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RoyersMWD

Nebraska 08-09

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Yea. Like I said i don't think that he's a bad judge, just that his decision was questionable (based on his body language) and that it seemed that the other judge was subjective in her decision.

I'm pretty sure that he coaches for HP and they're pretty damn good.

Also, I wasn't asking that to be le douche, but i was wondering if you had some shadyass double account idk i dont understand computers or whatever.

 

I appreciate the props and i can commiserate with your bubble round woes. I have not doubt that you too will bid and it's be cool if we hit eachother this year.

 

Much luck!

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Trevor is correct here, you had an extremely legit judging panel. Jon, Nat, and Megan are all very good judges. What people got out of that round from you guys was that you're assholes who post round people and don't make good arguments in the round, but seem to make them when you're bitching after the round. I feel as if I can speak for people, because after that round I heard more than two dozen people discussing what assholes you guys were, and how it'd be nice if you'd remember to make arguments during the debate, instead of only after it.

 

You probably should refrain though from acting like you were screwed and bitching about it. It's one thing to run something unconventional and controversial and be really nice and charming people, but you're clearly digging yourself into a hole. A negative reputation wont help the fact that you guys are already fighting an uphill battle in front of most midwest judges. It's just going to legitimize voting you down in rounds where you perhaps are even more ahead than in this one, especially for Minnesota judges.

 

I had a round that I thought I had clearly won as well at Valley, one against an opponent not nearly as good as Sheb North is. But I knew that it's just a messy complicated round early in the season, and it would have done 0 good to burn bridges in a community that I debate in for the whole year. And I could also respectfully see what I could have done better, and arguments that I needed to have been making slightly more clear in the round.

 

Look guy, i dont know who you are but i dont really care what you have to say because youre the one here acting like an asshole. There werent 2 dozen people watching the round so it looks like your hyperbole guts your credibility. Also, since when is post rounding considered the zphc? We didnt ask questions, our coach did, and it was about things said in the rfds when relating to the decision calculus no the line by line. So uh jog on.

 

It also seems that the only way we can gain acceptance in your mind is by playing kiss-ass. I dont think so, we encounter a gratuitous amount of douchebaggery because we run unconventional arguments and we fight fire with fire. I doubt the sheb. north team would characterize us that way and none of the judges did. We're not burning bridges cuz this was meant to be seen by our nebraska community. Ask Mike Steffen or Aneesh what they thought of us. As far as I know they both coach for youre school and they both judged us and didnt have anything to say about our being douchebags.

 

Also who the fuck are you ?

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Trevor is correct here, you had an extremely legit judging panel. Jon, Nat, and Megan are all very good judges. What people got out of that round from you guys was that you're assholes who post round people and don't make good arguments in the round, but seem to make them when you're bitching after the round. I feel as if I can speak for people, because after that round I heard more than two dozen people discussing what assholes you guys were, and how it'd be nice if you'd remember to make arguments during the debate, instead of only after it.

 

first of all, my email addy is dylan.sutton@gmail.com . i'm going to request, for the sake of those people involved in that debate round, that this conversation be taken to a more private forum (like via email)*. if you all wanna continue to discuss the various merits or disadvantages to our argument/vision for debate, fine. but let's stop talking about people.

 

secondly, were you in that round? because there weren't even "more than two dozen people" in the room to hear our conversation afterward, much less to tell you what "assholes" we were. if you're commenting on something stylistically that took place during the round (as opposed to our conversation afterward) i'm not going to apologize for the aggressiveness of my debaters. i don't think they act like assholes, and i've heard very few people say that they do think so and trust me, i've talked to way more than two dozen people about our debate rounds. what's more, it's patently absurd to say "you guys" in reference to the conversation that happened post round, since ian and david took absolutely no part in it. i said everything from our side of the table and as someone who's been around this activity almost 10 years now i don't think i said anything that isn't par for the course for a discussion after a high level debate round. if you were there and can cite something in particular that i said that you thought was offensive or cruel, i'd be happy to explain myself. i didn't use any foul language nor did i raise my voice. in fact i don't believe i even made an argument explicitly (which would be why what i said wasn't, according to you, part of the round). like i said once already, i asked some questions about what the judges had said in the reasons for decision. beyond that, i may have asked a couple of questions about how we might deal with this situation in the future in front of these judges. honestly, i only asked chen two questions. i don't really understand how the conversation the three of us had after the round has been morphed into me being angry or "bitching". again i ask, what did i say that was taken in that tone?

 

*if anyone who was actually in the room, particularly megan or jon, felt i was "bitching" please contact me directly. i don't want you to continue to have any misunderstanding about what my intentions were after that round.

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Look guy, i dont know who you are but i dont really care what you have to say because youre the one here acting like an asshole. There werent 2 dozen people watching the round so it looks like your hyperbole guts your credibility. Also, since when is post rounding considered the zphc? We didnt ask questions, our coach did, and it was about things said in the rfds when relating to the decision calculus no the line by line. So uh jog on.

 

It also seems that the only way we can gain acceptance in your mind is by playing kiss-ass. I dont think so, we encounter a gratuitous amount of douchebaggery because we run unconventional arguments and we fight fire with fire. I doubt the sheb. north team would characterize us that way and none of the judges did. We're not burning bridges cuz this was meant to be seen by our nebraska community. Ask Mike Steffen or Aneesh what they thought of us. As far as I know they both coach for youre school and they both judged us and didnt have anything to say about our being douchebags.

 

Also who the fuck are you ?

 

A. I went to camp with you. I go to Wayzata. Anything else you need to know deeply about my life?

 

B. Not Hyperbole. While admittedly not everyone (In fact, probably less than 50 percent) of the people that were discussing you guys had seen the round, it's merely the perception you gave them, and the way that word spreads. Admittedly, most of them were Minnesotans, so you might just not care. But these people will judge you at some point.

 

C. Don't play kissass. I love weird arguments that aren't conventional. I have a hard time finding a partner that's even willing to run 1/10th of the shit I want to try. I'm just saying, you gave off the perception to a group of people that you were not friendly people. Again, it's just that you're going to have an uphill fight (duh), and if you're making a group of people that are judging you mad, it's not going to help you win rounds. That's all.

 

Honestly, I don't care. My coaches don't want me posting stuff like this, so I'll leave it at that. Feel free to PM me if you're really interested in stuff I have to say (I'll put 5 dollars on you aren't).

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Not Hyperbole. While admittedly not everyone (In fact, probably less than 50 percent) of the people that were discussing you guys had seen the round, it's merely the perception you gave them, and the way that word spreads. Admittedly, most of them were Minnesotans, so you might just not care. But these people will judge you at some point

 

look this is ridiculous. this has gotten way out of hand. at this point i'm trying to talk reason to phantoms. i keep telling you all how this post round went down and am getting told in response that over 24...wait, less than 12, people had a different perception and then proceeded to tell people that I was an "asshole" who was "bitching". as someone who really was there if anything that has happened since then is insulting, unjustified, or overly aggressive i'd say it's whoever is making those sorts of characterizations without talking to me about how i was intending what i was asking first. if these are people who are judges, i genuinely want them to contact me so i can figure out what it is that got interpreted that way and assure them i wasn't being mean (the suggestion that millard south doesn't care about minnesota or people who live there is nothing but baseless slander and i expect you to retract it immediately). if they're not, then perhaps they should gain some perspective on how adults hold serious conversations before they go saying defamatory things to their colleagues. put simply, you're talking about rumors started by a few people and i wanna get to the bottom of them instead of mucking around in your second hand perceptions. anyone who didn't watch the round and is reading this should take my frustration with this conversation as an indication of my certainty that these perceptions are unwarranted and that my conduct was not, in fact, even remotely uncalled for and that we understand and agree that making people mad is not the goal - which is exactly why i'm fighting this perception so hard.

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I dont want to continue the fight, but i do want to declare that we (millard south) have an immense amount of respect for minnesota debate. We consider ourselves to be good friends with a number of teams and coaches and have lost to HP and Sibley, both of which were incredibly talented teams. Like i said, i wasnt trying to complain about the judging, but rather to explain to our community (nebraska) why we dropped, the fact that there was controversy, confusion, and perhaps changed decisions as a result of civil questioning.

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Boys (Dylan and Ian), we are done here. Lets squash this deal. We have nothing but love for the Minnesota debate community. We talked with many of you about the round at the tournament. Perhaps we vented in too public of a way and if feelings were hurt we are sorry. I honestly hope that there are no hard feelings. There was obviously a lot of tension around this round and a lot of people who care about what went down. I don't think this is a bad thing. No one ever said that Chen was a bad judge, simply that we felt he made a borderline decision in one specific round. This happens to the best of us. God knows it has happened to me. His reaction (like mine has been in these cases) seemed to indicate some kind of dismay. I honestly don't know.

 

Otherwise, I don't think that Dylan was an asshole and I encourage David and Ian to be aggressive but civil. I don't think our tactics can be called into question given some of the heated debating I see every weekend.

 

Finally, I will say that the last thing that we want is to burn bridges. Our argument stems from the fact that we are a small school with a small budget and rely on good people who are underpaid (Dylan) to come and be a credit to the community. We find it rather hard to keep up with teams like Wayzata in other ways. We love the community and want it to be a better more open place. If we have offended we simply beg forgiveness...this will be the last you hear from millard south on this issue.

Thanks,

Dana

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Were not totally sure but kck seems promising due to mutual preference. Caucus always is an option due to the virtual guarantee of good judging.... its just the distance

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MS or Westside- do you think i could catch a ride? I'm planning on going to judge for the tournament unless a NE school needs me.

I'm small and don't use a lot of space...does that help? ha.

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Lisa,

I am not totally sure how we are getting there yet, but like you said you are a small person and a MS homie so you are welcome to roll with our crew. The only question you might want to consider is your return trip. We plan on being there LATE.

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I'm planning on being at KCKCC if anyone wants to hire me as a judge. I'm more than willing to help out whoever hires me with coaching and/or card-cutting as well. Let me know. Looking forward to reconnecting with the Nebraska community for the weekend.

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oh yes of course. The sweetest thing ever would be to have a Sarah Palin bobble-head.

 

You're darn right! Just ask soccer moms, they'll tell you.

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Energy producing state. When I was governor. Tax cuts. I'm just going to talk and not really answer your question. Straight talk to the American people. Hockey mom. My family...

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Was anyone else incredibly offended when she called herself "middle class"? I about threw up.

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Well, of course middle class = between $20,000 to $5,000,000 annually. The argument that the middle class is shrinking really just depends where you draw the lines.

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Was anyone else incredibly offended when she called herself "middle class"? I about threw up.

I just kept thinking "8 houses, 13 cards, 8 houses, 13 cars..."

 

(Which, yes, is McCain, not Palin, but still.)

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Tina Fey...er Sarah Palin is coming to Omaha today to stump for McCain. I could not be more excited by this; not because I give a shit about the GOP ticket, but if they are sending the VP candidate into Omaha of all fucking places to try and get votes that means the Democrats are doing fantastic in the area and the GOP is scared of losing the district. GO-bama!

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