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JustinP

TFA State 2008

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yeah congrats to them, i watched quarters against shelby and tonia and i gotta say, that was probably one of the most persuasive 2ar's ive heard in a while

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joke is on you: seems that my name is on the break list.

 

what i find more funny is the fact that this attempt to denunciate my original post comes from someone who couldn't even qualify for state.

 

No, I don't think you were on the break list.

There isn't anyone on there who's an asshole that I don't already know the cross-x nickname for.

 

If you don't have anything to hide, tell us you're name, and we'll be happy to talk things over.

 

 

Congrats to DSharp and Ryan!

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All I can tell from IP checks is that he is from houston, other users with his username are ind0oF0o and non topical.

 

oh I figured out who he is

Milan Raj (Hightower)

 

So, in light of that, Milan, do you have something against us? Traditionally Hightower and Clear Lake have been on relatively good terms with each other, and considering you're a senior, you don't even know many of us.

 

Next time, don't lie, you weren't on the break list for anything. Well, maybe impromptu, I didn't check that ;)

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People’s perceptions of Clear Lake have been wrongfully harmed because of this fiasco. Many opposing teams have been standing over our shoulders every round and trying to make us read certain cards in a certain amount of time in cross-x to try to catch us clipping. We have proven over and over again that we did not clip cards.

 

 

Just like you, I was not in the round; however, given what I know about Dan, I'm confident in saying that he would not have told a judge to vote a team down for clipping cards had they not clipped cards. No offense to you, but it appears as though you're making it seem like there was no question about an issue of cheating, and Dan and Eli had no basis for their claim. I'm not calling your team a bunch of cheaters or anything, but I do trust that Dan would not bring up this issue unless he was confident of it.

 

Standing over shoulders and pressing debaters on the issue of card-clipping is not cronyism. It is re-leveling the playing field for individuals (not teams or schools) who feel the need to clip cards.

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I think that Dan's last response more than enough answers the thesis of your post. When he said we should "give them the benefit of the doubt", he decided that he wasn't really as confident as you say he is.

 

 

when dan said that he gave grace and billy the benefit of the doubt, it seems that he did not mean he had lost confidence in his claims; rather, he, like most of us reading this thread, have gotten sick and tired of all the bickering and wanted a quick and easy way to end it. now please, stop. the round's done, the tournament's over, nothing can be done about it. drop it.

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ooh, i'm shivering--the horror of the "anonymous" neg rep.

to answer your question, i care because i, like natalie, am good friends with dan and know that he would not accuse someone of clipping cards unless he was 100% sure that they actually did clip cards.

 

i honestly don't care what action you take in response to this--try neg repping me again, secretly curse me in your head, whatever suits you. i don't care. if you want to get into a debate on it, fine--bring it on.

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james and evin read the same strat alex and andrew read in semis

 

t assistance monetary

 

farm bill politix - bush subsidies veto key to solve poverty

 

cp us economically sanction china - collapses world econ causes global revolution and chinese socialist rise

 

loooooooots of arvs case turns - causes aids, gets diverted, several mutation scenarios, causes diarhea (sp?), etc.

 

 

was the aff just kinkaid's patents one?

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Uhm, i didn't neg rep you. I have red myself, it would have turned gray. :)

 

 

I have no hard feeling toward any of you guys. If I was you, I'd probably suspect them too. You guys have every right to look over people's shoulders, but I doubt you will every be able to prove any cheating (they had their 1AC timed before, and had an extra 10 seconds left afterwards in the round.)

 

I realy agree that this should stop. If you have any concerns, you can pm me.

 

Andrew

 

i never said that you did, and honestly i didn't think it was you--i had someone else in mind. the response was directed to the text of the rep comment, so that whoever did do it can read it. sorry if you thought i was accusing you.

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ooh, i'm shivering--the horror of the "anonymous" neg rep.

to answer your question, i care because i, like natalie, am good friends with dan and know that he would not accuse someone of clipping cards unless he was 100% sure that they actually did clip cards.

 

i honestly don't care what action you take in response to this--try neg repping me again, secretly curse me in your head, whatever suits you. i don't care. if you want to get into a debate on it, fine--bring it on.

 

ZOMG!!1!1! Avi is mocking the rep system....what will happen to cross-x.com?!?!?! It will be destroyed!!1!1111!

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I made an error in judgement in bringing up an issue on cross-x.com that should have been brought up with coaching staff. For that I apologize. When I said we need to give clear lake the benefit of the doubt on this one, it was not meant to be an indicator either way of my confidence in my original accusation. Just a concession that it is pointless to continue discussing it. As far as irreparable damage to clear lake's credibility, etc, i think the community is smarter than that. People read over other's shoulders, etc all the time. Clear Lake has a long history of success; one that is obviously still continuing, given their success at TFA state.

 

I hope there are no more hard feelings between any members of the Clear Lake Coaching staff of Debate team and myself or anyone else from my squad. If anything else needs to be done to repair that damage, let me know.

 

rowedan@gmail.com

 

dan

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Dan did tell his coach, who then went on a tirade in an attempt to not only get the loss changed to a win, but DQ that clear lake team from competition for blatantly cheating. Even if I didn't know Dan as a great upstanding guy with a penchant for good humor, I would trust his allegations because people don't make card clipping claims absent proof. Meanwhile, people DO desperately try to keep up their image with ad hom attacks in an attempt to garner some "offense" in the accusations debate (go cry some tears about Dan hurting the otherwise perfect and prestigious image of clear lake as the best debate school in the nation. Maybe you should start by removing lawlrus from this website?). If there was absolute confidence in a lack of clipping...wouldn't you just be able to let it go and move on?

 

I can state that in my round against another clear lake team there was no question of clipping, so it's not something that can be said about an entire squad, but that doesn't mean everyone on said squad is perfect.

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It seems as though to the debate community you are the shining beacon of light that always tells the truth. You have done irreparable damage to the rep of clear lake by being a freaking sore loser and finding a way to make the team that beat you pay. Seriously realize what you did and tell your little friends who blindly believe you the truth buddy. If Grace was really clipping you would have told your coach like a man instead of launching a smear campaign because you are sad you didnt break

 

it seems that you need to work on reading everything that is said chatura--dan pretty clearly inserted an apology in there and what you've just said only serves to further the "irreparable damage" to your school's rep by making people think that all you want to do is keep this battle going instead of accepting the apology and moving on.

 

if you think that not breaking is so devastating that someone would start a smear campaign, then why hasn't yours started yet? or those of the 70 or so other teams that didn't break?

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Seriously realize what you did and tell your little friends who blindly believe you the truth buddy.

Little friends? Have you seen Steven Murray?

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Let Dan fight his battles man. It's basically Clear Lake vs. Rowe. And the seventy other teams that didn't break prolly have some humility that Dan is apparently very much lacking.

 

Dan obviously is trying to end this drama. I would advise you to stop embarrassing yourself.

 

Making below-the-belt accusations on not just his in-round choices, but his character, is absolutely ridiculous. Beside the fact that you are just wrong, the Austin debate community is very close, and you will regret talking shit.

 

This issue isn't Clear Lake vs. Rowe - it's a discussion that should remain between the person in question and the person doing the questioning. Assuming that it is your entire school's drama is assuming that your entire school clips cards. The problem is (hopefully) one that is indicative of a flaw in one debater's character, not a team's strategy.

 

Stop insulting Dan. He's been civil, and the only time anyone else gets involved is when people like you (and much of your team) attempts to "get back" at him through unfair and unfounded claims.

 

Unless you clip cards too, this has nothing to do with you - the only reason why Avi, Murray, others, and I have gotten involved is because some have decided to take this beyond the round. If you have a problem with Dan's personality or choices, I'm sure he'd be happy to talk to you - try emailing him instead of talking trash on a public forum.

 

Stop posting.

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Ive got an idea. We'll be at UIL state - If you are convinced that grace cut cards, I think she'll be happy to read the entire 1ac that was read in that round. Ask Dan for his flows so you know the same cards are being read. If she really did cut up to 5 cards (the accusations have varied widely) and up to 75% of them then there is no way she would be able to read it in time. Otherwise the accusations hold no water no matter who says them.

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About the "card clipping" allegation:

 

1. Clear Lake people need to stop posting. It's embarrassing. We know what happened and didn't happen. There is no need to convince anyone. Those who are posting who were not in the round have no basis to make any judgments about the truth or falsity of the accusations. It is stupidity such as the statement that our reputation has been "irreparably damaged" that leads coaches to forbid students on their squad from posting on cross-x.com. Grow up. Continuing a cat fight isn't going to help anything.

 

2. The defamation that has been published on this site needs to stop. Rushing to defend a friend who makes an accusation when you yourself were not there does nothing to help anyone. There is nothing to be gained from any further discussion of this matter.

 

3. Dan and I spoke about this, it's done, it's over. Dan Rowe is a class act. Everyone needs to hush about this.

 

Martin Klein

Clear Lake High School

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People read over other's shoulders, etc all the time.

some westlake debaters don't due to height constraints. you know who you are.

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I'm gonna have to agree with Mr. Klein on this one.

 

If anyone wants to talk to me about this, IM me at ericwright89.

 

I'd really like to resolve any outstanding problems before UIL state.

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