doubt in my mind that Jackson WAS influential. He pushed pop music heavily, on more than one occasion. He also blended music in ways that weren't "typical" (Pop, Motown, R&B, Hip Hop) he did that and not many others were...and he was successfully doing it. What he did for music videos probably should be considered revolutionary. If we still watched music videos, that would make him legendary. But we don't. And therein lies my point. While MJ is a pop icon, and DID influence our music, our viewing habits, and our fashion, the same can be said for hundreds of other "icons" of the 80s and 90s. Comparing him to the Beatles or Elvis is a big case of apples and oranges. Was he as influential? I don't think so, but ask me again in 100 years. If people are still wearing one glove...oh wait. Yeah. He wasn't.

 

Um okay so what do we do that's the same as Elvis or the Beatles?

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Um okay so what do we do that's the same as Elvis or the Beatles?

 

Aside from the traditional instruments we have in a "band,"

 

being rebellious and contentious as teenagers,

 

constantly rockin' out, always looking for something weird, "cool," and exciting,

 

being brilliant, but brooding and "misunderstood,"

 

being sex-obsessed, always experimenting with the metaphysical - especially in music (from drugs to TM, to religion),

 

the clothes we wear*,

 

and the hair styles (facial, sideburns, included) boys and men have...

 

Not a goddamn thing.

 

Why do you think Jack-O bought the BeaTles song portfolio?

 

Thank yuh very much.

 

*At one time, bluejeans were worn only by farmers and ranchers.

Edited by topspeaker70

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Um okay so what do we do that's the same as Elvis or the Beatles?

 

If you don't hear the Beatles in 75% of pop music, you aren't paying attention or just don't know enough about the Beatles. If you don't look at some of the t-shirts of high school and college kids and see an influence from Yellow Submarine and Magical Mystery Tour maybe you should consider buying a CD. Moreover, they really created what it means to be a POP icon. The pop icons since then are at best cheap imitations of them. I do think MJ pushed that around a little, but not in any meaningful or unpredictable way.

 

Elvis, as a fashion icon, yeah, I think he was kind of overrated. I do think he pushed "black" music into the white community and a lot of what we do now is allowed because of that. From MJ to hip hop, the ability to blend styles was directly influenced by Elvis. But I'm not seeing a lot of white jump suits around either...though my sideburns do have a bit of the King.

 

But then, Mia Wallace would say I'm a Beatles man, not an Elvis man.

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Without getting into this debate, which I would generally characterize as five or six ships passing in the night (to borrow the old LD cliche), I have to say this: I'm going to guess that the majority, if not all, of the participants in this debate come are white. I'm pretty sure there are other sectors of American society that would find MJ much MORE influential than Elvis, Lennon, the Beatles, whoever.

 

Please note, I'm not advocating this is true, but this discussion really seems to be ignoring that different people have a different amount of influence on different segments of society.

 

Also, since it hasn't been mentioned. Until Thriller came out, MTV did not play any videos by black artists. So there is no question that Michael Jackson played a key role in bringing R and B, black artists and eventually hip hop into the mainstream of white America. That might be his longest lasting legacy.

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Without getting into this debate, which I would generally characterize as five or six ships passing in the night (to borrow the old LD cliche), I have to say this: I'm going to guess that the majority, if not all, of the participants in this debate come are white. I'm pretty sure there are other sectors of American society that would find MJ much MORE influential than Elvis, Lennon, the Beatles, whoever.

 

Please note, I'm not advocating this is true, but this discussion really seems to be ignoring that different people have a different amount of influence on different segments of society.

 

Also, since it hasn't been mentioned. Until Thriller came out, MTV did not play any videos by black artists. So there is no question that Michael Jackson played a key role in bringing R and B, black artists and eventually hip hop into the mainstream of white America. That might be his longest lasting legacy.

It's impossible to experience culture objectively, and that's why I (like a coward) backed away from the argument I had initially made. I can be fairly sure the new music I'll like 20 years from now will bear the influence of Lennon moreso than Jackson, but I can't say that for everyone.

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Also, since it hasn't been mentioned. Until Thriller came out, MTV did not play any videos by black artists. So there is no question that Michael Jackson played a key role in bringing R and B, black artists and eventually hip hop into the mainstream of white America. That might be his longest lasting legacy.

 

Actually, Eddie Grant, Donna Summer, Musical Youth and Tina Turner had all been played on MTV before any "Thriller" album song. If you want to get in to that debate, it was Rick James who made the noise about MTV not playing his song (which had more to do with standards and practices than race most likely.) The first president of MTV says about this subject two things: one, the hip hop genre was new and didn't really fit the rock format of the rest of MTV, and two, the biggest reason ANY video was played was that it existed. He spent a lot of time trying to convince bands to MAKE a video since it was a new format...which is why there was a lot of concert footage in most early videos. I will say though, that MJ made a big contribution to the story format of music videos and probably helped the idea of "videos" an awful lot.

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im not sure of the direct correlation between yo mtv raps and mjj. mjjs hiphop streak didn't come until years after hiphop was considered one of the most dominant forms of popular music

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Rob, I won't argue because I don't know enough about the subject. The Michael Jackson as first black artist on MTV thing has been written a lot though, so if it's not true I wonder where that myth came from?

 

I would still say though, that he probably greatly increased the amount of R & B influenced music on the station.

 

My point about rap/hip hop was just that if MTV hadn't started being more open to what was perceived as "black music" in general, they probably never would have started playing rap/hi hop. The real pioneers there, obviously, wer Run DMC and the genius of collaborating with Aerosmith to give them rock credibility.

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Rob, I won't argue because I don't know enough about the subject. The Michael Jackson as first black artist on MTV thing has been written a lot though, so if it's not true I wonder where that myth came from?

 

I would still say though, that he probably greatly increased the amount of R & B influenced music on the station.

 

Yeah, sorry. Just a pet peeve of mine because I've heard it a lot lately. Jackson wasn't the first, but Beat It was easily the most played song by a black artist up to that point. (It was probably the most played song by any artist at that point.) There was a debate back then about how MTV didn't play enough black artists, mostly vocalized by Rick James' crazy ass. By going that direction with songs from Thriller, MTV turned the page on their format. They really couldn't completely go back to playing just Rock.

 

So, yeah, no doubt his stuff changed the format enough to allow for Yo! MTV Raps....well, that and "Walk This Way" as referenced above.

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