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2009 Bob Bilyeu Winter Classic

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I will be in Springfield this weekend if you still need judges...just so you now.

 

Absolutely. Thomas or I, or the wonderful Ladies in judges will be more than happy to accommodate someone with your history in the squad/experience. Feel free to show up whenever.

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IM SO EXCITED. I am continuing the countdown (stop stealing my thunder- hayden.) IT IS TOMORROW!

 

it shall begin in 16 hours when i arrive!

get ready!

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IM SO EXCITED. I am continuing the countdown (stop stealing my thunder- hayden.) IT IS TOMORROW!

 

it shall begin in 16 hours when i arrive!

get ready!

 

i don't steal thunder sarah

i eat it

 

furthermore, i is ready.

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I know that Pembroke A hit Carthage A in quarters.

 

speaking of which, good job to both teams, but special congrats to carthage.

 

whatever your stance on project affs, k teams, whatever, it took a lot to do what you guys did, and the 2ar was quite touching.

 

i've never seen a whole room of people crying because of something like that, and it has caused me (and i'm sure i'm not alone) to think more about the problems that women face in debate, an issue that i hadn't thought much about before.

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Thanks Jeff, Haley and I really appreciate that. But yeah, sorry about the waterworks. You know women.

(har har har)

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FINALS:

 

QUARTERFINALS:

Pembroke(B) HV d. Marquette A

Pembroke(A) SB d. Carthage A

Greenwood MG d. Ladue A

Pembroke© AB d. Pattonville A

 

SEMIFINALS:

Greenwood MG d. Pembroke Hill AB

(Pembroke closed out

 

FINALS:

Pembroke(B) HV d. Greenwood MG

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speaking of which, good job to both teams, but special congrats to carthage.

 

whatever your stance on project affs, k teams, whatever, it took a lot to do what you guys did, and the 2ar was quite touching.

 

i've never seen a whole room of people crying because of something like that, and it has caused me (and i'm sure i'm not alone) to think more about the problems that women face in debate, an issue that i hadn't thought much about before.

 

I really appreciate that, Jeff. We thought about it for a while, and I think conceding the round is the best way to prove that we were serious.

 

Congratulations to Pembroke A!

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Girls I can speak for my whole team by saying we love you both extremly much fo sho. We claim you as our new adoptees. We love you and thank you bunches, we were kind of in shock at first when you conceded the round. It proved that it was a really movement and it worked. Thank you for joining in our movement.

Love Chasity and the rest of the M-town team.

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Confirming what Chas said, our team has officially taken you as one of our own. We love you guys so much. You are amazing and we're really proud of you for standing up for this movement. You helped us to get the word out in ways that a lot of teams thought could never happen, which is what it's all about. Thank you so much for standing with us. We love you from the bottom of our hearts. Love, Taylor J and Marshfield

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Congratz Pembroke! and also Greenwood!

 

Carthage-

That was by far my favorite round of all time. That was a pretty intense 2AR. What you did was amazing and completly unexpected, especially after the comments from our third round judge. U knew the reality of how it might go down, and u still ran it, and ran it well. U proved the point we tried to get across by doing that in front of a pembroke team, 3 flows, and a room full of people. U gave up quarters of champ PARKVIEW for that and all of M-Town debate thankx you for it. We love you girls and wish you the best of luck!! Ur amazing, thank you. !Shawna

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I heard great things about the Marshfield advocacy, I sat down and had a short chat with Chris about it, and so my first real thoughts on the case were best summed up as "Cool". But then, as I tend to do with cases I have just heard of, I broke it down while doing the thoroughly enjoying task of cleaning the school.

 

So I have a question or two, and if you can answer them, great, if not, I'm sure I'll eventually hit you so we'll see then.

 

I start this with my most pressing inquiry: How is it that your affirmative functions so well in a debate world if not completely accepting of then nearly there, of female debaters? You make an ostensible claim, or so I presume, of the bias or outright exclusion of women in debate. Then I think, women excluded...the best-run tournament in the state is headed by Nancy Wedgeworth, who also won state in her day. Then I go deeper, two of the judges in that round were talented female college debaters. Katie and Judith were opponents that when they were still on our circuit were someone I would dread debating, and should I do College debate, will be even more terrifying.

 

Then I think to last year's Champ CX, Katie, Sarah, Annie and Myra closed out after semifinals of policy. And that's not to mention the fantastic female lab leaders I had at camp. Heather Walters is probably one of if not the fastest yet clearest debater, like, ever. There are tons of other women debaters that are awesome that I haven't mentioned, but the point is that they're there.

 

So, what the hell is the problem?

Edited by My Pet Monster

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I heard great things about the Marshfield advocacy, I sat down and had a short chat with Chris about it, and so my first real thoughts on the case were best summed up as "Cool". But then, as I tend to do with cases I have just heard of, I broke it down while doing the thoroughly enjoying task of cleaning the school.

 

So I have a question or two, and if you can answer them, great, if not, I'm sure I'll eventually hit you so we'll see then.

 

I start this with my most pressing inquiry: How is it that your affirmative functions so well in a debate world if not completely accepting of then nearly there, of female debaters? You make an ostensible claim, or so I presume, of the bias or outright exclusion of women in debate. Then I think, women excluded...the best-run tournament in the state is headed by Nancy Wedgeworth, who also won state in her day. Then I go deeper, two of the judges in that round were talented female college debaters. Katie and Judith were opponents that when they were still on our circuit were someone I would dread debating, and should I do College debate, will be even more terrifying.

 

Then I think to last year's Champ CX, Katie, Sarah, Annie and Myra closed out after semifinals of policy. And that's not to mention the fantastic female lab leaders I had at camp. Heather Walters is probably one of if not the fastest yet clearest debater, like, ever. There are tons of other women debaters that are awesome that I haven't mentioned, but the point is that they're there.

 

So, what the hell is the problem?

If you actually look at our case we specifically say that just because there are a few exceptions doesnt mean there isnt ne discrimination and Katie Sarah Annie and Myra are actually 4 of the females we mention as exceptions.

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Job well done to all teams competing this weekend. It was an honor to be able to come back to the community and judge. I was thoroughly impressed by both teams in finals who provided a highly competitive and skilled debate. Greenwood and Pem Hill should both be proud of how well they did this weekend.

 

Unfortunately I was in a different CCX round while the carthage vs pem round was occurring...anyone care to fill us in on what exactly went down in this round?

 

Side note to the Parkview squad as well specifically Wedge, Matt Price, Ben Campbell, Jacob Walden, and Thomas Andrews, for running a very efficient tournament as well as stacking most CCX rounds with flow judges. Allowing for these judges gives your tournament a great reputation and really allows for some great debates to occur!

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Unfortunately I was in a different CCX round while the carthage vs pem round was occurring...anyone care to fill us in on what exactly went down in this round?

 

Sarah and Haley ran womyn in debate on aff and debated it very well. One of the arguements that Pembroke ran was that since Sarah and Haley had not been running the aff all tournament that they were not really supporting the movement, but simply running the aff to win the round. In the 2AR Sarah stood up and conceded the round to Pembroke hill in order to show their support for the movement and prove that they were serious about it. It was amazing and half the room was crying, the other half too shocked to cry. If you would like to read the case, it is on the swmo high school case list, here's the link:

http://swmohighschoolcaselist.wikispaces.com/Marshfield+%28and+Carthage%29-+Womyn+in+Debate

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You make an ostensible claim, or so I presume, of the bias or outright exclusion of women in debate.

 

Not quite. The aff focuses not on the exclusion of womyn in debate but rather the discrimination against womyn in debate. Furthermore, when you look at the text of the aff it takes into account that there ARE successful female CX debaters, yet that doesn't cancel out the prevalent sexism.

 

Also, the point of the aff isn't to call people in CX debate sexist - it's to say that sexism is present on both the concious and subconcious level, and we need to demolish it. A great example of this is saying you "raped" a team. I'll be completely honest and admit that I have used that term without giving it much thought - the point of the aff is to change that thought process.

 

At least, this is my interpretation. I, of course, did not write the aff - props to Marshfield for that. Jacob, I'd encourage you to look at the link Taylor posted.

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If you actually look at our case we specifically say that just because there are a few exceptions doesnt mean there isnt ne discrimination and Katie Sarah Annie and Myra are actually 4 of the females we mention as exceptions.

 

A few exceptions? There are many, many excellent female debaters. Enough that there isn't an exception, in an equal showing of both genders. As I said, Wedge won state when she was in High School, long enough ago to be relevant. Even aside from that many issues still remain, in your advocates.

 

Your first evidential author has one article that I have found actually relevant to debate, and that is a groundless complaint about the alleged exclusion of the 'non-men' in debate. What I read is her criticism of how she's not seen as one of the team. Really? When I attended SDI in Michigan this summer, there was actually a glaring lack of males. In any of the three levels of labs, there were far more girls than guys. Half of the top ten speakers were girls, with the top speaker being one. What I see is her saying they don't think about her as one of them, what I actually read is that she hasn't made an effort to be accepted among them. The second author link was 404'd.

 

I find the third evidence humorous, and not for some of the mistakes like the criticism for CEDA and the NDT because CEDA has more women debaters. (It will have more debaters, CEDA is open, the NDT is based on bids.) It goes deeper than that, working off of the idea from the first article of sexism in debate, the assertions on standards in SWMO, and the third article of possible reasons why this sexism exists. This is where my serious doubts begin, and why were this true, I would be significantly skeptical that we would witness any of the following. Parkview as a squad is sixth in the nation for our success at nationals. Our head coach? Nancy Wedgeworth, who is fantastic at that. In addition, we mainly qualified females at NFLs, from a squad that is comprised no less than half by women.

 

The Neosho squad, on the other hand, is second in the nation. So while Mr. Watkins is, of course, male, they are on the same lines of Parkview. They have many girls girls, and many of them are in policy. Mary Kellogg was on the team that won state last year, remember? How could this be at all possible if sexism was this ubiquitous force in southwest Missouri?

 

It makes a problem of girls not being in policy. So? So what if they do LD or Public Forum? If you criticize these debates then are you not criticizing those debaters as well? And then how do you avoid that you are thus actively engaging in exclusion by making them seem less talented and intelligent than Policy debaters?

 

So I ask again, what the hell is the problem?

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On behalf of Pembroke we'd like to thank Parkview for an incredibly well-run tournament. Lewis and I never once had a lay judge the entire tournament which was almost unbelievable.

 

We'd like to thank all the competitors who made this tournament enjoyable, especially Greenwood for once again beating our asses on Zizek.

 

I'd like to thank Carthage for the quarters round. I have a lot of thoughts about the project itself but I'm not going to discuss those on Cross-x. I would say that I think this is an incredibly important issue, as much of what is said in the 1AC rings true to me. I have slight qualms with its presentation in a competitive win-loss activity like debate and I'd be interested to discuss this more thoroughly with Mr. Roberds or anyone else at a later date.

 

All in all, fantastic tournament. Congrats to Peter and Tom-Tom, Missouri's sexiest and best team of brothers and Greenwood as well. From the closeness of the decision and the 2NR/2AR it looked like a great round.

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