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Pat Robertson, fundraising letter, 1992

"The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians."

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Sweetie... economic stability, stable homes, traditions, community, and organization don't mean shit to women who have no rights. Do you really think that when women are denied jobs based on their sex, they smile and say, "Oh well, at least I'm helping to keep the economy stable!" And have you ever stopped to think about why the movement happened in the first place? Maybe it was because... women were unhappy being dominated and controlled?

 

there is always going to be inequality in this world. Whether it's women and men or straight and queer, it's always going to be here. I think you're the one trying to live in your perfect world, sweetie. It's just one battle after another in terms of equality. It's pretty cute that you think equality really exists. Take a look at this, hun: http://www.cross-x.com/vb/showthread.php?t=985818

 

Please go tell that to the women who were raped because this male-dominated society condoned it... and ask them if they had access to abortion facilities. (P.S. The answer is no. Roe vs. Wade wasn't decided until 1973.) Oh, and then ask them if they felt they had control over their bodies.

 

So you're really trying to tell me that

a) women and men are equal now and

B) that women aren't raped now?

c) I'm not saying we have to go back in time and take away the respect women have gotten, I'm just saying we should play our part. Believe it or not, a structured society isn't such a bad thing.

 

Sounds a lot more like a personal battle... one that a huge portion of girls are fighting. You're not the only one. And in fact, some haven't even spoken to their fathers in years because their parents were divorced when they were young. And yes, they too had to get jobs when they were 13 because their mothers wouldn't pay for anything outside of food and the essential clothing. And they live off of microwaveable dinners because the mother works two jobs. ...and that's not even the worst of the stories. Yes, believe it or not, some girls have it a lot worse than you. Yet, these girls still know that they'd rather live that life than be dominated because they have options and aren't limited to the confines of the kitchen and bedroom.

 

I think you're really just buying into this idea that private domestic experience is the long standing inequality of women. The fact of the matter is, someone has to raise the kids and take care of the house. That's really just my point in that long rant. Women should have a career or a family that's just how it should be. I'm not saying we shouldn't have a career before they have a family but once you make that decision I think it should be given the time it deserves; if not for societies sake, for the future.

 

The point is that in an equal society, there are options. Yes, you can choose to live the "ideal" life that you describe. But, you don't force every other woman in the world to do the same. Because trust me, they don't all think the same way as you.

 

How is this an "ideal" life? This is a structure that solves.

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Ok, don't hate me for saying this, I'm just answering the guy's question...

 

One of my friends is a real a--hole who buys into this stuff VERY seriously, and he's been trying to get me to read a book by some guy named "Dick Masterson." His book is "Men Are Better Than Women," and he has been labeled THE most chauvinistic man alive.

I haven't read it, but if you're really serious about running "Men > Women" then Dick Masterson is your author.

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#1

there is always going to be inequality in this world. Whether it's women and men or straight and queer, it's always going to be here. I think you're the one trying to live in your perfect world, sweetie. It's just one battle after another in terms of equality. It's pretty cute that you think equality really exists. Take a look at this, hun: http://www.cross-x.com/vb/showthread.php?t=985818

 

No, you are entirely correct. True equality does not exist right now - I completely agree. But, I also believe that we are in a much better state than we used to be. No, we haven't changed everyone's mindset that women have the potential to be just as equal as men. (You're a prime example of that.) And no, we haven't changed everyone's mindset that LGBT's are people too. And no, we haven't changed everyone's mindset that Blacks are more than just slaves. But, at least we've made progress. We no longer flat-out deny women the right to vote. LGBT's have been gaining more and more support from society. Women have access to safe abortions instead of having to shove bicycle wheel spokes up their vaginas. Blacks are no longer forced to sit at the back of the bus. And that you cannot deny. We have made progress - and we have made that progress because we keep hope alive that someday, we can achieve a society of equality. When we lose that hope, we give up. And then, we just... lose.

 

There was this pretty cool guy. His name was, like, Martin Luther King, Jr. or something... and he gave this speech about having some sort of dream for, like, equality. And, like, I hear he's actually pretty smart and people like him and agree with him and stuff...

 

Oh, and "hun," you might want to go reread the responses to that article. Like, for instance, my responses? And then compare them to your responses? Oh, and then compare them to Mordacil's responses. I think you'll find that we are all arguing on the same side... one that advocates equality.

Doesn't mean we can't try to make things apply equally, and do our best to ensure that civil liberties are protected.
So we should never hope and work for equality across all spectra? That's pretty utopian to me, but it's still a worthy cause to fight for.

 

 

#2

So you're really trying to tell me that

a) women and men are equal now and

B) that women aren't raped now?

c) I'm not saying we have to go back in time and take away the respect women have gotten, I'm just saying we should play our part. Believe it or not, a structured society isn't such a bad thing.

 

A.) I just answered that above.

B.) Cross-apply my above answer: things are at least better now.

C.) You are contradicting yourself. "Let's force women into the role of the meek, subservient housewife who only lives to fulfill the demands of the man. Oh, but we'll make sure that they feel respected too."

 

 

#3

I think you're really just buying into this idea that private domestic experience is the long standing inequality of women. The fact of the matter is, someone has to raise the kids and take care of the house. That's really just my point in that long rant. Women should have a career or a family that's just how it should be. I'm not saying we shouldn't have a career before they have a family but once you make that decision I think it should be given the time it deserves; if not for societies sake, for the future.

 

A.) No, I was just trying to shed some light on your little narrative.

B.) Why does someone have to raise the kids and take care of the house? Why? And why does it have to be the female? Why can't that role be filled by either/any sex?

C.) Why can't women have both? I've seen plenty of single-mothers handle a job and still find a way to raise the children and spend time with them and be the ideal mother/housewife/female figure that you advocate.

D.) Your advocation does not indicate that women can decide to devote their lives to a career. You want the man to be dominating and the women to stay at home with the children. So, you're contradicting yourself again:

I'm cutting a K essentially saying men are the dominant sex and rightly so. The alt basically says that women should be controlled by men like they used to be and they should stay in the kitchen.

And how are women going to have a career if they don't have the opportunity because the man has already taken this role? And even if they do find a way to get hired in your little perfect world, for how long can they have a career? And can they get promoted? Or are those positions only reserved for the man? And what if the men want to stay home with the children? What if the men don't want to dominate?

E.) YOUR world is just as utopian. "Women should have a career or a family that's just how it should be." Sorry "sweetie," but that's not any more real world than my ideal of complete equality.

 

 

#4

How is this an "ideal" life?

 

...that is the question I have been asking you this entire time. How in the world is a male-dominated society an "ideal" life?

 

 

#5

This is a structure that solves.

 

Nope. This is a structure that fails. And that, my dear, is empirically proven. :)

Edited by msschristinex

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this sounds like the worst k ever

 

only a real sexist pig dbag would run it

 

Eh, the same can be said about Fem. I don't think this is a good K, but things like "patriarchy key to heg" is fine for answering Fem.

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Eh, the same can be said about Fem. I don't think this is a good K, but things like "patriarchy key to heg" is fine for answering Fem.

 

Mmm... I disagree. Fem (as I understand it) advocates equality. So, it'd tip the balance to a equal position. An answer like "patriarchy is key to heg" tips that balance back in favor of one sex (male) over the other (female). And whenever the scale is tipped one way or another, the disappearance of civil liberties of the unfavored sex is justified.

 

...if Fem was advocating that women take over the world and become the dominating sex, though, then I'd agree with your answer. (To tip the scale back to "equal" position.)

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Mmm... I disagree. Fem (as I understand it) advocates equality. So, it'd tip the balance to a equal position. An answer like "patriarchy is key to heg" tips that balance back in favor of one sex (male) over the other (female). And whenever the scale is tipped one way or another, the disappearance of civil liberties of the unfavored sex is justified.

 

...if Fem was advocating that women take over the world and become the dominating sex, though, then I'd agree with your answer. (To tip the scale back to "equal" position.)

 

Fem actually isn't advocating for equality. It may be advocating for equality in terms of men and women or at least to put women more on the spectrum but most fem authors completely exclude transexuals, questioning, gender fucking, etc. You have to keep in mind, the only equality in the world that matters isn't an equality btwn men and women.

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#1

 

 

No, you are entirely correct. True equality does not exist right now - I completely agree. But, I also believe that we are in a much better state than we used to be. No, we haven't changed everyone's mindset that women have the potential to be just as equal as men. (You're a prime example of that.) And no, we haven't changed everyone's mindset that LGBT's are people too. And no, we haven't changed everyone's mindset that Blacks are more than just slaves. But, at least we've made progress. We no longer flat-out deny women the right to vote. LGBT's have been gaining more and more support from society. Women have access to safe abortions instead of having to shove bicycle wheel spokes up their vaginas. Blacks are no longer forced to sit at the back of the bus. And that you cannot deny. We have made progress - and we have made that progress because we keep hope alive that someday, we can achieve a society of equality. When we lose that hope, we give up. And then, we just... lose.

 

There was this pretty cool guy. His name was, like, Martin Luther King, Jr. or something... and he gave this speech about having some sort of dream for, like, equality. And, like, I hear he's actually pretty smart and people like him and agree with him and stuff...

 

Oh, and "hun," you might want to go reread the responses to that article. Like, for instance, my responses? And then compare them to your responses? Oh, and then compare them to Mordacil's responses. I think you'll find that we are all arguing on the same side... one that advocates equality.

 

 

 

#2

 

 

A.) I just answered that above.

B.) Cross-apply my above answer: things are at least better now.

C.) You are contradicting yourself. "Let's force women into the role of the meek, subservient housewife who only lives to fulfill the demands of the man. Oh, but we'll make sure that they feel respected too."

 

 

#3

 

 

A.) No, I was just trying to shed some light on your little narrative.

B.) Why does someone have to raise the kids and take care of the house? Why? And why does it have to be the female? Why can't that role be filled by either/any sex?

C.) Why can't women have both? I've seen plenty of single-mothers handle a job and still find a way to raise the children and spend time with them and be the ideal mother/housewife/female figure that you advocate.

D.) Your advocation does not indicate that women can decide to devote their lives to a career. You want the man to be dominating and the women to stay at home with the children. So, you're contradicting yourself again:

 

And how are women going to have a career if they don't have the opportunity because the man has already taken this role? And even if they do find a way to get hired in your little perfect world, for how long can they have a career? And can they get promoted? Or are those positions only reserved for the man? And what if the men want to stay home with the children? What if the men don't want to dominate?

E.) YOUR world is just as utopian. "Women should have a career or a family that's just how it should be." Sorry "sweetie," but that's not any more real world than my ideal of complete equality.

 

 

#4

 

 

...that is the question I have been asking you this entire time. How in the world is a male-dominated society an "ideal" life?

 

 

#5

 

 

Nope. This is a structure that fails. And that, my dear, is empirically proven. :)

 

Okay, so I'm going to wrap this up cuz it's just lots of the same shit back and forth. This is a k I'm writing... I'm not saying I actually think this is how things should be. It's a simplification of a world I think at one point had it's good points (but bad too like you mention.) To put myself back in good light, I'd suggest reading back over my posts on the transgender debate. In terms of real advocacy... that's more where I stand.

 

I don't think this k will turn out to be quite as offensive as you are taking it. I don't really understand why you aren't freaking out about the fem k as much as you are about my masculinity k... I mean, it's essentially just the opposite. Plus, if you look to my above response, the fem k is only advocating for an equality of men and women, not everyone in the us. That's just as flawed as my k except I'm not trying to say there is achievable equality... I'm not putting on this facade of success (keep in mind I read the fem k frequently) and the alt of this k doesn't propose completely reverting back to a world of oppression or acceptable violence, it's just an alternative that solves.

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this sounds like the worst k ever

 

only a real sexist pig dbag would run it

 

can't you say the same about the fem k?

I don't see why not...

 

I'm reading this book right now, "Self made man" by norah vincent. She lives her life as a man for one year (everyone around her thinks she is) dates women, etc. she says she wouldn't be a man for anything.

 

I think what I'm really trying to bring to light with this kritik is this idea that feminism is so great but masculinity is something to be rejected. Why is that? Why has our culture flipped on this one and made it so politically incorrect to suggest that women have a maternal instinct for a reason? I guess I'm just trying to get ya'll to think about that...

As the lines btwn male and female are becoming more and more blurred with transexuals, pansexuals, z's, etc. and the ability to "correct gender" errors, why is it that we still only look at this as a battle btwn male and female?

 

Just food for thought.

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Okay, so I'm going to wrap this up cuz it's just lots of the same shit back and forth. This is a k I'm writing... I'm not saying I actually think this is how things should be. It's a simplification of a world I think at one point had it's good points (but bad too like you mention.) To put myself back in good light, I'd suggest reading back over my posts on the transgender debate. In terms of real advocacy... that's more where I stand.

 

I don't think this k will turn out to be quite as offensive as you are taking it. I don't really understand why you aren't freaking out about the fem k as much as you are about my masculinity k... I mean, it's essentially just the opposite. Plus, if you look to my above response, the fem k is only advocating for an equality of men and women, not everyone in the us. That's just as flawed as my k except I'm not trying to say there is achievable equality... I'm not putting on this facade of success (keep in mind I read the fem k frequently) and the alt of this k doesn't propose completely reverting back to a world of oppression or acceptable violence, it's just an alternative that solves.

 

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

 

haha. well thanks? I guess you don't really speak english... or think in english than, cuz that seemed pretty coherent to me... but maybe I'm just on crack? yeah, probably.

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I concur.

 

haha. I thought you would.

 

Thanks for the input, but maybe next time you could actually throw in your opinion or something besides just trying to insult me? I dunno, maybe you don't actually have any...

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i am man, therefore, we all know where i stand on this issue. that being said i got bored once i realized mcx's posts were actually serious [though i'm sure i would have been moderately impressed if i read them since as we all know mcx has quickly developed into one of my favorite posters] and have decided to donate material to the cause.

 

first, CARTMAN QUOTES!

"i just don't trust anything that bleeds for five days and doesn't die"

"i would never let a woman kick my ass. if she tried, i'd be like HEY! you get your bitch ass back in the kitchen and make me some pie!"

"who was in charge of the feminist movement of the 1960's?"

-"a bunch of fat old skanks on their periods"

-"right. but who was the fattest, oldest skank on her period?"

"why does this happen every month? it seems like right about the same time every month kyle's mom gets a hair up her ass and i get screwed by it"

"if some sissy chick tried to kick my ass i would be like hey missy, go knit me a sweater before i slap you in the face!"

 

 

yeah thats all im thinkin off atm, i may update with more later.

 

colbert may have good material here too. not positive.

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Fem actually isn't advocating for equality. It may be advocating for equality in terms of men and women or at least to put women more on the spectrum but most fem authors completely exclude transexuals, questioning, gender fucking, etc. You have to keep in mind, the only equality in the world that matters isn't an equality btwn men and women.

 

Completely irrelevant, but I'll answer it anyway. Just because the feminist authors didn't talk about transsexuals doesn't mean they don't see them as having the potential to be equal. Did they talk about gays, lesbians, and bisexuals? Did they talk about Blacks? Did they talk about purple monkeys? No. Because none of that is in the spectrum of the issue of males dominating females.

 

Okay, so I'm going to wrap this up cuz it's just lots of the same shit back and forth. This is a k I'm writing... I'm not saying I actually think this is how things should be. It's a simplification of a world I think at one point had it's good points (but bad too like you mention.)

 

I guess that's just where you and I differ. I advocate and fight for what I believe in during debate rounds, not shit that I think will help me win.

 

To put myself back in good light, I'd suggest reading back over my posts on the transgender debate.

 

...I think it's probably a little too late for that.

 

I don't think this k will turn out to be quite as offensive as you are taking it.

 

"I'm cutting a K essentially saying men are the dominant sex and rightly so. The alt basically says that women should be controlled by men like they used to be and they should stay in the kitchen."

...no, you know what? You're absolutely right. That's not offensive at all.

 

I don't really understand why you aren't freaking out about the fem k as much as you are about my masculinity k... I mean, it's essentially just the opposite.

 

Mmm... nope. Not the opposite. Cross-apply my previous post. "Fem (as I understand it) advocates equality. So, it'd tip the balance to a equal position. An answer like "patriarchy is key to heg" or a K like males should dominate females tips that balance back in favor of one sex (male) over the other (female). And whenever the scale is tipped one way or another, the disappearance of civil liberties of the unfavored sex is justified.

 

...if Fem was advocating that women take over the world and become the dominating sex, though, then I'd agree with your answer. (To tip the scale back to "equal" position.)"

 

Plus, if you look to my above response, the fem k is only advocating for an equality of men and women, not everyone in the us.

 

Cross-apply my response. (Can be found above.)

 

I'm not trying to say there is achievable equality... I'm not putting on this facade of success

 

No, you're completely giving up hope that there is a chance for equality. (The same hope that has brought us so far.) And... you're still no more real world than I am.

 

the alt of this k doesn't propose completely reverting back to a world of oppression or acceptable violence, it's just an alternative that solves.

 

That was not a coherent response at all. And... "The alt basically says that women should be controlled by men like they used to be and they should stay in the kitchen." Sounds pretty fucking oppressive to me.

 

 

 

But, anyway, I'm done arguing this. It was interesting for a little while, but now I'm getting bored. So, good luck.

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Mmm... I disagree. Fem (as I understand it) advocates equality. So, it'd tip the balance to a equal position. An answer like "patriarchy is key to heg" tips that balance back in favor of one sex (male) over the other (female). And whenever the scale is tipped one way or another, the disappearance of civil liberties of the unfavored sex is justified.

 

...if Fem was advocating that women take over the world and become the dominating sex, though, then I'd agree with your answer. (To tip the scale back to "equal" position.)

 

Have you ever read a Tickner or Reardon card? They are hardcore anti-Masculinity, not just patriarchy. They aren't looking for "equality" but for a changeover to Femininity (read: the gender, not the sex; men and countries can be feminine, but not female).

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>>he's been trying to get me to read a book by some guy named "Dick Masterson.

>>some guy named "Dick Masterson"

>>"Dick Masterson"

 

I'm pretty sure that any book by an author supposedly named "Dick Masterson" is a total joke... you might want to clue your friend into that.

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Have you ever read a Tickner or Reardon card? They are hardcore anti-Masculinity, not just patriarchy. They aren't looking for "equality" but for a changeover to Femininity (read: the gender, not the sex; men and countries can be feminine, but not female).

 

Yes because having read two cards qualifies you to comment on the goals of a whole intellectual movement :rolleyes:

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Ah. Well like I said, what I say/said is only to the extent of my knowledge. ...and that extent is hitting it in a couple of rounds and my new partner having ran it last year. (And she's never really sat down and explained it out to me... so I only have bits and pieces.) Haha. So I'm not too terribly familiar with it. :rolleyes: But, I'll definitely go check up on that. Thanks, guys. :)

Edited by msschristinex

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Yes because having read two cards qualifies you to comment on the goals of a whole intellectual movement :rolleyes:

 

It's actually not just two cards. Both of these authors make up much of what is read in the fem k...

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