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West Bloomfield Varsity has run

Native PTCs

Organics

and two of our teams have run RPS and Brazil respectively

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Brad, your right, but I thought I would try to change that. There just isn't any compelling reason not to do full aff dicloser.

 

Everyone else: Groves has taken the time and trouble to post a full aff outline for everyone to see. As I pointed out previously, simply giving a two word summary of your aff is pretty much pointless. It would be great if you could give us more info (Plan text at minimum, tags and sites would be nice). I can't think of a single reason not to do this. I'm not asking for the world, new affs to be disclosed or 2ac sites, just what you have already broken. Thanks.

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I rarely read/post on cross-x, but I've noticed that Zack's effort at creating a case list for the State Tournament has been turned into some sort of joke. I think this is sad - a case list for the State Tournament would not only help everyone with pre-tournament preparations, but would also (I think) greatly improve both the quality of debates and their educational value.
Ah, now I feel like a jerk Katie... :( But quoted for truth.

 

I'm working on creating a wikispaces page just for the state of Michigan. Updates soon
Status report? I can't speak with certainty as I have to run it by a few of my teams varsity member's first (as its not to my advantage/disadvantage as their coach, it's their choice), but I personally am willing to upload cites a la Groves.

 

Here's the basic ish circa novice states that our varsity will be running:

Plantext: The United States Congress should procure all the necessary components for the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor from industries within the United States.

 

Advantages: US-EU relations, Science Diplomacy, Competitiveness (Terminal impacts: econ collapse, nano good, bioweapons, space exploration, terrorism, proliferation, food scarcity)

 

 

We should be able to get a version with full cites up probably around/after EK.

 

I suppose I feel the need to defend my joking earlier in the thread. Well I probably should have treated this with more seriousness, the fact that my novices weren't running what they'd ran all season would've made disclosure for that tournament kinda pointless. But yeah, no excuse I guess...

 

I'm in total agreement with what Groves is suggesting and I think those sorts of casebooks are great for debate. While I think we all recognize there's no way in hell schools like Mona Shores or Cadillac would ever contribute to such a caselist (which well I don't agree with them, is perfectly within their rights and not a big deal) there needs to be a way to get the 'middle of the road' schools who maybe don't nationally travel to contribute to such a casebook.

 

Correct me if I'm speaking out my butt here but doesn't Groves have to post their stuff as some sort of explicit or implicit requirement for Glenbrooks or other TOC events? While I think that even without said requirement Groves would be happy to give any team who asked their cites (because they're ballers), it's a difference to be noted.

 

So I think the question is how to get the FHN's, Dexter's, H.H. Dow's, Ann Arbor Pioneers, DCD's etc. etc. of the debate community to contribute full cites to the list so it doesn't just end up being like one or two teams?

 

I think the response to this needs to be twofold. 1. their needs to be some sort of incentive to push a team on the fence to the side of disclosure. Perhaps password protecting a case list until a team discloses?

 

The second step is the need to reach out to a bunch of schools who might like to disclose but have no idea this thread exists. Out of the thirty or so teams that will be at states maybe like 5 of those schools have a regular presence on this site. This would require someone (or somebodies) to maybe have an announcement made at the EK tournament and JV states or a mass email to coaches. We need to bring this thread and idea to those who don't know it exists.

 

My two cents. Apologies again.

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I want to apologize - this has gotten a bit out of hand and somewhat hostile, which it was never meant to be. I do still think that mutual aff disclosure is beneficial for all parties involved - debaters, coaches, and judges, and I think that disclosing plan text and advantages with an explanation of the internal-link and impact scenarios would be helpful *but* unnecessary if you don't feel the need to include said explanation.

 

A side comment - I don't think anyone who was joking previously on this thread is a jerk, I only wanted to try and re-focus the thread on its original purpose ... to try and create a sort of case list for the State tournament. From someone who debated at a small school in high school, I don't want to come off as hostile and/or elitist, and truly apologize if anyone has taken offense to my post or those in response to mine.

 

Also, I second Patrick's suggestion of trying to make an announcement about this case list/thread at the EK tournament - maybe if Pete is still keeping up with this thread he could make it happen.

 

Katie

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Pssh, we're straight. No accusations of elitism or maliciousness were intended to be implied or accused by me.

 

Thanks for correcting the direction of the thread and for disclosing your biz :)

 

Good luck to everyone in January and at States!

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I, too, rarely post on here, let alone visit the website. However, I am compelled to verbalize an opinion, because the idea of nondisclosure of the affirmative case hurts the progression of the activity itself. It also guarantees a less educational debate. At the very least, it is only fair to expand on my paradigm with regard to theory.

 

Debate is a progressive activity. Trace the origins of competitive debate. A long time ago, teams spoke at conversation speed. Also, teams did not run kritiks prior to early 1980s. However, in the early 1980s, the kritik was born. NDT and CEDA were separate organizations. That is, NDT teams generally did not debate at CEDA, vice versa. NDT teams generally did not run kritiks, but some CEDA teams did. Bill Shanahan is largely credited with introducing kritiks to NDT teams. The argument trickled down to the high school circuit about 7 to 10 years later, and it has been run ever since. (By the way, NDT and CEDA merged in 1995 – I think.) The same can be said for affirmative disclosure. More than 20 years ago, teams rarely, if ever, disclosed their affirmative case. However, in the mid-1990s, it became more accepted, although some teams would do it under the condition that the negative disclose their strategy. In the late 1990s and early 2000s, almost every team disclosed. Over the past few years, I have noticed a trend that is more traditional, to say the very least. The progression of the activity was moving towards full disclosure, but the pendulum seems to be swinging the other way.

 

As I said above, nondisclosure of the affirmative case hurts the progression of the activity. I cannot say for certain that there is a correlation between the changes in debate, but it is interesting to note that the changes in debate (e.g. style, type of arguments, etc.) occurred at similar time intervals. With that being said, I need to admit that the lens in which I view nondisclosure is from someone who started the activity in 1993, but was exposed to “old school” debate as well.

 

As Katie said earlier, the debate round will be less education if a team does not disclose their affirmative case. As an affirmative team, you have infinite prep time and should know your affirmative case better than anyone. Because you specify your ground, you should know all of the ground given to the negative. That is, you should know every argument the negative team may potentially run against you. I will get into the theory discussion below, but you get my point – because the affirmative define their ground, they should be able to predict what the negative ground will be. In addition, the debate becomes more in depth. In college, teams willingly disclose almost everything and put it on listservs. If your argument is that everything that happens in collegiate debate shouldn’t trickle down to high school, I agree to a very limited extent, but not with regard to disclosure. One of the reasons why I penalize the speaker points of someone who makes new arguments in the 2NC is because the 1AR does not have as much time as the 2AC to make effective arguments. The 2NC forces a less educational debate. However, arguments that are further extrapolated in the negative block provide for a more in depth discussion of the issues. Likewise, a negative team that has time (whether it be an hour or a month) to develop a good strategy will always make for a better debate.

 

If I am your judge, let me tell you a persuasive argument. The idea of nondisclosure speaks to the issue of abuse and fairness. For instance, with regard to topicality, it is legitimate for at affirmative team to answer predictability by stating that they disclosed their case prior to the round, allowing the negative team sufficient time to develop a strategy. Likewise, it is fair for the negative team to argue predictability if the affirmative team does not disclose. I am not sure if the argument of nondisclosure functions as offense or defense, but it is persuasive, at the very least, to say something like “We access predictability better because we disclosed our affirmative (or they didn’t disclose their affirmative).” I am limiting the discussion to predictability, but the same logic applies to other theory arguments, such as ground loss and the like. This does not mean that nondisclosure by itself is a voting issue. The negative team does not have the right to disclosure. That is, a negative team can’t say “The affirmative didn’t disclose, and, therefore, we should win.” But not disclosing will only hurt you if I am your judge.

 

Does a team always need to disclose their affirmative? No. There are two instances when a team should not disclose their affirmative. First, if they are running a new affirmative. Second, if it is their first affirmative round of the year.

 

An argument against disclosure is that “the students are now debating the coaches, not the debaters.” This is not a persuasive argument to me for a couple of reasons. First, coaches often help write the affirmative case and blocks to negative arguments. Second, debates are not usually won in the constructive. Things happen in the debate that usually requires the debaters to think on their own.

 

In sum, it is only beneficial to disclose your affirmative. If you don’t generally disclose, you probably should if I am in the back of the room.

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I don't run the other Aff's so I'll ask if the others want to post theirs but this is mine (and before anyone asks this was not stolen from the college topic, all original :))

Inherency

1. The increases in prices for petroleum, seeds, and pesticides are currently driving up non-organic farming costs.

Sampson ’06 (Bob, 07/14/2006 “Fuel not solely to blame for rising farm production costs”, http:// http://www.agriculture.com/ag/story.jhtml?storyid=/templatedata/ag/story/data/1152907687882.xml&catref=ag1001)

"Since 1980, no other - than in previous years."

2. The current practice of non-organic farming w/ GMO’s have led to the development of harmful monocultures

Thompson ’07 (7/17/07, professor of political economy at Northern Arizona University, Africa: Green Revolution or Rainbow Evolution?, http://www.fpif.org/fpiftxt/4398)

“Increasing yields to parent - genetic material available for future breeding.”

Adv. 1 Hunger

1. Current methods of solving world hunger are actually worsening the crisis

Kimbrell ’02 (Andrew Kimbrell, 2002, “The Fatal Harvest Reader”, The Foundation for Deep Ecology, Ed. The Island Press)

“Currently, most government - that promotes food independence.”

2. Foods security outweighs all other impacts – it makes every impact inevitable

Trudell ’05 (Robert H., Fall, Food Security Emergencies And The Power Of Eminent Domain: A Domestic Legal Tool To Treat A Global Problem, 33 Syracuse J. Int'l L. & Com. 277, Lexis)

“Today, more than 842 million - danger in the days to come.”

3. We have an ethical obligation to avoid delay, and our model will spread

Kern02 (Manfred, African Journal of Food & Nutritional Sciences (now African Journal of Food, Agriculture, Nutrition and Development), Vol. 2, No. 2, July, 2002 http://www.bioline.org.br/request?nd02012)

“The industrialized and newly - to the necessary responsible action.”

4. Hunger is an underlying cause of conflicts. Failing to solve will mean war

Food & Agriculture Organization of the United Nations ‘02 (MULTI STAKEHOLDER DIALOGUE: Food, Security, Justice and Peace,” 2002 pg. http://www.fao.org/worldfoodsummit/msd/Y6808e.htm#P43_14217) “Nowadays, the boundaries of moral - in immediate post-conflict situations.”

5. Organic farming can solve, it has the potential to double or triple yields worldwide

Bailey ‘07, (Laura Bailey, U of Michigan News Service, July 10, p. Inet) http://www.ns.umich.edu/htdocs/releases/story.php?id=5936

“ANN ARBOR, Mich.—‘Organic farming can yield up to three - into production.’”

Adv. 2 Disease

1. Use of GMO’s pave the way for deadly super-viruses

Arnold ’03 (Dr. Bill Arnold, University of Minnesota, Spring 2003, http://www.ce.umn.edu/classes/spring03/ce3501/ GMO.pdf)

“Probably the most serious - are very close (Genetic Engineering Superviruses).”

2. These diseases can’t be stopped – GMO’s cause antibody resistance

JoDene ’03 (Kim JoDene Donat, JD/MPP @ UMinn, Minn. Journal of Global Trade, Summer 2003, 12 Minn. J. Global Trade 417, ln)

“Other health specialists fear - unsupported by scientific evidence.”

3. These diseases will mutate quickly and spread worldwide

UDaily 06 [(U.S. can help halt spread of diseases, Africa expert says,” 2:51 p.m., March 23, 2006, pg. http://www.udel.edu/PR/UDaily/2006/mar/global032306.html) 2:51 p.m., March 23, 2006

“Although globalization has transformed - halt the spread of devastating diseases.”

4. Even conservative estimates conclude that a global epidemic will kill over 100 million people. No other threat compares in liklihood and lethality

Falkenrath ‘06 [Richard A. Falkenrath, Former Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Policy, Former Plans within the Office of Homeland Security, and Former Director for Proliferation Strategy on the National Security Council, “PUBLIC HEALTH MEDICAL PREPAREDNESS,” Committee on Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions, CQ Congressional Testimony, March 16, 2006 Thursday, pg. l/n)

“ A catastrophic disease event is - poor defenses and countermeasures, and consequence.”

5. And we have increased probability because malnutrition can cause a spike in epidemics of communicable diseases

Devereux ‘01 [sTEPHEN DEVEREUX, “Sen’s Entitlement Approach: Critiques and Counter-critiques,” Oxford Development Studies, Vol. 29, No. 3, 2001)

“There are two ways in which - scaled up from the household to the group level.”

Adv. 3 Biodiversity

1. GMO monocultures threatens agricultural diversity

Altieri ’00 (Miguel A. Altieri, Agroecology prof @ Berkeley, Foreign Policy, June 22, 2000, “Poor farmers won’t reap the benefits,”)

“Biotechnology threatens to exacerbate - farmers in the future.”

2. Agricultural genetic diversity is especially key to check extinction

Fowler and Mooney ’90 (Cary Fowler and Pat Mooney, Rural Advancement Fund Int’l, 1990, Shattering, p. ix)

“While many may ponder - half their harvest and many of their farmers.”

3. Pesticide runoff causes excessive algae growth creating dead spots that massively affects ocean bio-diversity

 

Schwartz ’05 (Mark, March 10th 2005, “Ocean ecosystems plagued by agricultural runoff”, Stanford News Service, <http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2005/march16/gulf-030905.html>)

 

“According to the researchers - use is predicted to double or triple over the next 50 years."

 

4. And, loss of ocean biodiversity causes extinction.

Diner94 (David, Ph.D., Planetary Science and Geology, "The Army and the Endangered Species Act: Who's Endangering Whom?," Military Law Review, 143 Mil. L. Rev. 161)

“To accept that the snail - may be edging closer to the abyss”

5. Biodiversity loss outweighs nuclear war, economic collapse, and tyranny

Chen ‘00 (Jim, Professor of Law at the U of Minnesota, Minnesota Journal of Global Trade Winter 2000, pg. 211)

“The value of endangered - perhaps a hundred million.”

6. Each realization is critical, one step at a time – the movement can build on today to create a more sustainable future

Devall ’01 (Bill Devall, consultant to the Foundation for Deep Ecology in San Francisco and Professor Emeritus in Sociology at Humboldt State University, “The Deep, Long-Range Ecology Movement, 1960-2000__A Review,” Ethics & the Environment 6.1 (2001) 18-41.)

“Naess himself says he - implement projects with tribal and First Nation peoples.”

Thus Our Plan Text:

The United States Federal Government should substantially increase incentives for solar and biomass alternative energies within the United States by subsidizing organic farming excluding the use of genetically engineered crops to the extent of keeping food prices at competitive prices. Funding and Enforcement guaranteed through normal means.

Solvency

1. Subsidies are necessary to support the jump to organic agriculture

Digitale ’08 (Erin Digitale, June 4th 2008, “Big Farms can make the leap to Organic Farming, Study Suggests”, mongabay.com, < http://news.mongabay.com/2008/0604-ucsc_digitale_organic.html>)

“Crop yields improved - It's the social result as well.”

2. Organic agriculture can solve for pesticides, and biodiversity

National Food Security Assembly ‘05 (September 30 – October 2. Ryerson University. search.ryerson.ca. 37) “Organic agriculture has the potential - and quality seed production.”

3. Organic Agriculture Best Solves Hunger

Ching ’03 (Lim Li Ching, Deputy Editor of Science in Society with B.Sc. in Ecology (1st Class Honours) at Lancaster University UK, Winter 2003, “Organic Agriculture Fights Back”, The Institute of Science in Society, http://www.greens.org/s-r/30/30-15.html, Accessed 7/11/07)

“Despite adequate global - proven sustainable agricultural practices.”

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it should be noted that some of the west bloomfield teams read a framework underview

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Status report?

Almost done. http://micaselist.wikispaces.com/

 

While I think we all recognize there's no way in hell schools like Mona Shores or Cadillac would ever contribute to such a caselist (which well I don't agree with them, is perfectly within their rights and not a big deal) there needs to be a way to get the 'middle of the road' schools who maybe don't nationally travel to contribute to such a casebook.

Thats why I made the caselist. After you debate one of the teams that won't disclose before round you can post their aff on their page on the wiki.

 

Correct me if I'm speaking out my butt here but doesn't Groves have to post their stuff as some sort of explicit or implicit requirement for Glenbrooks or other TOC events? While I think that even without said requirement Groves would be happy to give any team who asked their cites (because they're ballers), it's a difference to be noted.

This is true. Usually it is an implicit thing, but still people give you crap if it is not up there.

 

The second step is the need to reach out to a bunch of schools who might like to disclose but have no idea this thread exists. Out of the thirty or so teams that will be at states maybe like 5 of those schools have a regular presence on this site. This would require someone (or somebodies) to maybe have an announcement made at the EK tournament and JV states or a mass email to coaches. We need to bring this thread and idea to those who don't know it exists.

 

Good idea. I won't be at EK, but spread the word around.

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FHC reads SPS.

 

We have rotating advantages: Economy, Energy Independence, NASA Credibility, Hegemony, and Space Colonization.

 

I'll get up a case outline as soon as I can. =]

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Nice to see this and the wiki. It's a great idea and will definitely help schools with small debate teams like South Lyon at JV and Varsity States. I hope other teams continue adding their outlines to the wiki.

 

South Lyon (Brennen and I) have run two affs,

 

-Department of Defense Energy Efficiency

Advantages:

- Military Effectiveness

- Afghanistan

 

-Ethanol Aviation Gasoline

Advantages:

- Chinese Growth

- Air Pollution

- Montreal Protocol w/ Ozone Depletion Impacts

- Agriculture

 

-Our other team was running Native Wind Production Tax Credits I believe

 

I'll try getting our plan texts and case outlines up on the wiki hopefully before the East Kentwood tournament.

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Thank you to everyone who has contributed to the case list over the past few weeks. I just wanted to let everyone know that I will be at states this weekend and I will continue to update the case list while I am judging the tournament. If you want information added to the case list and you don't have access to a computer this weekend, just give me a paper copy with a summary of the argument and I can add it for you. Hopefully this can check the advantage of huge schools that have the capacity to have a debater scouting in every round of the tournament.

 

If you have any questions about the case list, you can email me at brad.gmu@gmail.com or call me at (248) 225-3543.

Edited by oneAC

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May i suggest that we bring this back, it seems to be still there just still with last year's stuff on it.

Also, where should i email my cites to, to get them on there?

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I agree. A case list would probably be a good thing for Michigan debate and help the state have better debates.

 

I was wondering how much we want to model the the college case list.

For example, in college cites are only posted after that position is read in round (ie broke).

 

Also, in college, teams scout and ask other teams for cites after the round. I was wondering what the Michigan debate community thought about getting cites after round. I have never seen it happen, and wonder whether or not people thought this is an acceptible practice here in Michigan.

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May i suggest that we bring this back, it seems to be still there just still with last year's stuff on it.

Also, where should i email my cites to, to get them on there?

I've been meaning to clean out the site and get it ready for this year. For now you can send them to me at brad.gmu@gmail.com. I should have the site cleaned up and ready to go in the next couple of days, hopefully in time for the Okemos tournament this weekend.

 

 

Also, in college, teams scout and ask other teams for cites after the round. I was wondering what the Michigan debate community thought about getting cites after round. I have never seen it happen, and wonder whether or not people thought this is an acceptible practice here in Michigan.

Quite a few teams were willing to put their cites on the caselist last year; hopefully they will be again.

 

 

BTW, for anyone that did not have it, here's the URL for the caselist - http://micaselist.wikispaces.com/.

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