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Arkansas Debaters!!!

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ok derek, i see where you are coming from now. Changes need to be made, but also the team needs a figure of leadership. We have degraded etter until she is viewed as nothing more than a scapegoat. Still she will be the one there to outlast any of us, therefore i think we should seek to give etter more knowledge and respect.

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Hey guys for those if you who don't know me I'm a varsity debater at bentonville. I would have to agree that the judging was blatenly terrible. To be honest, 3 sheridian teams should never all break and docking points for things like spreading and running K's isn't fair to the teams that have proven themselves all year. I was 1 speaker point away from breaking and I honestly blame the judge. Spreading was never inner paradigms and therefor docking me 3 points is unacceptable. This is not a new issue either. All yea the judge pool has been getting worse and worse. I had a judge in my finals round at Fayetteville against don and Anda who's only paradigm was "good manners."

I feel like the best judges should be used in the biggest rounds. CAC and quentin smith judging champ TOC finals is unacceptable.

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I will take all the crap I need to but I will defend gunselman or CAC. He is a good judge compared to the rest.

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chris you can defend him all you want but if you had seen his ballot for finals you would have a different opinion. Be said "aff refuted all arguments however I don't think the plan is a good idea" interventionalist?? Haha

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Guys on the judging issue, i tried my absolute best to get in there and judge. I was denied the right to judge champ finals, i only hope the rounds i did judge aren't the ones being complained about. Thompson didn't flow in the round i judged with her with as much as she used to, so i agree with that conclusion.

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Gunsleman is a bad judge, Hollis is now a lay judge. And kremin, you weren't necessarily 1 point away but one rank away. Mike and I had NO reason to be voted down against beck/stone. Even if you had a "white wins" paradigm

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Actually don if my 3rd round judge had given me 1 more point I would have moved up 2 ranks. There were 3 people in the oumd with a 27 and one with a 26. If she gave me the point I would have gone from a 27 to a 28 and had my rank changed from 3rd to first haha

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I have now heard from multiple debaters that the quality of judging at the Arkansas TOURNAMENT OF CHAMPIONS (by the way, the fact that this tournament is called this is, um, ironic in the extreme) was sub-par to say the least. Anyone want to agree or disagree?

 

Even though I didn't go to *STATE* (I agree with Jordan that calling it the "Tournament of Champions" is most un-apt and somewhat insulting to the debaters who have actually qualified for the real TOC both in state and out), I was anxiously texting people for results. Central closing out novice breakout and winning first at several tournaments but not even getting to finals at state is illegitimate to the infinite degree. Seubert / Kang winning against Brizollara / Sanati, that I don't know about. Very equally matched, different debating styles.

 

Even PARKVIEW (who doesn't even have a policy team) had better judges than state. Why not get judges from the Bentonville and LR Central tournaments too to judge at state? Those seem to have the most legit judging (sorry, I've never been to Southside or NLR tournament, so I can't say anything about them).

 

But it's good to hear that more schools are going out of state (AHEM Rogers Heritage).

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I wish that we had the judges from those tournaments. Thenance and I wouldn't get boned in prelim rounds. By the flow lance and I won against sanati brizzolara.

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I wish that we had the judges from those tournaments. Thenance and I wouldn't get boned in prelim rounds. By the flow lance and I won against sanati brizzolara.

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...so arrogant?

 

This year, I had the pleasure of working with two Arkansas debaters who ended up having some success on the national circuit. They won some speaker awards, got to a national TOC bid round, made it to out-rounds at several tournaments, etc.

 

Yesterday morning they learned that, due to some cancellations by Texas high schools worried about the H1N1 virus, they could debate at the national TOC if they could get their stuff together in half a day and be in Lexington by 9:00 pm yesterday. Since they couldn't make all that happen in half a day, they declined the invitation. And I'm sure they are sick about it.

 

But I am not posting this story to brag about them, although I am very proud of them. I am posting this story because, these same 2 debaters, the very same Arkansas debaters who just received an invitation to the national TOC (widely perceived among all the stalwarts of national high school policy debate as "THE national tournament"), were "awarded" the very LAST and next to LAST amount of speaker points at the Arkansas TOC.

 

This marked disconnect can only lead me to conclude that all the ignorant Arkansas judges must actually think that they know significantly more about POLICY debate than J.W. Patterson and all the other incredible debate minds behind the national TOC. And I am sick about it.

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...so arrogant?

 

Yesterday morning they learned that, due to some cancellations by Texas high schools worried about the H1N1 virus, they could debate at the national TOC if they could get their stuff together in half a day and be in Lexington by 9:00 pm yesterday. Since they couldn't make all that happen in half a day, they declined the invitation.

 

Umm, what was TOC expecting to hear as an answer to that invitation?

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in a blast from the past...

 

I just thought it was funny to see kids from southside complaining about judges not flowing.

 

 

That is all

 

I suppose things have changed.

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I do not know who claimed that Arkansas judges are as qualified as those on the national tournament, but as i have stated before and will again, in most of the rounds we assigned what judges we had. We can only assign the judges teams bring, if debaters don't like the judges and don't think they are qualified bring better judges. Of course i am refering to the arkansas TOC throughout this post. Congrads to the national bid guys!

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Yes. Stereotypes. Got to love them.

 

On the judging note, the judging sucked and chris we don't have a choice on the judges that other teams bring. We have crappy judges becuase coaches allow their old kids to come and judge and then we have the lay judges. Even if we brought the best avaiable, it would still suck becuase other teams would bring I.E. Judges that are feces to debate. State had some of the worst judging I have seen all year with Fayetteville being a close second. It is and isn't the coordinators fault on this. It is becuase you guys used up or simply didn't use your best judges. It's notbecuase you have a select pool of 5 or 6 judges who actually know what the hell they are doing. Thompson walks in to my first round having not judged all year long. That's a mistake right there. The coordinators need to know which judges understand the topic and which ones have not listened to this topic all year long. Lance and I lost that round on the fact that Thompson would not listen or flow our arguments. It was ridiculous that she judged that round. It was ridiculous that she was judging any round at that point in year. It was bad judging. Re only way to fix this though in my opinion is hiring judges. Asca has the budget.

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Just a side note here, I think I'm gonna try and throw together a presentation for the lay judges before the central tourney next year. Just cover some of the basics of the topic, and debate in general. I think that this is definitely something schools should do before they begin to complain about the judging pool available for their tournaments... it's not like things are going to magically change if we complain long enough. Even 10 minutes of basic education about debate could be enough to begin to change the quality of judging in Arkansas, and I would encourage every school's students to try and educate their judges before they're thrown into rounds.

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We didnt simply use up our judges in prelims. We were short on judges even here. I illegally had to jump in and judge several of the prelims. We had to use every judge at our disposal. We had no choice to put qualified judges in or out, we had to use all.

 

As for out-rounds that sucks, it really does. Nobody likes to loose those of course. Vicki hasn't judged this year that is true, we had mostly dirty judges by that point and I will acknowledge there probably were better judges that could be assigned to that round still yet. I apologize for what is considered an unfair round. I am honestly surprised Vicki didn't take it as seriously as she should have, according to this testiment. If it means anything at all, I apologize to you. You are a kick ass debater and anyone who denies that simply hasn't seen you debate. I would really like to possibly look further into the possibility of hiring judges, right now Cross-x is being forced to transform into IPDA style of slow talking and is drifting away from what the national circuit stands for which i disagree with strongly. For example, in one of my rounds i had a team ask my paradigms and i told them to spread. To give me all they got because i wanted to see a great round of CROSS-X debate and they couldn't go any faster than any average person could read! If anyone has any more suggestions for TOC i am fully willing to listen and try to get them applied for next year. Key word TRY.

Edited by sshscaptain

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Just a side note here, I think I'm gonna try and throw together a presentation for the lay judges before the central tourney next year. Just cover some of the basics of the topic, and debate in general. I think that this is definitely something schools should do before they begin to complain about the judging pool available for their tournaments... it's not like things are going to magically change if we complain long enough. Even 10 minutes of basic education about debate could be enough to begin to change the quality of judging in Arkansas, and I would encourage every school's students to try and educate their judges before they're thrown into rounds.

 

I like this idea. There were a lot of lay judges at the Central tournament last year and they all mobbed me with questions. I didn't have time to answer most of them, but I did my best.

 

Schools should also try and do a better job of letting their alumni know about tournaments in advance so that people can try to shake loose from their jobs, etc. in order to judge.

 

You'll never get me to stop complaining about the judging pool until real change occurs, but I wholeheartedly agree that we must do more than simply complain about judges on the Interwebs.

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i had a team ask my paradigms and i told them to spread.

 

Word.

 

AR debate won't change unless the debaters finally decide to change it. Ian's idea is legit.

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