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steverenzi

LeMars is my heros

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In reference to what the devil posted, excuse me, eldiablo. No, not in consideration of that, we don't need to list reasons why LeMars is heros, we just post it and sit back like thugs because we know we're right. I think you'll find this is not solely my opinion, when my crew gets back from Emory there will be much support of this argument I imagine.

 

Meggie, get used to it!

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'nuff said.

 

 

aww... Steve! it's mutual. Valley is my hero.

 

Meggie's right though... being Valley's hero is one of those things that if you'd told me it was going to happen say like 2 or 3 years ago i would have laughed at you.

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In reference to what the devil posted, excuse me, eldiablo. No, not in consideration of that, we don't need to list reasons why LeMars is heros, we just post it and sit back like thugs because we know we're right. I think you'll find this is not solely my opinion, when my crew gets back from Emory there will be much support of this argument I imagine.

 

Meggie, get used to it!

 

o i completely understand, and even if that were the case trust me, we've doubled the amount of losses to them.

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aww... Steve! it's mutual. Valley is my hero.

 

Meggie's right though... being Valley's hero is one of those things that if you'd told me it was going to happen say like 2 or 3 years ago i would have laughed at you.

 

There are so many things that if someone said they would happen in the future 2 or 3 years ago I would have laughed at them...

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They're my hero, too

They saved my first-born from wolves

I'll never forget ;)

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o i completely understand, and even if that were the case trust me, we've doubled the amount of losses to them.

 

 

who are you?

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Enough said? They got in a hissy fit and pulled out of the yankton tournament after the 4th round.

 

for the sake of you not looking like a complete worthless jackass, i'll gladly inform you on the circumstances in which we left the tournament

 

Watertown felt the need to lie about the wareabouts of one of our judges saying that he stopped the round after the 1ar to give a lecture (all who know michael mapes know this is a ridiculous claim) even after talking to the other team, vermillion, who gladly took the side of michael saying no such thing happened, the tournament indicated that brookings and watertown would get to strike michael from furthur judging them. however, they did this without allowing lemars to aquire a strike as well or any other school at the tournament for that matter. this is fucking absurd.

 

frankly, i debated the 4 rounds this weekend even though i had to walk through the halls and get glared at and people whispering about me as i walked by. i have NEVER been so disrespected at any tournmanet in my entire life. EVER. why would we want to come to a tournament like that? we go to iowa and teams look up to us and we have tons of friends there, but in south dakota, we are hated and dropped because we're from a different state. why is it that at national tournaments we go and get speaker awards and late outrounds, but here we go 1-3, 0-5?

 

if i would have known all it took to get a judge knocked out of the tournament was bitch to the tabroom, i might have done it after 1st round when i got yelled at in cross-x by a judge and got dropped b/c he didnt like the argument. lemars has put up with this stupid shit for years, and i am glad to say i will never be returning to another one of y oru worthless tournaments again. and i will pursuade my coaches to never waste money for sure losses and low speaks

 

Meggie

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I wouldn't think you would need to immediately devolve into a name calling contest. I have always known watertown to be fair and honest. What I know of the situation is only what I've heard from a couple of coaches, but I think it's fair that those schools could request to not have a judge judge their students if such an accusation has been made. I have absolutely no idea why LeMars should have been allowed a strike, Brookings and Watertown judges haven't been accused of anything, and always seem to be well qualified IMHO.

 

Also, I highly doubt everyone was whispering about you as you walked by. I wasn't since I'm not aware of who you are. You are not hated and dropped because you are from a different state. The debate style is somewhat different in South Dakota than Iowa, but you should be expecting that when you travel here. I'm sure if you asked the judges what they do and do not like, they would tell you. If you're unwilling to adopt to the south dakota style of debate when in south dakota, of course you're not going to do as well. The rest of the state shouldn't be forced to adopt to you.

 

If you're impugning the integrity of Yankton's tabroom, I've known Leo Kallis & the other tournament directors to be nothing but fair and impartial throughout the years. They were even nice enough to give you your ballots when other coaches would have not.

 

 

the accusation was proven false when the other team, vermillion, was consulted. the situation was mishandled, just as the situation last weekend at Watertown was mishandled. if Brookings and Watertown were going to be allowed strikes against our judges for a reason proven false, the only fair way is to let us do the same, when clearly we had reasons to complain about judges as well. and it's not even about that... if we aren't going to be treated with respect, why waste our time? you tell us to adapt to SoDak style, well i know from first hand experience (i debated with Meggie last weekend at Watertown) that even when we adapt, we still get dropped. and this issue has already been addressed in the "where have all the politics gone" thread. bottom line is that we felt unwelcome, and clearly to some schools our judges were unwelcome, so we felt as though we might as well do you all a favor and come back to Iowa. clearly, people like you can't respect us when we come or when we decide not to grace you with our presence. can we do anything right? i guess not.

 

that's all i have to say. i hope some of the SoDak debaters that i know aren't offended (like Lincoln Campbell and Ryan Zellmer, both of whom i know from camp in past years). this has nothing to do with you. you all still rock! good luck in the remainder of your season. :)

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Enough said? They got in a hissy fit and pulled out of the yankton tournament after the 4th round.

 

yes, and we'd do it again in a heartbeat.

 

Not only were our judges disrespected, but our debaters and coaches were disrespected. There simply is no excuse for the way we were treated. We shouldn't have to deal with that.

 

LeMars has made a really good effort in years past to always return to South Dakota and to adapt to the stylistic differences. Granted, we may not have always adapted as much as some thought we should have, but we adapted a lot more than I think was precieved. We showed that much respect for the way the state debates only to get treated openly unfairly.

 

We were completely justified in leaving, and will be in never coming back too.

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Sounds like its too bad i missed out on this weekend....i really dont know the facts on what happened, but yea, why not just finish the tournament? i hear all this about its not nice to be disrespected and whatnot and if thats true....whatever, but, as opposed to giving up, wouldnt it be a bigger statement to stay in spite of all the "adversity" you faced in South Dakota. The Lance Armstrong scene in the movie dodgeball comes to mind....

Tom

p.s. sorry if i suck at making movie allusions :D

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dear matt-

 

it shows your lack of cred when you post shit within a thread dedicated to us, and you procede to bash us. good job you trick

 

Sincerely,

 

Margarethe Joy Mapes

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Never will the words "Le Mars ARE my heros" come out of my mouth... as I feel that sac religious in so many different ways, specifically since I spent the greater majority of my HS, and to a degree college efforts, making sure that Le Mars teams didn't qualify for nationals... (well more just Michael Mapes, but that is neither here nor there)

 

However, wow, Mikey has gotten quite the bad rap for the last couple of weekends, and I think its awesome. For him that is.

 

"We are offended you answered your cell phone in cross x" ~ tab room

 

""well we're offended when your judges don't flow, obviously they are not focused on the debate" ~ Miguel Mapes

 

Mad props Mikey. This situation speaks a lot towards South Dakota debate, or perhaps more specifically towards the style of debate in general. I was judging at nationals with a judge from SD and was APPALLED by something they said. Prior to the round when discussing their paradigm, this judge went straight down a list of "this is what I will listen to. these are the arguments I like, these are the arguments I don't like. I won't listen to arguments i don't like. This is the speed I like. If you are too fast I won't even try to listen. If I don't understand an argument, I won't try to understand it." Now mind you - this was not "this is the style of debate I like".. these were specific disads (they didn't want to listen to ANY counterplan or critical argument, those are abusive....ooooooo) IE - I don't like the coast gaurd disad - wont' listen to it, but I like spending. I dont like these types affs - will listen to these. Bottom line - GET THE FUCK OVER YOURSELF. GROW A BRAIN, AND OPEN UP. If you're not smart enough to understand the arg, or more specifically are too dumb to exert effort to stir your braincells enough to start thinking, do us all a favor and jump off the building - maybe then we can solve Malthus' overpopulation argument. (which is somehow morally repugnant, even if framed in such a way that it saves lives... or so they said)

 

I have had these judges a million times, and thankfully don't have to anymore. However, my coach told me, and I believe this is true, that adaptation is a necessary component of debate. But there is a degree of adaptation - its a two way street. Sticking Grandma in the back of the room who knows shit about debate = fuck up by debate official. You don't have a nuclear physicist who has never seen a basketball referree a basketball game. You don't have a grandma who knows nothing about debate judge a debate. I am sick and tired of good teams doing shitty at these tournaments because of the judging pool that is there. Yes - adapt. But these judges need to adapt too. But, in order to do that, they need to have at least a couple of brain cells.

 

That said, I now feel it necessary to bring up something a coach from a team that has won multiple TOC/National Championships in last 25 years, and is widely renound as one of the top programs in the country, said to me a few years ago.

 

He said... "I love debating at nationals. People bitch about adapting. I welcome it. Its so easy to convince stupid people about stupid arguments. But sometimes its hard because they're just so damn dumb"

 

Who this coach is will remain anonymous, as I am sure he/she would kill me if I wrote their name. But I think it says a lot about "old school" debate in general.

 

What Mike has done in the last few tournaments was not his fault, but rather the fuck up of the tab room and whoever is running them. What Le Mars did was the right thing to do, and I am glad someone had the stones to stand up and do it. Bottom line - there's a reason a team that broke at the TOC (almost always won or was in late elims) wins nationals. They're just better - and that style of debate, is just dominating.

 

Schoofs

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Ok SoDak - when Ross Schoofs is sticking up for LeMars that has to tell you that we are just right and you are just wrong.

 

=)

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I was the tournament director at Yankton this past weekend. I want to clear up a couple of factual errors on this thread and make a couple of comments and then be gone.

 

First, I believe that any responsible director would check out a charge that a judge was making comments about the round between speeches.

 

Second, I believe this is the most important point. Neither the coach from Watertown nor the coach from Brookings asked me to strike Michael Mapes. I made that call because I believed that it would be wrong to have a judge who was angry about the situation judge the object of his anger.

 

Third, Ms. Soderberg and I respectfully agreed to disagree about the decision. I bear no enmity toward her and she indicated to me that she bears none toward me. Therefore, I consider the matter settled.

 

Fourth, I hope that South Dakota debaters will leave this thread alone. It is dedicated to people who some view as heroes, and the world has too few heroes as it is.

 

Kallis

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First, I believe that any responsible director would check out a charge that a judge was making comments about the round between speeches.

 

Kallis

 

Actually they wouldn't because not everyone thinks debate has to exist with zero degree of flexibility, there are those of us who realize that debate can be fun absent legal formalism. Furthermore, no they wouldn't they probalby wouldn't because they would realize the VALUE of oral comments. Furthermore, no they wouldn't because anyone who knows about IOWA debate knows no one would do that.

 

I'm out

Mapes

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I was the tournament director at Yankton this past weekend. I want to clear up a couple of factual errors on this thread and make a couple of comments and then be gone.

 

First, I believe that any responsible director would check out a charge that a judge was making comments about the round between speeches.

 

I only have one response- I believe that if this was true, then any responsible director should check out charges when judges yell at debaters or dont flow their speeches. that seems more tramatizing then talking about college debate.

 

Meggie

 

btw- much appreciation to the last comment

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