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Cutting down on debate tubs for travel...

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Duh. that's what I was saying, anonymous neg repper.

 

 

 

 

The Cal tournament hotel did this. We used the printing client from the wifi in our rooms on the laptops, and someone went downstairs to activate the print jobs there. Very handy when you lose a 1AC the night before :)

 

Some idiot team left their politics updates up on the downstairs computer on a usb stick, and my partner told me later that at least 3 separate squads had stolen them. But we're not idiots here, are we...?

 

 

 

Please see my last two posts in this thread. Especially #47, supra.

 

I don't even have a team to coach, but I just laid out $5C to set up a meeting with a big-time SoCal IT conslultant to discuss my ideas for adapting trial court use of CT to the policy debate forum.

 

IF you folks think this idea is DOA, and/or

IF it's already being done...

 

WOULD SOMEBODY PLEASE LET ME KNOW SO I CAN SAVE MY MONEY? I STILL HAVE MORE THAN $1K IN UNUSED SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA EVIDENCE GATHERING DUST IN MY STOREROOM FROM LAST YEAR AROUND THIS TIME. :(

 

Sorry to yell, but sometimes I just get cranky. Especially after my daughter's friends put itching powder in my dentures.

Edited by topspeaker70

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Please see my last two posts in this thread. Especially #47, supra.

 

I don't even have a team to coach, but I just laid out $5C to set up a meeting with a big-time SoCal IT conslultant to discuss my ideas for adapting trial court use of CT to the policy debate forum.

 

IF you folks think this idea is DOA, and/or

IF it's already being done...

 

WOULD SOMEBODY PLEASE LET ME KNOW SO I CAN SAVE MY MONEY? I STILL HAVE MORE THAN $1K IN UNUSED SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA EVIDENCE GATHERING DUST IN MY STOREROOM FROM LAST YEAR AROUND THIS TIME. :(

 

Sorry to yell, but sometimes I just get cranky. Especially after my daughter's friends put itching power in my dentures.

 

I have no problem with your use of common acronyms such as POTUS, but things like CT should be explained to those of us who just don't know what you're talking about.

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I have no problem with your use of common acronyms such as POTUS, but things like CT should be explained to those of us who just don't know what you're talking about.

 

 

CT = computer technology. Sorry; that's just lawfirm jargon. My bad.

 

IT = information technology. Ditto.

 

$5C = $500.00

 

$1K = $1,000.00

 

And NO, I'm not referring to you...

 

Getting red-repped by anonymous preadolescent protohuman semi-animated pustules = priceless!

Edited by topspeaker70
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CT = computer technology. Sorry; that's just lawfirm jargon. My bad.

 

IT = information technology. Ditto.

 

$5C = $500.00

 

$1K = $1,000.00

 

And NO, I not referring to you...

Getting red-repped by anonymous preadolescent protohuman semi-animated pustules = priceless!

 

Parentetical citation of obscure acronyms would satisfy me just fine :)

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Parentetical citation of obscure acronyms would satisfy me just fine :)

 

Will be glad to do it; but now do you (and others) understand what it's like for someone like me to hear a contemporary policy debate and/or read anything written on this Board of an in-depth, material nature.

 

That is why I have advertised - and am still advertising - for a polylingual debate coach.

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Will be glad to do it; but now do you (and others) understand what it's like for someone like me to hear a contemporary policy debate and/or read anything written on this Board of an in-depth, material nature.

 

That is why I have advertised - and am still advertising - for a polylingual debate coach.

 

Somehow, I think Shuman would fit that bill perfectly. The distance problem does arise, though.

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I just laid out $5C to set up a meeting with a big-time SoCal IT conslultant to discuss my ideas for adapting trial court use of CT to the policy debate forum.

 

IF you folks think this idea is DOA, and/or

IF it's already being done...

 

WOULD SOMEBODY PLEASE LET ME KNOW SO I CAN SAVE MY MONEY? I STILL HAVE MORE THAN $1K IN UNUSED SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA EVIDENCE GATHERING DUST IN MY STOREROOM FROM LAST YEAR AROUND THIS TIME. :(

I wish it were being done more across the board. That particular instance was because it was a business-traveller-oriented hotel and those were its own services that we debaters just hopped on and clogged up.

 

Most people store ev in their own email accounts, then have to figure their own printing shindig. This means either bringing a printer, running to kinko's, or if lucky, using a hotel printer (perhaps for a fee). The stress of that is why we have such enormous tubs of preprinted stuff.

 

I however, can't envision how the printing infrastructure would be set up on a tournament-organized basis. Michael, would you enlighten us?

 

** Oh, That technology, in post 47. That sounds damn cool. And damn impractical for classroom use (especially for Cal/Harvard size tournaments)! Oh well.

Edited by w/o_mat_quals

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I apologize.

 

It seems to me that a lot of you have been missing my point.

 

Forget printers. Forget paper. Think laptops and cyberspace. (Not that anyone in debate would already have and/or already know how to use laptops and/or cyberspace.) Please consider this scenario:

 

Each debater and each judge has a laptop. They are linked for the purposes of the round.

 

The debaters are physically present to argue, and they do. As they argue, all the screens display the "cards" and/or "briefs" being cited by the debater as evidence simultaneously. They come from cyberspace. They go back to cyberspace when they're not being used. They are perpetually available for review by the judge. And most of all, they don't need no airplane tickets.

 

And if anyone still wants to use paper, flow on legal pads!

 

Impossible? Yeah, that's what they (the worthless old farts) said about paperless peer review hearings - complete with extensive and highly-complex "evidence" (medical charts) and very lengthy and very detailed written "briefing" by both sides, in conjunction with very heated technical arguments made by both physicians and their attorneys, followed by votes on the physician's right to practice medicine.

 

Impossible, you say? You're in good company. It took us two full years of very angry and contentious argument to get people at a lot of hospital boards and other administrative review boards to accept it... in 1990-92.

 

And yeah... it would be expensive, but policy debate today is free, right?

 

And yeah... this idea is not a finished system... and the Manhattan Project and the Apollo Program occurred in a day and were created by just one guy...

 

I don't know if I'm making my point, or just making an ass of myself (again), but I think you people are trapped by by old concepts.

 

Sorry to be so old school.

 

P.S. You guys on the national circuit already do case disclosure and exchange prior to the tournament(s), don't you? Then why lug around anything that isn't relevant? And don't you burn your cases and briefs onto CDs prior to going to the tournament(s)? Why do you haul around all that - pardon the expression - 15th Century PAPER?

Edited by topspeaker70

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Has anyone ever tried UPSing (or Fedexing, or whatever) their evidence to a tournament before? How much does it cost?

 

~Bill

 

I just sent my (5) tubs, they are smaller than most other people's i think, they weigh from 35 to 50 lbs each, through FedEx Express from Texas to Las Vegas.

 

It cost about $600. It was ridiculous, but hey, school is paying ;). It was two day shipping to our motel. We are flying and we don't have enough people + we don't trust the airlines to not break/spill our tubs to check them.

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It cost about $600... but hey, school is paying ;). It was two day shipping to our motel. We are flying and we don't have enough people + we don't trust the airlines to not break/spill our tubs to check them.

 

Op. cit.

 

And if my idea sucks, don't tell me - tell debate. And maybe tell the taxpayers who fund debate in the public schools, and maybe tell the dumbass parents of private school debaters, who end up subsidizing debate in both systems.

 

But hey - nobody wants me as a coach... and I have no ideas that could be valuable to debate.

 

SORRY! I did get bitter there - back to my Bible and my AK-47.

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well some quick tips to cut down on the actual file size of what you print is to

 

- make the margins way wider so more words fit on the paper

- make the font 7pt and also underline so its easier to read bold face can help but meh

- make sure to abbreviate common words like Status Quo can be stsquo or inherency can be inh. harms can be Hrm. advantages can be advs. stuff like that

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A/T - no paper rounds:

 

I guess the issue is feasibility with solely using computers. Most high school debaters are warned against using laptops in round due to the small but ever present risk of a sudden shutdown or power failure etc.

 

The benefit of having paper evidence is that it's alot more difficult to lose/destroy. and is replaceable. Losing Page 54 of heg bad isnt a big deal, but when the heg bad file itself gets corrupted on Jack from Kansas' 1999 Dell, there's a much bigger issue.

 

Also, there's just something about holding evidence that's more efficient. This for a couple reasons

A. Scrolling -definetly a pain, especially at 400 Words per minute.

B. Being able to look at a bunch of cards at one time - this cant happen in a word document.

C. Copy and pasting is mad annoying, having paper means you can just manually shuffle it.

 

Look, Folks...

 

I'm not going to "defend" my proposal, because (a) it ain't exclusively mine; and, (B) it ain't a completed proposal. It's a suggestion - from someone who cares. So this, absent some compelling empirical reason, is my last post in this thread.

 

I've spent a lot of time investigating, and $1,000 in consultation with a CT expert on, this problem. I don't have any more time and resources to donate - at least at this time - I wish I did. When the election is over, I might revisit this.

 

I'm not going to get bogged down in details. Obviously, there will be problems. There are always problems in developing anything that is truly innovative.

 

But there were - and I suspect still are - problems with the existing usage of computers in debate. Yes... or no?

 

There are several thousand members on this Board and many thousands more who observe - who are negatively impacted by the problem of these staggering travel costs. If there's a way to make my suggestion work, I'm confident they will find it. If there's a better way to solve the problem... I hope they find it; and soon. :)

 

But I sometimes think - as I watch Americans in general - that they are like passengers on the Titanic*- debating whether the Captain or someone else was responsible for hitting the iceberg. In other words: don't just talk - act!

 

I'd be obliged to know if anything positive comes from this.

 

sonofshasta1970@yahoo.com

 

* Mikey's moral: Think beyond the "tub."

Edited by topspeaker70

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Just to chime in here: as one of those lazy K debaters, I get rather sour when people talk about becoming a K-hack and only having to carry 1 file. We carried 5 tubs this year, and with the exception of a policy aff and a case negs expando, it was filled with critique evidence.

 

Good K debaters have just as many tubs as the rest of you.

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Just to chime in here: as one of those lazy K debaters, I get rather sour when people talk about becoming a K-hack and only having to carry 1 file. We carried 5 tubs this year, and with the exception of a policy aff and a case negs expando, it was filled with critique evidence.

 

Good K debaters have just as many tubs as the rest of you.

 

But there are those exceptions where a good K team can roll with one tub, or in those exceptionally baller instances, just backpack it to a tournament. I've known few decent teams to go to tournaments only packing their politics expando and their aff case.

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Hey I was wondering if anyone knew of any eco-friendly tubs to buy.

Possibly used with recycled plastic or what not.

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Hey I was wondering if anyone knew of any eco-friendly tubs to buy.

Possibly used with recycled plastic or what not.

If you're looking for the common Rubbermaid ones, then there's only one type you can buy: plastic. The other alternative would be using cardboard boxes.

 

You can calculate the carbon emissions due to your debate tubs and buy some carbon offsets.

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Regarding the "cost of tubs crisis," and the ideas of reducing the weight of tubs, making the tubs more eco-friendly, etc., I could not help but be reminded of The Hollow Men by T.S. Eliot, perhaps modified to reflect 21st Century reality:

 

This is the way debate ends

This is the way debate ends

This is the way debate ends

Not with a bang

But a hamper.

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My partner and I in HS carried one tub (the famed box of death) our junior year. (Our senior year, we had two.) Yet I'm sure we were just as prepared as most of the teams on our circuit that carried 5-6.

 

We spent weeks in the summer after camp recutting stuff to make it more efficient, often culling stuff we knew we'd never use or that was unreadable. We made a few strategic choices about positions we simply wouldn't go for...then carried the shells but only 8-10 pages of extensions. And we were very very organized.

 

There's a Freudian complex associated with carrying more tubs than the other team, and that discourages efficiency. Our strategy was to lure them into complacency because they thought we were nobody. We won a lot of rounds by confounding those expectations.

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I have a few ways that are relatively easy.

 

1. Printer = Carry on. A good printer you can keep in your lap

 

2. Most tournaments are on the weekend so pack minimal clothes (No one cares if you wear the same pants or shirt)

 

3. duffel bags can carry allot more files and expandos in my bag you could fit at least 2 tubs with lots more room left over.

 

4. Know what negs you are usually going to hit and take out the silly neg strats that don't link to your case.

 

5. Get really good at like 4-5 neg strats and only pack those

 

6. Share files through out the team. No one needs 3 different teams to have the same file

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