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CEDA Nationals 2008

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Also, I think there's too much conflation of Towson JM and CL. Here's what we ran during CEDA to give you a better idea of what we were talking about:

 

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Also, I think there's too much conflation of Towson JM and CL. Here's what we ran during CEDA to give you a better idea of what we were talking about:

 

 

Hey, that's just the intro. What about the rest of the video? and thanks!

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did shannahan really moon the crowd?

Yes, he admitted to being an asshole and then mooned the crowd. Pretty funny.

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I think that a lot of this discussion is predicated off of the rounds being posted online so that everyone can see how the rounds ACTUALLY played out.

 

I filmed every Towson CL out-round and RFD, but what's problematic is getting releases from squad members (i.e Kansas, Fort Hayes, etc) and judges. And (legally) I don't think we can post them without their consent.

 

If there are legal implications, I want to make sure that that's all taken care of first and foremost.

 

Any ideas on how we can have this taken care of?

 

I've gotta see this stuff

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Also, I think there's too much conflation of Towson JM and CL. Here's what we ran during CEDA to give you a better idea of what we were talking about:

 

 

i agree, i have no idea why folks were conflating your arguments all weekend. I never got a chance to see your argument, but this video is extremely powerful.

 

thanks for sharing, man.

 

and i'm glad you dug the 1nr, rob. sorry if you weren't down with sheep dreaming of android sperm :). hope the tattooed erections were okay ;)

 

:cs:

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Eric Morris from Missouri State regularly puts up debate videos he's taped on youtube under ermocito (http://youtube.com/user/ermocito). You can send him an email to ask what his procedure is in regards to legal implications.

 

I don't think it should be a problem though. I am really interested in seeing these outrounds as well, since I didn't have the time to go to Ceda Nats.

 

That link doesn't work =/

 

I also am impressed with Towson's video. I'd be very interested to see any of the elim rounds.

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Also, I think there's too much conflation of Towson JM and CL. Here's what we ran during CEDA to give you a better idea of what we were talking about:

 

 

Great video, I'm intrigued to see more.

 

As far as the legality of posting the videos online... unless you plan on profiting from the video in some way you probably wouldn't need to get signed release forms. A simple email would do (the law is very undefined when it comes to privacy, fair use & copyright concerns).

 

Worst case is you post it w/o consent and a takedown order is issued (which you'd have to comply with).

 

The link below explains the basics of the laws involved

 

http://www.videomaker.com/article/3651/

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After internalizing the heart of their argument, I will now automatically vote for any student of either Irish heritage or of the Jewish religion. If debate is about using the ballot to make up for past injustices - then I proclaim that Irish men and women, and their descendants, and that members of the Jewish faith have suffered terribly for their ethnicity or religion. Hence forth all of my ballots shall reward all Irish people and practicers of the jewish faith with 30 pts and the win! If there exists, on both teams, members of these groups I shall assign 30 pts and then vote for whoever tells me the more piteous story of their suffering.....because.......that's what debate is about!

 

(RIIIIIGGGHHHHHHTTTTTT) I want to be happy for Towson because I know the people there and I've seen what they've done with the BCFL and it's a great group of people....but a part of me can't be happy for a win delivered with those arguments...Aw well...it's not my happiness...it's their moment..but still......it leads one to think.

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My question is:

 

Where the hell is Towson, or Louisville or Fullerton's topic paper? Where are they trying to engage the community in a non-competitive setting that will bring about change?

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clearly that is not our argument, if anything this discussion only proves our argument >>

 

Perhaps..perhaps not..I havent' seen a video of the round so I can't say...but based on the linked video that I watched - that clearly said y'all were speaking for all the slaves, all the dead native americans..etc...I was simply responding to that video...

 

Oh..and when you speak for the African-American soldiers who died in the Civil War? Are you speaking just for those who died fighting for the Union? Or do you also acknowledge that several free African-American soldiers gave their lives fighting for the Confederacy?

 

Now, before you call me a racist or something..I should point out that I vote, fairly consistently, for these types of arguments - 'project style" debates - or whatever you want to call them - becasue I thin kthe ballot should go to team doing the better debating, so woe to anyone who thinks I reject this out of hand..I think it's not the type of arguments I would want my debaters to run, but I accept that it is an argument, and, if done correctly, a very compelling one.

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Um, I think a conversation about Towson's approach is perfectly healthy and appropriate, but a couple of y'all are behaving so childishly no one is going to be reading your spew much longer. Why don't you flame each other via PM and let the civilized among us have a conversation that doesn't involve childish name-calling? I think Towson's remarkable success deserves that much respect, certainly, and if y'all will lighten up on the invective I think we might be able to have a fruitful thread...

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clearly that is not our argument, if anything this discussion only proves our argument >>

 

Perhaps..perhaps not..I havent' seen a video of the round so I can't say...but based on the linked video that I watched - that clearly said y'all were speaking for all the slaves, all the dead native americans..etc...I was simply responding to that video...

 

Oh..and when you speak for the African-American soldiers who died in the Civil War? Are you speaking just for those who died fighting for the Union? Or do you also acknowledge that several free African-American soldiers gave their lives fighting for the Confederacy?

 

Now, before you call me a racist or something..I should point out that I vote, fairly consistently, for these types of arguments - 'project style" debates - or whatever you want to call them - becasue I thin kthe ballot should go to team doing the better debating, so woe to anyone who thinks I reject this out of hand..I think it's not the type of arguments I would want my debaters to run, but I accept that it is an argument, and, if done correctly, a very compelling one.

 

 

DUH! Of course you are a racist if you don't vote for the performance! Obviously you are a racist if you believe in the resolution. Clearly the resolution is white and it hates all minorities.

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How about this...

 

Unless you have judged, or otherwise seen or participated in a Towson CL or JM debate, then stay out of the conversation.

 

You all are consistently mischaracterizing and flat out falsifying our arguments, and I would appreciate it if you just let us enjoy our CEDA victory.

 

The problem is other people are gonna see these posts, who probabl have never debated and take it to heart instead of talking to the people who actually make the arguments (i.e TOWSON).

 

If you don't mind, we would really appreciate it if you just shut up and get over it.

 

We never bitch and whine when Harvard or Northwestern win, let us have our moment in the sun and enjoy our victory.

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How about this...

 

Unless you have judged, or otherwise seen or participated in a Towson CL or JM debate, then stay out of the conversation.

 

You all are consistently mischaracterizing and flat out falsifying our arguments, and I would appreciate it if you just let us enjoy our CEDA victory.

 

The problem is other people are gonna see these posts, who probabl have never debated and take it to heart instead of talking to the people who actually make the arguments (i.e TOWSON).

 

If you don't mind, we would really appreciate it if you just shut up and get over it.

 

We never bitch and whine when Harvard or Northwestern win, let us have our moment in the sun and enjoy our victory.

 

I don't hate your business I hope this wasn't directed towards me. Congrats to your squad.

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How about this...

 

Unless you have judged, or otherwise seen or participated in a Towson CL or JM debate, then stay out of the conversation.

 

You all are consistently mischaracterizing and flat out falsifying our arguments, and I would appreciate it if you just let us enjoy our CEDA victory.

 

The problem is other people are gonna see these posts, who probabl have never debated and take it to heart instead of talking to the people who actually make the arguments (i.e TOWSON).

 

If you don't mind, we would really appreciate it if you just shut up and get over it.

 

We never bitch and whine when Harvard or Northwestern win, let us have our moment in the sun and enjoy our victory.

 

Why don't you just clear up whatever misconceptions are going on with this thread. I agree, a lot of people are trivializing/misinterpreting your args in rounds.. just set us straight :)

 

I'm not trying to be clever/sarcastic. I've debated you before and I think your arguments are really interesting and worth discussing in forums like this in an accurate manner.

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i dont think anyone is whining about you all winning your just trying to make it seem that way because apparently "everyone is just sick that your calling us all racists." I know thats not at all your arg and i think its creative, i was just trying to discuss some possible answers to it and that *bleep* bag started dissing on me and kansas debaters. She/he? obviously is one of many stupid people on here that read threads and try to make fun of people to boost their own cred when really it justs makes them look like a dick. Oh and if you want to enjoy your victory then stop making it seem as if the entire world is against you cuz its not. The reason people think poorly of you is because you pretty much called a team racist in the round to make your arg. Low blows are cheap and so are unwarranted claims of racism.

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first and foremost, i would like to say congrats to the tigers

 

Second, the only reason people are mis-reading your arguments is because one of the two video in the thread(as of two days ago, i haven't went back and checked out other videos yet if there are new ones) starts off with someone of black decent attempting to go "Nietzche" by attempting to see who can scream the most sexist slogans possible (ex. it is the vagina that rules the world). While funny, i think it does misconstrue your point because no-one has came out and said "this is exactly what we did". All i know so far is that "debate is racist (again) and endorses white aesthetics (again).

 

Third, this is coming from someone who worked in a homeless shelter (both adult and teen) for 2 1/2 years... your arguments about how the academy prefer a white-approach and social policy is white (social programs, lack of funding for inter-city schools, etc etc) are rather backwards. If anything, the most racist and elitist people i've met in the academy (from true inter-city schooling systems) are very anti-white to the point that anything the white man does is "hold us down" (if you don't believe it, then take your argument to the actual streets and see what reaction you will get).

 

Actually, i beat you to it and in fact already have. I asked the guys down there if i could show them a video of some college debaters making an argument and wondered if i could get some feedback and these are some of the comments they directed (to you, read: towson):

 

"This nigger just wants someone to suck up to his ass so that he can feel better about himself. When was the last fucking time this cunt ever faced real shit....this is a joke"

 

"what mother fucker cock thinks he can change the white man. he evidently never faced the real shit that whitey [no offense xander] can fucking do. He wouldn't survive 10 minutes in a place like this, cock sucking faggot".

 

"turn this shit off, its fucking stupid"

 

"way to preach to the masses, cock"

 

etc. etc..

 

a few found it inspiring, but most of them think that you guys are a bunch of idiots that are nothing but "whites in disguise"...

 

So, to get to the point, how does your argument function in the real world. When my friend Leon gets randomly searched for drugs before he goes to the shelter to cook, should he stop the cop and go "Black aesthetics/white aesthetics" ???

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Soo..let me get this right - just so my mind can grasp it - a representative of a national championship debate squad just ordered the debate community to shut up and stop talking? I'm a Dr. Who fan, and I think that's a paradox that would even baffle the good Dr.

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How about this...

 

Unless you have judged, or otherwise seen or participated in a Towson CL or JM debate, then stay out of the conversation.

 

You all are consistently mischaracterizing and flat out falsifying our arguments, and I would appreciate it if you just let us enjoy our CEDA victory.

 

The problem is other people are gonna see these posts, who probabl have never debated and take it to heart instead of talking to the people who actually make the arguments (i.e TOWSON).

 

If you don't mind, we would really appreciate it if you just shut up and get over it.

 

We never bitch and whine when Harvard or Northwestern win, let us have our moment in the sun and enjoy our victory.

 

Congrats Deven and Dayvon for their sweet performance at CEDA nats.

 

I think that Towson's arguments are unfairly mischaracterized by a lot of the people who are talking smack about it- especially by the people who have not even watched Towson CL's rounds. I know that most of us debaters like to hear ourselves talk, but I think that it's probably downright stupid to comment before one actually WATCHES one of their rounds and should refrain from adding to false commentary- especially considering how Towson was often ahead on the line-by-line as well as holistic approach in many of the outround debates.

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especially considering how Towson was often ahead on the line-by-line as well as holistic approach in many of the outround debates.

 

lol! Not to be mean but i would have to disagree strongly. semi's, although i dont disagree with the judges on RFD, i do think they were losing the line by line. and in doubles i hear they all but conceded imperialism good. Apparently it one judge says to Wichita State, "i dont see how imperialism answers their arg" and one of the other judges says, "alt kills US imperialism."

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lol! Not to be mean but i would have to disagree strongly. semi's, although i dont disagree with the judges on RFD, i do think they were losing the line by line. and in doubles i hear they all but conceded imperialism good. Apparently it one judge says to Wichita State, "i dont see how imperialism answers their arg" and one of the other judges says, "alt kills US imperialism."

 

I admit I did not watch the doubles round and things may have gone down as you suggest, I was speaking mainly about the finals round and the quarters round which I saw the entirety of (I only got to see the 2NR and 2AR of the sems round so I also can't really say anything); I am sorry if I conflated their rounds as a whole. But I do think that even in some rounds where they were debatably not answering the line-by-line, the RFD would probably stayed the same even on a flow basis as you suggest, considering the offense they were winning in most of the debates (which generally trumped the claims that other teams were making).

 

In any case, my main point was more a concern about how people were bastardizing the arg and then making assumptions about the team that are simply untrue without watching the round. Obviously you can be entitled to your own opinions when you see the rounds themselves but I think we should make an effort not to make overgeneralizations like "you are killing debate" or crucify Towson for winning CEDA nationals before actually watching their rounds.

 

Although by far, I have to say that I had a soft spot for the quarters round that Towson had. Thanks Fort Hays and Towson for an awesome debate.

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First of all, big congrats to both Towson winning CEDA and also the second team who made a great showing in the elimination rounds.

 

Based off my round in prelims as well as what I saw in elims, the argument is that current debate upholds a white aesthetic, where we don't just lose our agency, we operate in technocratic terms that prevent us from becoming good policy makers, activists, individuals, etc.

 

They think debate should be about liberating the oppressed and that we should primarily be fighting white opression. They advocated the black aesthetic where it was more about our personal subjectivity, rap music, and incorporated things into the debate that wern't just spewed newspaper clippings or academics.

 

The round in prelims I had against them was a bit different from elimination; against me, they played the Road to CEDA video (and yes, that is only the introduction. the rest of it had them discussing white aesthetics, reading some Mills evidence, and a discussion of the somatic norm, eurocentrism, and affirming a black aesthetic.) They then made a claim that they were part of a movement, that seeing a black person win CEDA nationals would help promote inclusion. This argument should not be framed as the crux of their advocacy; it's just another reason to vote for them. They do provide many intellectual reasons to affirm their project (using the term project because I don't really know what they call themselves, sorry if thats offensive) which is why they grabbed so many debates.

 

A lot of the people bad mouthing them are totally mischaracterizing it. I know before my round I felt kinda awkward walking into the debate. I won't lie- I fellt before the round that what they were doing was total bull shit. But when you interact with them and actually listen to what they have to say, they do bring some very interesting things to the table and beg some pretty important questions about both society and debate.

 

Again, congrats and good luck to Towson at the NDT.

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You are a little shit, you know more about evaluateing the round than Jason fucking Russel and Malcom Gordon? Shut the fuck up

 

listen you fucking cunt! why dont you stop reading if you dont like my opinion. im not here to please you. and once again you dont know how to read or else you would of noticed the part where i said i did agree with the RFD. jeez. your just pissed i bet because your one of those people that think every white person is racist. "Amerikka?!" what a fucking dutschebag. if you dont like America then get the fuck out. Also, IS Daria a guy or girls name? She/he is just mad cuz she/he woke up on the wrong side of her/his mother this morning lol! pull your pants up; im done with you!

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