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topspeaker70

McCain's Latest Low

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According to CNN (and assuming the veracity of any news report these days is something of an act of faith), Senator McCain is now implying that Senator Obama is "a socialist."

 

Whatever happened to "a respectful campaign" and/or "taking the high road?" And we haven't even gotten to the Conventions yet.

 

It looks to me that this Arizona Senator is willing to drive the "Straight Talk Express" through any gutter and/or sewer on the road to being Bush's successor... a mantle for which he seems to be admirably suited.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I miss Barry Goldwater.

(Hell, I'm starting to miss Nixon and McCarthy.)

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Well, that's not at all what he said. Also, Obama sort of is a socialist.

 

In an interview with the Kansas City Star, John McCain points out that Barack Obama was labeled as having the "most extreme" record in the Senate. "Extreme? You really think hes an extremist? I mean, he's clearly a liberal," interviewer Dave Helling asks.

"That's his voting record," McCain responds. "All I said was his voting record, and that is more to the left than the announced Socialist in the United States Senate, Bernie Sanders of Vermont."

"Do you think hes a socialist, Barack Obama?" Helling asks.

McCain responds with a with a shrug, "I don't know."

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/18/mccain-obama-socialist-i_n_113524.html

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Saying "I don't know" when asked "Do you think he's a socialist" is not the same thing as saying "Yes..he's a screaming, liberal, radical..." H.

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duane,

come on now. its politics. mccain is smart enough not to bluntly state "obama is a socialist" but its time for you to face reality - if he says "obama is more to the left than socialists" in reference to obama having an extremist voting record, that is a comparative statement that indicates that obama is at minimum a socialist, and arguably worse.

 

since you are so blind to the linguistic manuevering of politics, i shall assume and proudly proclaim that you ought to believe that bill clinton didnt perjure himself either. it all depends on what the definition of is is.

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So, here's the link and the CNN story.

 

McCain did not say directly or by implication that Obama was a socialist. When asked directly if he thought Obama was a socialist, McCain responded "I don't know."

 

McCain, factually, stated that Obama's voting record was to the left of the Senate's only self described Socialist.

 

I would hope we can agree that discussing one's voting record is acceptable during the political season.

 

 

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

July 18, 2008

McCain: 'I don’t know' if Obama is socialist

Posted: 10:40 AM ET

 

From CNN Political Producer Peter Hamby

 

 

McCain said Obama's Senate record was more liberal than a self-described socialist's.

WARREN, Michigan (CNN) – John McCain on Thursday described Barack Obama’s Senate record as “more to the left” than Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont — an independent who caucuses with Democrats but has described himself as an “independent Democratic socialist.”

 

During his town hall meeting with voters in Kansas City yesterday, McCain said, “Senator Obama has the most extreme record of any member of the United States Senate.”

 

In an interview after the event, The Kansas City Star asked him to clarify the remark.

 

“His voting record … is more to the left than the announced socialist in the United States Senate, Bernie Sanders of Vermont,” McCain answered, according the paper.

 

Asked if he thought Obama was a socialist, McCain answered: “I don’t know. All I know is his voting record, and that’s what people usually judge their elected representatives by.”

 

Filed under: John McCain

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so?

I second that.

 

Socialism is a value neutral term used to describe ideology. It's not an ideology of hate or genocide. Granted, it has a negative connotation because of its long-term association with our Cold War enemies, but that's an issue of perception and not of the term's appropriateness.

 

If radical left wingers are overly sensitive about being labeled "socialist," that should tell you something. They've pulled this crap before. They like to frame the debate, and if their brand becomes tarnished (fairly or unfairly), they have no problem stealing someone else's and pulling a bait and switch.

 

From Wikipedia

 

The cause(s) of the shift in liberalism in the United States "between 1877 and 1937...from laissez-faire constitutionalism to New Deal statism, from classical liberalism to democratic social-welfarism" has been a subject of study among scholars...

 

Joseph Schumpeter stated, "As a supreme, if unintended compliment, the enemies of the system of private enterprise have thought it wise to appropriate its label," implying that modern liberals have "stolen" the word and given it a definition opposite its original meaning...

 

In the 1920s, the New York Times criticized "the expropriation of the time-honored word 'liberal'" and argued that "the radical red school of thought...hand back the word 'liberal' to its original owners."

 

Following from this New York Times criticism, they argue that leading Progressive writers used the word liberal as a "substitute for progressivism, which had become tarnished by its association with their fallen hero, Theodore Roosevelt". They also concur with F.A. Hayek view (in his essay "Why I Am Not a Conservative") that Franklin D. Roosevelt adopted the term to "ward off accusations of being left-wing" [with Roosevelt] declaring that liberalism was "plain English for a changed concept of the duty and responsibility of government toward economic life."

 

I dislike McCain on many levels, and won't be voting for him under any circumstances. But I am not troubled by this, except insofar as I'm dismayed that people would react with such condemnation.

 

Barack Obama supports socialized medicine. He supports a greater role for progressive income taxation, as favored by Marx. He supports any number of positions that could be characterized, fairly, as socialist or socialistic. Bernie Sanders is a proud, admitted socialist. If John McCain wants to make the argument that Obama is to the left of an elected socialist in the U.S. Senate, I don't find that to be "disrespectful" or "low."

 

Michael and I don't always agree ideologically, but we usually agree when it comes to principle. And we both miss Goldwater. :) We both wish he would have lived on to the ripe age of about 150 and never relinquished his seat to the "little prick" who now holds it. But I must disagree with him here, as I don't think this is a big deal.

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link?

 

 

Just go to today's www.cnn.com

 

It's one of the featured stories, characterized as, "McCain Says Obama May Be Socialist."

 

Play fair, now: How would the GOP - and "the liberal media" - react if the story were: "Obama Says McCain May Be Fascist"?

 

This is a Board that - I thought (at least until this morning) - was dedicated to the art and science of debate, regardless of ideology. GOP/Dem, Right/Left, whatever - chickenshit innuendo is chickenshit innuendo, and sleazeball politics is sleazeball politics.

 

As for "justification," anyone who thinks that McCain is merely discussing abstract political philosophy needs to have his/her head examined. Moreover, there might have been Communists in the State Department during the 1940's early-1950's, too (in fact, given the demographics and the ideology of the times, there probably were a few), but that hardly justified McCarthyism.

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Imagine if...

 

"Do you think he's a Muslim, Barack Obama?" Helling asks.

McCain responds with a with a shrug, "I don't know."

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i think obama is part-socialist. big friggin deal. "oooh. big bad socialist gonna get you?"

 

i dislike the people with blinders on who think that mccain didnt insinuate that obama is socialist and in a negative context as a means of scoring points with reactionary right wingers and moderates who would otherwise be bought by a new era of mccarthyism.

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LOL...Ankur..of course McCain probably thinks he's a socialist. Heck, if politics weren't politics I'm sure he would have said a lot more...I might not have a science degree, but I do get that...lol...besides, Ankur...the right wingers you are talking about aren't voting for Obama for lots of reason, socialism being the least of them...So, instead of scoring points, it's just reaffirming an already held belief...No big bad socialist will take my tax money from me...I thought we already established that..don't know about you man, but I need every dollar I can get.

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i think obama is part-socialist. big friggin deal. "oooh. big bad socialist gonna get you?"

 

i dislike the people with blinders on who think that mccain didnt insinuate that obama is socialist and in a negative context as a means of scoring points with reactionary right wingers and moderates who would otherwise be bought by a new era of mccarthyism.

 

 

Anybody who supports the Social Security system is "part-socialist." But that's not the point.

 

The point comes down to one word: "disingenuous." "Disingenuous" is inherently incompatible with "straight talk."

 

Or, to put it in old-fashioned Texas terms: McCain is just another bullshit politician - maybe no worse, but certainly no better - and he is running on the notion that he is "better."

 

So why doesn't the "liberal media" call him on this obvious contradiction to his basic campaign theme?

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Just go to today's www.cnn.com

Play fair, now: How would the GOP - and "the liberal media" - react if the story were: "Obama Says McCain May Be Fascist"?

 

Too bad we dont have an Un-American activities committee these days.. don't want that panamanian manchurian candidate in the white house...

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... don't want that panamanian manchurian candidate in the white house...

 

 

You said it - I didn't. But I wouldn't trust the Senator from Arizona with my remote control - much less command of the United States Armed forces. Honest to God, I'd prefer keeping Bush around for another four years - at least two-thirds of the American people have finally come to realize what he truly is.

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its not like socialism hasn't caused genocide before....

 

...oh, wait.

STFU

 

 

go kill some black babies.

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If I were a reporter my next question would be:

 

"So, using the basis of your claim with Obama's voting record as a standard for calling him a socialist, would it be safe to say that you are, in fact, almost 95 percent the same as Bush"?

Edited by Szaszypoo
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Too bad we dont have an Un-American activities committee these days...

 

i thought they just renamed that the DHS.

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i thought they just renamed that the DHS.

 

I think it should be changed to the Department of Fatherland Security. Let's call fascist pigs what they need to be called. The true patriot today is the one prepared to brazenly defy the federal government.

 

And don't go thinking Obama's fascist henchment will be so great. They might be kinder and gentler than Cheney's or McCain's, but they will still fuck you in the ass if you suggest that US military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan make civilian targets in the US fair game for our enemies. They will arrest you and throw you in a hole for saying such a thing. (government monitors, please note the hypothetical verbage in this paragraph...please don't lock me up)

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I think it should be changed to the Department of Fatherland Security. Let's call fascist pigs what they need to be called. The true patriot today is the one prepared to brazenly defy the federal government.

 

And don't go thinking Obama's fascist henchment will be so great. They might be kinder and gentler than Cheney's or McCain's, but they will still fuck you in the ass if you suggest that US military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan make civilian targets in the US fair game for our enemies. They will arrest you and throw you in a hole for saying such a thing. (government monitors, please note the hypothetical verbage in this paragraph...please don't lock me up)

So I'm guessing that the first amendment will be gone by the time Obama takes office.

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I wouldn't go that far. You still have a right to free speech to which the government doesn't object.

 

And it's already that way now.

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