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Poverty Good

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Under developed and poor countries are key to capitalist exploitation. If African, Latin American, and Asian countries were to develop, not only would we lose cheap labor, but also they would be able control and use their own natural resources - that means they won't depend upon Western countries to help them harvest their resources. Capitalism requires exploitable people and poverty to thrive.

I'm not suggesting that you can't make that analysis, but that you won't find a defender of capitalism explaining it, so you are either running cap bad or not making this carded argument.

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Even if exploitation is necessarily associated with capitalism, that still doesn't mean that arguing for capitalism implies that one must advocate "poverty good". At worse, one merely acknowledges exploitation as an unfortunate but unavoidable consequence of an unregulated market.

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Under developed and poor countries are key to capitalist exploitation. If African, Latin American, and Asian countries were to develop, not only would we lose cheap labor, but also they would be able control and use their own natural resources - that means they won't depend upon Western countries to help them harvest their resources. Capitalism requires exploitable people and poverty to thrive.

 

Very good point...what kind of lit am I looking for on this?

Additionally, I agree- i don't see Cap Good lit supporting poverty too.

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solving poverty = better competitiveness, competitiveness = hege, hege is bad.

 

poverty is good.

 

 

I'm not too sure your statement means that poverty = good. It's not directly indicative of poverty being good. I'm pretty sure there is evidence that poverty is good but I'm also sure that it is very limited and mostly going to be k'd in every way possible.

 

Povery good = Dehumanization good = genocide good = holocaust good

not cool

 

trust me poverty sucks.

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Maybe people should not read shitty arguments.

 

Maybe people should come up with something more realistic (and easier to defend) then poverty good, because if the opposing team has any idea what they're doing, they'll beat you down if you try and impact turn poverty. As other people have stated, it's better to go for a link turn or an impact outweighs argument (potentially paired up with legitimate defense against their poverty arguments).

 

Also, claiming that preserving poverty is good is morally reprehensible in the eyes of some people; some judges might find it very repulsive, which could be harmful in a debate round - something to keep in mind.

Edited by Zar_B
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The military relies on people in desperate economic conditions for a substantial portion of its recruits. U.S. ground forces are already pretty stretched, and removing a vital pool of candidates would not be good for heg.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/03/AR2005110302528.html

 

If you run this, you officially have no soul.

Edited by jbaker

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The military relies on people in desperate economic conditions for a substantial portion of its recruits. U.S. ground forces are already pretty stretched, and removing a vital pool of candidates would not be good for heg.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/03/AR2005110302528.html

 

If you run this, you officially have no soul.

 

Uh, that's some pretty bad evidence. It mentions poverty once. And even then, it's talking about poverty rates in 20 of the Army's most recruited from counties.

 

That, and I think an Aff claiming to solve for poverty isn't necessarily going to fare too well anyway. Even then, I can see arguments being made along the lines of "even if we save one person from poverty, you should vote for plan."

 

I mean, I'm seeing common disad scenarios as somewhat unrealistic this year. I'm hoping we have some more down to earth disads.

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Reasons for why poverty is good:

 

environment: poor people leave a smaller footprint

 

value of life maybe: "Poverty is not pleasant or beautiful. It's no fun struggling to make ends meet. There is nothing romantic or exotic about living in a slum. Yet, sometimes it is the toughest times that accentuate our innate goodness, and bring the best in us to the fore. The human soul is full of kindness, love, and compassion. We just don't always know where to find it. Need and deprivation compel us to draw upon the great repository which we already possess.

 

Challenging times cause us to take a step back and evaluate what is important and what is not. The older generation tells of sharing their last crusts of bread with others during the meager years of WWII, of people risking their lives for the sake of others. They did not do so because they were any nobler than us, nor because they dreamt that the stories would be retold on the other side of the ocean decades later. They recognized what needed to be done, and they did it.

 

Poverty brings out the best in us, like a red strap on a white horse. Let's hope the lessons we learn remain with us long after the economy swings upwards again."

 

Causes economic growth/key to banks: "CAN poverty be a business proposition for lending institutions?

 

To most decision-makers in the banking sector, this may come as a bizarre suggestion. But a group of people is quietly working to "change this mindset" by proposing alternative models to convince bankers that profits can be reaped from banking with the poor.

 

"We are working with formal lending institutions to make them realise that poverty can be seen as a viable business idea. Formal lending institutions prefer something like a tractor loan over a hundred small loans. We want to change this mindset," said Mr Vipin Sharma, Programme Director of the CASHE Project, run by CARE. CARE is a non-governmental organisation (NGO) working in several countries across the globe.

 

CASHE, an acronym for Credit and Savings for Household Enterprise, is an ongoing five-year-old project funded by the British Government's Department of International Development (DFID).

 

As a start, CARE has begun working with the country's largest commercial bank, State Bank of India (SBI), and a few regional rural banks to propagate the micro-finance culture. The programme, with exclusively women beneficiaries, is operational in Orissa, Andhra Pradesh and West Bengal. CARE is considering widening the programme's reach to other states.

 

Mr Sharma said that besides poverty alleviation, financing the CASHE way could help banks meet their priority-sector targets. "We would like to see lenders achieve their priority-sector targets in a more creative manner," Mr Sharma told Business Line ahead of the CARE-organised three-day seminar `Microfinance India 2008,' starting on Tuesday.

 

The CASHE programme, which is looking at increasing the number of beneficiaries to 5 lakh from the existing 2.2 lakh when the close-ended project completes its tenure in December 2006, functions through a three-tier structure comprising banks as financiers, NGOs as the promoting arm and self-help groups (SHGs) comprising recipients. "We are trying to tie banks with the NGO intermediaries to strengthen the SHG movement. Some of our 25 NGOs can later turn into micro-finance institutions. Some may even become NBFCs," Mr Sharma said.

 

He said that the individuals in the SHGs are encouraged to save a small amount every week, at the end of which one of them is given a small loan on terms, including interest rate and repayment period, decided exclusively by the group itself. "The loans are not necessarily linked to commercial activity. However, loan defaults are less than 5 per cent though the interest rate on an average charged by the groups are nearly 24 per cent per annum," Mr Sharma said."

 

and because time mag says so: although, the article is from 1971

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Nearly all the replies to this thread are quite useless.

 

Poverty as a concept may be "bad", but what USFG defines as the poverty line may not be so bad. Life for Americans living in "poverty" is actually quite good: http://www.heritage.org/Research/Welfare/bg2064.cfm

 

What the aff does is not "solve poverty" but reduce unemployment enough to bring families above the poverty line.

 

Good arguments for the status quo is that jobs artificially created by government intervention have unintended consequences and are always a net-loss for the overall economy. Thus, keeping "poverty" or current unemployment levels as they are determined by the free market is necessary for overall economic growth. Unemployment will go up and down, but that cycle is part of the process of creative destruction. This is a reason why people living below what government decided as the poverty line is good for the overall health of our market economy and it also provides those people with a relatively high standard of living, as the linked article explains.

 

The other route to go would be dedev to impact turn econ advantages. This isn't the same as "poverty good", though.

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Reasons for why poverty is good:

 

environment: poor people leave a smaller footprint

 

value of life maybe: "Poverty is not pleasant or beautiful. It's no fun struggling to make ends meet. There is nothing romantic or exotic about living in a slum. Yet, sometimes it is the toughest times that accentuate our innate goodness, and bring the best in us to the fore. The human soul is full of kindness, love, and compassion. We just don't always know where to find it. Need and deprivation compel us to draw upon the great repository which we already possess.

 

Challenging times cause us to take a step back and evaluate what is important and what is not. The older generation tells of sharing their last crusts of bread with others during the meager years of WWII, of people risking their lives for the sake of others. They did not do so because they were any nobler than us, nor because they dreamt that the stories would be retold on the other side of the ocean decades later. They recognized what needed to be done, and they did it.

 

Poverty brings out the best in us, like a red strap on a white horse. Let's hope the lessons we learn remain with us long after the economy swings upwards again."

 

Causes economic growth/key to banks: "CAN poverty be a business proposition for lending institutions?

 

To most decision-makers in the banking sector, this may come as a bizarre suggestion. But a group of people is quietly working to "change this mindset" by proposing alternative models to convince bankers that profits can be reaped from banking with the poor.

 

"We are working with formal lending institutions to make them realise that poverty can be seen as a viable business idea. Formal lending institutions prefer something like a tractor loan over a hundred small loans. We want to change this mindset," said Mr Vipin Sharma, Programme Director of the CASHE Project, run by CARE. CARE is a non-governmental organisation (NGO) working in several countries across the globe.

 

CASHE, an acronym for Credit and Savings for Household Enterprise, is an ongoing five-year-old project funded by the British Government's Department of International Development (DFID).

 

As a start, CARE has begun working with the country's largest commercial bank, State Bank of India (SBI), and a few regional rural banks to propagate the micro-finance culture. The programme, with exclusively women beneficiaries, is operational in Orissa, Andhra Pradesh and West Bengal. CARE is considering widening the programme's reach to other states.

 

Mr Sharma said that besides poverty alleviation, financing the CASHE way could help banks meet their priority-sector targets. "We would like to see lenders achieve their priority-sector targets in a more creative manner," Mr Sharma told Business Line ahead of the CARE-organised three-day seminar `Microfinance India 2008,' starting on Tuesday.

 

The CASHE programme, which is looking at increasing the number of beneficiaries to 5 lakh from the existing 2.2 lakh when the close-ended project completes its tenure in December 2006, functions through a three-tier structure comprising banks as financiers, NGOs as the promoting arm and self-help groups (SHGs) comprising recipients. "We are trying to tie banks with the NGO intermediaries to strengthen the SHG movement. Some of our 25 NGOs can later turn into micro-finance institutions. Some may even become NBFCs," Mr Sharma said.

 

He said that the individuals in the SHGs are encouraged to save a small amount every week, at the end of which one of them is given a small loan on terms, including interest rate and repayment period, decided exclusively by the group itself. "The loans are not necessarily linked to commercial activity. However, loan defaults are less than 5 per cent though the interest rate on an average charged by the groups are nearly 24 per cent per annum," Mr Sharma said."

 

and because time mag says so: although, the article is from 1971

 

Environment, fine, I guess.

 

The quality of life card hurts me. Yes, our economy is in the shitter right now. Yes, some people are knocked down into actually BEING impoverished. But given how selfish Americans tend to be and how many studies there are about the various causes and complications of poverty, I think you're on the losing side of that debate, unless you're taking it in a kritikal love direction or something.

 

The growth argument about microlending is bad for reasons covered in the microlending thread. Microlending works the way it does because organizations are microlending to third world countries. I don't think the same results would occur in the US.

 

Synergy covers everything really well, actually. And THAT kind of poverty debate isn't as morally squicky as "poverty good."

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