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Arkansas Debaters!!!

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Continued: They aren't discussing philosophy to try to educate the judges. If they were then I despair to think that they were in finals. I think that the point they were trying to make is that the rhetoric of the K is flawed and that it should not be evaluated as a disadvantage to the case because the rhetoric is not logical in the real world. Also, I doubt they did the better job of debating, because I doubt they explained it like that.

 

 

2nd Paragraph

That said, run your critiques! Run your disads, run cps (conditional and not), and for god's sake run topicality every round if you have to! Just make it relevant to what's going on. I sat in on the finals at NLR and honestly I disagree with the 2-1 split for the aff. The neg had me after the 1AR when they extended the dropped T. However, that doesn't mean that the negative debater (props for maverick) couldn't have done a better job bringing home the impact topicality had on his ground or on whatever his voters and standards were. I know I have debated many a round where the C&D points of my topicality blocks were: "C.Standards 1.Educations 2.Bright line D. Voters 1. Ground 2.Fairness" Looking back, what the hell does that mean? Each round is new and different, treat them as such. Don't assume judges know anything because more often than not in AR (i'm sure you know this) they don't.
I would love for them to run K's. Wait a second, Fayetteville gets beaten for running them and judges despise them. We tried to get them run last year, it failed miserably. Especially with Carter. Lance and I picked up two ballots in NLR finals last year and lost his because, I quote, "I don't like Kritiks."

It doesn't matter that he didn't discuss the impact of topicality. The implication is that the aff didn't answer it and therefore accepted the 1NC impact of the Topicality, that they are not topical.

On the standards debate. There should be detailed debate over whether we gain education by talking about this subject, whether the case is a fair assesment of the topic and fair research burden for the negative, and whether the definition represents a bright line between topical and nontopical cases. That is what that it means and there should be meaningful debate over those issues.

Your last statement is full of win.

Edited by wcdd7

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Rereading that was painful. I should probably get some sleep before my final tomorrow. Good luck understanding it in its entirety.

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Oh snap... I'm back.

 

We've spent the last two months not going to tournaments at all or anything, just working our asses off.

 

We're going for our TOC bids this semester. :)

 

As far as what we'll be doing in Arkansas: Expect 1 off 1nc's, expect K's, expect multiple condo advocacies, and expect a lot of theory. I don't care what the judges think about/do to us, we're going to do our part to help change the circuit.

Edited by Bkennedy

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Oh snap... I'm back.

 

We've spent the last two months not going to tournaments at all or anything, just working our asses off.

 

We're going for our TOC bids this semester. :)

 

As far as what we'll be doing in Arkansas: Expect 1 off 1nc's, expect K's, expect multiple condo advocacies, and expect a lot of theory. I don't care what the judges think about/do to us, we're going to do our part to help change the circuit.

 

I was wondering where you guys had been. I'll see you at Cabbot?

 

For some reason, I doubt 1 offs and theory will change the circuit... But whatever, it will make debater debating you more enjoyable :)

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Like, actual TOC bids? What tourneys are you looking at?

I wish they were. $20 on State.

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Like, actual TOC bids? What tourneys are you looking at?

 

Yes, actual TOC haha. People call the AR state tournament TOC? hah. Who works for two months to qual for Arkansas state?

 

We're not 100% sure on tournament choice yet. We were supposed to go to UT but plans got messed up.

Edited by Bkennedy

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I was wondering where you guys had been. I'll see you at Cabbot?

 

For some reason, I doubt 1 offs and theory will change the circuit... But whatever, it will make debater debating you more enjoyable :)

 

Yeah you'll see us at Cabbot, but that'll be our last in-state. We may go to state.... idk we're already qualified but is it honestly worth it? I just can't handle debating here much longer, I have a lot less patience than you guys... If I lose one more round because a judge doesn't know what Condo is, I run a K, or anything of the sort I'm going to explode.

 

I wish they were. $20 on State.

I'm not sure if I should be offended lol.

Edited by Bkennedy

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Yes, actual TOC haha. People call the AR state tournament TOC? hah. Who works for two months to qual for Arkansas state?

 

We're not 100% sure on tournament choice yet. We were supposed to go to UT but plans got messed up.

 

What school do you go to?

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What school do you go to?

 

Greenwood, please don't judge us based on the horrible quality here... I've learned from mainly my uncle (who broke at NDT and won CEDA nationals) and a few friends I have from schools that have done exceptionally well recently.

 

We have both spent MONTHS working our asses off learning every possible nuance we can, not that it'll be helpful in state. But who cares.

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Oh snap... I'm back.

 

We've spent the last two months not going to tournaments at all or anything, just working our asses off.

 

We're going for our TOC bids this semester. :)

 

As far as what we'll be doing in Arkansas: Expect 1 off 1nc's, expect K's, expect multiple condo advocacies, and expect a lot of theory. I don't care what the judges think about/do to us, we're going to do our part to help change the circuit.

 

I'm sorry guys, after watching Central try this for four years and having personal experience with the effort to change debate, I do not think that this will work for two reasons.

1. Going against the judges re entrenches their efforts against you and lets Fayetteville win over and over again. This simply brings back the pretty slow talking again because it "works"

2. If you force this down their throats then they simply work harder to bring it back to their style of debate.

My solution - get the judges to know you and like you. And then try to change the situation. That is the only way to make it work. We got a little bit of traction last year because, this will sound arrogant, but its more or less true, the judges loved Lance, Matt and me, and we won over and over again on K's and CP's because they liked us. The only way to make the change is to show the Fayetteville teams that you can win on those issues. Then you can change the status quo.

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Greenwood, please don't judge us based on the horrible quality here... I've learned from mainly my uncle (who broke at NDT and won CEDA nationals) and a few friends I have from schools that have done exceptionally well recently.

 

We have both spent MONTHS working our asses off learning every possible nuance we can, not that it'll be helpful in state. But who cares.

 

Who's your uncle? And I don't judge. I was impressed by your knowledge in previous posts. You do know something of the real style of debate.

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We're going for our TOC bids this semester. :)

 

Seems late in the season to begin, but erm... good luck. :wavey:

 

Will you be changing affs every week out of state as well?

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Expect 1 off 1nc's, expect K's, expect multiple condo advocacies, and expect a lot of theory. I don't care what the judges think about/do to us, we're going to do our part to help change the circuit.

 

Are you gonna also rant about how you couldn't predict 50 state fiat?

 

I hope your uncle is a miracle worker?

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Who's your uncle? And I don't judge. I was impressed by your knowledge in previous posts. You do know something of the real style of debate.

 

Jason Kennedy, and yes I like to think I know at least "something." haha.

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Are you gonna also rant about how you couldn't predict 50 state fiat?

 

I've never claimed it was unpredictable? Just not real world... And who are you? I'm assuming someone I beat on 50 states theory... Sorry bud.

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Seems late in the season to begin, but erm... good luck. :wavey:

 

Will you be changing affs every week out of state as well?

 

Thanks, and no we won't lol. In state is experimenting.

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Ya, judges, on that bull. sounds familiar?

 

have you gone to an out-of-state tourney?

 

No, it doesn't sound familiar at all. And not this year, but I know what it's like lol.

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but I know what it's like lol.

 

So it's like, where they change their aff as they're standing up to give the 1AC, right?

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So it's like, where they change their aff as they're standing up to give the 1AC, right?

 

Double post fail.

Edited by Bkennedy

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So it's like, where they change their aff as they're standing up to give the 1AC, right?

 

Because our novices legitimately had our heg advantage... :s

 

It's not like it mattered in that round anyways... Not our fault you answered 5 mins of condo bad in the 1ar with 30 seconds of condo good in the 2n...

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"On case, I'm not going for it, now for condo bad...!"

 

That's essentially how it went down. We just won that the time skew from the condo advocacies were substantial enough not even warrant enough time to go to them. This wasn't because I legitimately believe conditionality is bad, I run 4-5 counterplans as the neg myself. It was honestly our fault completely, we had debated very poorly up until that point and it was our last chance of winning. We were definitely out-classed that round until the end. Even the judge said it was the best strategy we had available in the 1AR (He was a qualified judge, can't remember his name but he knew theory and K's and everything thankfully)

 

It's a bit balls to the wall to do, but it worked out for us as it was a voting issue.

Edited by Bkennedy

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That's essentially how it went down. We just won that the time skew from the condo advocacies were substantial enough not even warrant enough time to go to them. This wasn't because I legitimately believe conditionality is bad, I run 4-5 counterplans as the neg myself. It was honestly our fault completely, we had debated very poorly up until that point and it was our last chance of winning. We were definitely out-classed that round until the end. Even the judge said it was the best strategy we had available in the 1AR (He was a qualified judge, can't remember his name but he knew theory and K's and everything thankfully)

 

It's a bit balls to the wall to do, but it worked out for us as it was a voting issue.

That's completely legit. I have had teams go for it and win over me going for it because they intersperse 10000000000000 different voters throughout it and then when you drop one that is what they spend 6 mins of the 2AR on. Of course, you kinda screw yourself going for Condo bad, because most judges will give it to the other team if they do half a decent job answering it.

 

And who the hell is this guy with the 50 states fiat? Anybody? We need the ability to block idiots.

Edited by wcdd7

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