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JohnnyD

PHSSL Quals

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We made our presence known. It's a fact. We've been over this, and I was caught up in a moment of happiness that we made it as far as we did. Still, it's a valid point that in the district 6 competition we did all right.

 

Now, let's move on. Congrats to La Salle/Cath Prep/P-bury!

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\] i'll be back at pennsbury and hopefully you can prove to me that i am wrong there. i'll be one of the judges in the final round.

 

Okay. So there's no point to any new schools sending teams and judges to pennsbury because if you're not one of the "in crowd" you don't get to judge finals?

 

I find it highly suspicious that PFI has already handpicked their finals judges before finding out who is coming next year.

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Well, there is nothing written in stone, but I ask that Jeff not put me in semis and sometimes not quarters so that I am clean for finals. And generally, it works out that I am one of the few clean judges. Jeff never guaranteed me the final round... but the statistics work heavily in my favor. Sometimes, it doesnt, as it hasnt worked in my favor at states (though I did judge finals there 3x or 4x), Villiger (though I did judge finals there ~3x) and CFL Nationals (where I have only judged through semis). But those tournaments have much larger judging pools with clean judges, so the statistical probability doesnt work as heavily in my favor. And I have been out of school for ten years now, so you're looking at what? 30-40% finals round rate? Not out-of-line with what you might expect all things considered.

 

Since I never have any policy teams competing and I have no dog in any fight (I equally assist all teams who approach me for help regardless of their school, district, or state), it is not entirely undesirable to have me in final round. However, if you have a problem with my judging final round were you (if you are a debater) or your teams (if you are a coach) were competing in finals, I will be happy to give up my ballot. Fair enough?

 

 

But lets pretend that Jeff did come out here right now and promise me that I get final round next year. Would that be so terrible?

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But lets pretend that Jeff did come out here right now and promise me that I get final round next year. Would that be so terrible?

If by some prayer we make the finals, as long as you don't come up to us and tell us that we were "awful" right after the debate or vote us down because we didn't argue Significance (both Bob Michaelski at Shik) it's all good.

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I never tell teams that they were awful... though I might say that a particular argument, question in cross-x, strategy was atrocious. But if thats the case, I always give a very well warranted ballot and RFD as well as suggestions for improvement. I specifically stay away from suggestions which are 'controversial' depending on the judge and stick with suggestions on the actual argument development to make your skills improve.

 

I may act the part of a meanie on cross-x, but I have rarely had any complaints about my judging and the few complaints I received were a product of a hypercompetitive environment and had nothing to do with my decision save one instance.

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Okay. So there's no point to any new schools sending teams and judges to pennsbury because if you're not one of the "in crowd" you don't get to judge finals?

 

I find it highly suspicious that PFI has already handpicked their finals judges before finding out who is coming next year.

Obviously you don't know me, so I'll try not to take that as an insult. Don't dare question my integrity.

 

Ankur judges a lot of my final rounds because 1) he stays for the whole tournament, 2) he is not affiliated with any teams, and 3) he is well regarded as one of the fixtures of Philly-area debate. He also, as he said, gives well warranted decisions - not always what other people agree with, or what the debaters wanted to hear, but always supported and defended. Clearly, I can't promise him anything, because he might not be clean for the round.

 

Besides that, this has no relation on new teams coming to Pennsbury, because I don't choose the teams that make it to finals, you win rounds. Ankur doesn't judge every prelim debate and our pool is always diverse.

 

Besides that, there are three judges in the final round. I always try for some regional diversity. Also, most judges don't see it as a reward to judge finals, so it isn't like there are lots of people clamoring for it but I like Ankur better because he is part of the "in crowd."

 

Give me a break. You have a right to be angry about the way some things were phrased in response to the original post of this thread. You can be pissed at Ankur all you want. Let's draw the line at implying that judges or tournaments are stacking the deck in favor of the "in crowd."

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I wasn't questioning your integrity. Sorry if it came across that way.

 

I was trying to teach ankur a lesson about how he comes across.

 

I was trying to make you aware that ankur was declaring in February that he considers your final next January HIS to judge.

 

But, hey, if your judging pool is so limited or your definition of a good judge is so narrowly defined that you can guarantee Ankur a spot judging a final round, than why bother showing up for the debate?

 

Why should kids from schools in the middle districts even bother trying to show up at your tournament when we already know how one of the final round judges feels about us?

 

I hope you get what I'm saying and I hope you realize how Ankur has blown his credibility as a judge with his behavior in this matter.

 

Again, it's not your credibility that I'm questioning. But, if you choose to use Ankur in your final round, realize that you're endorsing his attitude and asking us middle district folks to overlook his insults to us.

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I wasn't questioning your integrity. Sorry if it came across that way.

 

I was trying to teach ankur a lesson about how he comes across.

 

I was trying to make you aware that ankur was declaring in February that he considers your final next January HIS to judge.

 

But, hey, if your judging pool is so limited or your definition of a good judge is so narrowly defined that you can guarantee Ankur a spot judging a final round, than why bother showing up for the debate?

 

Why should kids from schools in the middle districts even bother trying to show up at your tournament when we already know how one of the final round judges feels about us?

 

I hope you get what I'm saying and I hope you realize how Ankur has blown his credibility as a judge with his behavior in this matter.

 

Again, it's not your credibility that I'm questioning. But, if you choose to use Ankur in your final round, realize that you're endorsing his attitude and asking us middle district folks to overlook his insults to us.

 

Yeah, why even bother attending a tournament when there's the offchance that if I make it to the finals it is quite possible that I will be judged by someone who doesn't like me solely because I got in a silly fight with them on an internet forum?

 

On that note, does this mean that a tournament "endorses the attitude" of everyone that judges there?

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Of course a tournament doesn't have to endorse the attitudes of all of their judges.

 

But, when someone throws down the gauntlet like ankur has done and declared that he will be judging the final policy round in not quite a year, it cries out for a response.

 

It doesn't matter. I'm not part of their boys club and I could care less who judges the final round. I just was hoping that Jeff would put ankur in his place.

 

It just irked me to see Ankur dangling his judging a final round next year in front of John, a kid who wants to go to that tournament so badly. It is just asking for John to start kissing Ankur's butt in the off chance that he makes it next year.

 

I have a valid point, but no one really wants to read it because I don't matter since I'm in the middle districts.

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Okay, now you are just starting to annoy me.

 

First, you have NO idea what I think of central pennsylvania debate or any other debate, so stop pretending like you are in my head. I think the entire state of PA sucks pretty much equally with the exception of Cath Prep. I have seen nothing this year to make me think otherwise. I dont need to judge every team in the state to be able to pass a generalization on the state of debate in PA.

 

 

 

 

Second, at no point did I degrade central PA debate. Here are direct quotes on the thread:

 

you people are bragging about placing in phssl districts in districts where there are what? two? three schools competing? right......

 

you're just making penna debate look worse than the total bad-ness that it already is.

 

No reference to central pennsylvania.

 

well, thats pretty much what i was saying.

 

see, if you want to say something like:

 

last year - won nothing

this year - won phssl districts

next year - we'll win everything!

betta watch out!

 

thats funny. its not bragging. its just funny. but the two of you are orally brawling over phhsl quals - a tournament most certainly plagued by poor judging at best and random judging at worst. i am sorry, but in NO district is phssl quals difficult by any means.

 

i'm happy that you are finding success in your corner of the PA woods. but these days, success in PA doesnt mean a whole lot. pretty much the only policy team in PA with any level of success this year is the perennial cath prep teams. everyone else wallows in mediocrity or worse. its just reality.

 

if you want to change my opinion on these things, you'll have your shot in just under a year. i'll be back at pennsbury and hopefully you can prove to me that i am wrong there. i'll be one of the judges in the final round.

 

Again, no criticism of central PA. In fact, I specifically state otherwise - NO district in phssl is difficult.

 

good luck at states. hopefully we see you at pennsbury next year and you can prove us wrong. afterall, its not like we want to be right...

 

Nothing so terrible there. Its called giving someone a challenge. I am challenging John to work hard and shove it in the faces of everyone who thinks he (and central PA) cant do it.

 

So, for the love of god stop making things up. I havent criticized central PA any more than the rest of PA. Unless somehow everything not-Cath Prep = central PA? I mean seriously now. You are making up connotations which do not exist in my speech.

 

 

 

 

Third, in my saying "I'll see you in finals" it wasnt a comment designed to say 'ha ha you wont be there' it was a bit of a challenge to John saying 'Work hard and you can convince people that you're good. Make it to finals and you will earn respect.' It was further clarified by the statement where I said that its not like we want to be right. Becuase... we dont. We dont want to be right that PA debate sucks, but we are realists. We travel outside the state and we know what good debate is. we have seen the downward spiral that is PA debate. We have seen PA glory days and the current not-so-glory-days. It would appear John took the challenge in a positive light when his reponse was And I hope I can prove you wrong... we'll be working our butts off for next year, believe me.

 

 

 

 

 

Fourth, if you can find anyone on this planet who has EVER seen me judge a round based on reputation, location, or any other tainted characteristic, I'll pay you a hundred bucks. But I can go spend that money because I know tainted judging on my part doesnt exist. My integrity as a judge has NEVER been compromised. And to drive that point home, I might be the only flow judge in the state who has voted on topicality, inherency, significance, solvency, harms, speed critique and funding specification. If you make a better argument than the other team, you win. Plain and simple. I have ZERO problems dropping the 'popular' teams if they legitimately lose the round. You can ask Colin Esgro if I ever dropped him at VFNFL quals and on what (his answer will be yes and solvency). And you can also know that I have dropped the NFL national champions (Stacey Nathan and Michael Klinger). As well as a number of teams with TOC bids. I have dropped teams running MY arguments that I personally wrote and distributed. It doesnt get any more 'neutral' than that. And if John were to bother trying to kiss my butt I would tell him to stop. I dont appreciate teams kissing butt. I never have. Mostly because I refuse to allow that to even appear like it would curry favor with my decisions. But of course since you think thats what is necessary for my ballot, it is quite clear that you have no idea who I am, what my paradigm is and how I judge. So stop talking about my judging abilities when you dont know me.

 

 

 

 

FIFTH AND FINALLY - you completely ignore my last post in which I openly state that if you are competing (if you are a student) or you have a team competing (if you are a debater) in a round which I am judging and you do not wish me to judge the round, I will return my ballot to the tab room. I wont cause a fuss. I wont angrily demand explanations. I will politely tell Jeff that the team/coach has asked I not judge that round for personal reasons and I would like to be reassigned if possible. IT DOESNT GET ANY BETTER THAN THAT. I also explain very rationally why I get final rounds - because I am one of the few clean judges in the pool of judges. Since I request off the rounds immediately prior, I am clean for finals and it works well because other schools may want to go home, most judges dont WANT to judge the way that I love judging (and moreso with respect to final round), and it helps that I am a good judge.

 

 

 

You're barking up the wrong tree. If you want to challenge my integrity as a judge and say "Ive blown all credibility" you have better have some serious smoking gun regarding my actual decisions in debate because I take this accusation very seriously. At the very least you owe me the courtesy of your name. I'll also graciously accept an apology.

 

 

 

 

And does anyone else here find irony in that a Perk debater is being accused of elitism and an 'old boys club'? I find this rather comical.

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Of course a tournament doesn't have to endorse the attitudes of all of their judges.

 

But, when someone throws down the gauntlet like ankur has done and declared that he will be judging the final policy round in not quite a year, it cries out for a response.

 

It doesn't matter. I'm not part of their boys club and I could care less who judges the final round. I just was hoping that Jeff would put ankur in his place.

 

It just irked me to see Ankur dangling his judging a final round next year in front of John, a kid who wants to go to that tournament so badly. It is just asking for John to start kissing Ankur's butt in the off chance that he makes it next year.

 

I have a valid point, but no one really wants to read it because I don't matter since I'm in the middle districts.

Dude calm down. I highly doubt that Ankur has any predisposed notions about you (In fact, Ankur has perhaps one of the LEAST interventionist paradigms out there. If anything, we should be arguing about whether that is a good thing!)

 

I would also encourage you to read the archives of this forum for the past five years or so, and understand the history behind this kind of discussion. It isn't the old boys club by any means. In fact, the people on this forum have outright rejected the old boys club that had existed. What school do you go to by the way?

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HI, I don't always agree with Ankur..and I sometimes find his approach to debate to be contrary to mine..but I will defend his integrity to my last breath. He's one of the few judges I know that truly doesn't care who's in the front of the room - he judges fairly, and takes a lot of time on his ballots! I might tease him, or say I'd strike him - but he knows that's not true..he can judge my final round anytime. H.

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I've seen you judge, I've read your ballots, I've spoken with you at Valley Forge. You're a pompous ass who's disdain for everything and everyone who doesn't worship you makes a mockery of everything the judges and coaches in the area are trying to do.

 

Think for one second about the novice debaters that are reading this and what message you're sending to them by saying "PA debate sucks." Think about how much harder you're making it for the coaches to get them confident and hard working when they see an adult judge saying that.

 

A judge and a coach are NOT simply graduated debaters. We have a responsibility beyond just being experts at debate. "PA debate sucks" should never be said in a public place around our kids, especially when you have to judge them!!!

 

So forgive me for not apologizing. I think you owe everyone in PA that you trashed an apology.

 

And, unlike you, I choose not to identify myself or my school for a very good reason. I have to judge dozens of rounds every year, and I have debaters who read this forum. I don't want the kids I'm judging or coaching to feel as if I'm their buddy or their pal. Nor do I want to risk having anyone kiss up to me or worry about offending me.

 

You're an adult, Ankur. Demonstrate that by refraining from making comments that betray a bias. You may be able to check your biases at the door, but that's only half the battle. You aren't in the judges' lounge when you're in this forum. You're in a room with 14 and 15 year old impressionable kids who hero-worship you. Keep that in mind next time you put down a kid who is proud of his accomplishments at districts.

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I'm not sure that Ankur was dissing some kid's accomplishment, as much as he was telling the kid to keep that accomplishment in perspective. You know, keeping it real as the saying goes.

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First, none of that changes the fact that you openly challenged my credibility and accused me of judging with bias when you say:

Why should kids from schools in the middle districts even bother trying to show up at your tournament when we already know how one of the final round judges feels about us?

and followed it up with:

It is just asking for John to start kissing Ankur's butt in the off chance that he makes it next year.

 

The implications of those statements taken individually or as a pair with the second one qualifying the first openly accuses me of unethical judging. You have provided exactly ZERO warrants for such a weighty accusation. If you have nothing to substantiate your claim then you are OBLIGATED to offer an apology to that end and to that end alone.

 

You talk about setting an example, so is your example to accuse judges of bias without any proof when the judge clearly does not have any? You think thats a positive example for students? Is this what you tell your students? That they lose because the judges are biased and win because they are good debaters?

 

You dont even have the decency to acknowledge my willingness to give up my ballot if the team/coach perceived any bias on my part. In fact, if you never want me to judge your students, thats fine by me. I consider it a loss for your students, but if you consider it a gain, I will respect that opinion for what it is. How is that not the supreme demonstration of integrity in judging? That I would rather NOT judge than be even perceived as being biased?

 

You owe me one of two things: proof of bias or an apology for unfounded accustation.

Its not a terribly unreasonable or difficult demand.

If you have any ounce of respect for the institution of debate which depends on unbiased judging, you will give me one of those two.

 

 

 

 

 

Second, you changed your tune. From accusing me of degrading central PA you have finally accepted that I did no such thing (because if anything I degraded the entire state). So now you are coming at me with a new standard of behavior which has nothing to do with the first. Dont think that your inability to admit you were wrong means that I overlooked your shifting arguments.

 

 

 

 

 

Third, this is all going to come down to one thing, which it usually always does. I dont believe that students should be told that their performance in round was good if it wasnt. You might believe that coddling students is the best policy, but I dont. Debaters are future leaders and leaders need to learn to handle criticism.

There are a number of debaters who have accused me of being overly harsh over the years, and yet for some reason, after they graduate, the overwhelming majority have privately contacted me and said that my comments made them motivated enough to kick it up another notch or two and work harder for their wins while correcting the mistakes they made. They often questioned my technique, but never denied that it produces positive results.

And if you are ever wondering why some teams seem to win more than others, maybe, just maybe its because the coaches of those teams encourage their debaters to talk to their judges outside the rounds and seek the judge's opinions on how to improve. For example, Gritz came up to me after Pennsbury and asked me about the fine art of case debate. I was more than happy to sit down with him while the assembly was going on and teach him some nuggets of info on how to improve on case debate. I hope that he learned something positive from my explanations and examples and I hope he learns to use it in his rounds. I generally put my email address at the bottom of most of my ballots (unless I just forget or am being hounded by the tab room to turn in my ballot) so that students can contact me after the tournament if they have any questions.

Of course, if I didnt maintain a degree of familiarity with students, they would probably not have the courage to talk to me in the same way that as a debater I never talked to judges who were aloof and preferred to stay away from debaters.

I am very results oriented. I want to make a better debater. I believe my techniques work, and I would agree in some select few instances, my techniques have failed to produce results. But no technique is without flaw. If I were to be convinced that my technique is failing to accomplish my goals of improving PA debate, then I would change tactics and go about things in a different way. But quite honestly, as long as students keep telling me that my comments, however harsh, were effective motivators, then isnt my technique still successful? So to that end, I have no problems telling the entire state of PA that their debate is often mediocre or worse. Its reality. It is what it is. If you think that PA debate is so grand, care to give me reasons for that? Because from our experience here, you are high on rhetoric and low on warrants. That doesnt make for good debate so if thats what you teach your debaters, you should think twice about your techniques.

If you want to question my techniques, go right ahead. You wont be first and you certainly wont be the last. But I can justify my methods. You, on the other hand, are in a serious habit of making unfounded accusations and are questioning my integrity.

 

 

 

 

 

Fourth, I wasnt putting down the accomplishment. That is clarified by my statement when I say:

i'm happy that you are finding success in your corner of the PA woods.

My telling a student to keep their successes in perspective is NOT the same as putting them down. You are still creating connotations which do not exist in my words. You are deliberately choosing to interpret my words negatively when I am telling you otherwise. Please do me, and the world of debate, the courtesy of accepting some things at face value.

 

 

 

 

 

Fifth, you can identify yourself to me privately and that would be fine. It meets both goals - let me know who my accuser is and keeps you private from the cross-x.com audience. I promise here and now that I will not divulge your identity to ANYONE - coach or student. On my integrity, I promise that.

There are many ways by which you can identify yourself to me. Email, private messages on here, instant message, and chances are if you say you know me this well, you might have my cell phone number too (sorry, I dont have a house number).

 

 

 

 

Lastly, I dont consider myself overly important to PA debate. I'd like to think I have had a positive impact on PA debate over the years, and you are free to disagree with that if you wish. And I may have my moments of mouthiness... but quite honestly there are many who came before me that have had a much more significant impact.... and some who came after. Like Jeff.

 

 

 

 

 

And to John and all the other central PA debaters -

If my words somehow discouraged you, I apologize to you. I am just requesting that you keep things in perspective. I am happy that some of you are finding success in your region of PA debate and you should be proud of your accomplishments regardless of magnitude, but I wish so much more for you. I believe that if you work hard and venture out into the rest of the state and/or region, you will have an opportunity to find success on a much broader scale.

If there is one lesson I can teach you it is this:

I encourage all of you to approach your judges because your judges are the people who ultimately determine your victories or defeatsGet to know your judges and their likes/dislikes. Ask them what you could have done to win the round. If you dont like their answer (i.e. 'you didnt argue significance') then dig a bit deeper - ask them questions like "Do you requrie debaters to argue significance to win the round or that debaters must argue over ALL stock issues?" Asking the right questions will take you far because even if you disagree with the judge (i.e. saying you need to argue significance to win) you will then be armed with a more complete view of the judge's paradigm and will be able to adjust your arguments the next time you have that judge.

And if you have judges in the state who are willing to work with you regardless of who you are (myself or ANYONE else who is equally willing), then for the love of god, dont shy away from contacting that person. It could be for something complex like helping you develop a strategy or even something so simple as asking them to look over your disad shell and critique just the disad. Since Pennsylvania doesnt have the same resources as most other states (like a strong college program & smattering of debate camps), you should use what resources you have at your disposal.

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I haven't talked to Mike in awhile....so I'm not sure if Conestoga is still active or what is going on in District 10 in general. Unionville may have the only CX team in 10.

I'm not actively involved with the Conestoga program. I completed my "four-year program" for establishing a team culture and some momentum, and had to move on to other things.

 

The team, though, remains active and hardworking despite graduating most of its more known debaters (and speechies) over the last two years. Conestoga secured District 10's two debate slots to states last week.

 

drum roll please.............

 

we will not be repeating as State champs this year.

 

The qualifiers are:

 

Pennsbury A Gritz/Linder

 

<and>

 

Pennsbury B Kolander/Gopal

Wow. Congrats to Pennsbury, and my condolences to Truman.

 

This once again illustrates my beef with the PHSSL big wigs. In their infinite wisdom, they (and "they" consist mostly of non-debate folks) shredded CX in half and brought in Probably Failed Debate.

 

Sure, CX has been in decline. Sure, there are teams at states who are lambs to the slaughter. But axing half the field doesn't necessarily mean the cream rises to the top. In competitive districts, perennial powerhouses leave one (or both) of their teams at home. Meanwhile, there are districts where debate is so consistantly bad -- and I agree with much of the analysis Ankur, Shawn, etc. have put forth on the causes of this decay -- where several incompetent programs debate at a pre-novice level and someone has to stumble to victory (usually on the basis of ballots signed by unqualified judges).

 

Some of these teams come on here and brag about their "achievement" in these districts, (I won't name names) to then go 1-3 at States.

 

Conestoga has owned its relatively poor district (going 24-2 at districts over the last five years, taking the top two spots each time), but good teams have still been squeezed. Harriton's Che/Rosen was, in my opinion, one of the top 5 teams in Pennsylvania their senior year. They didn't make it to states. Conestoga's young guns caught them by surprise and had a superb case block scripted and ready to go. Other Harriton teams have been competitive throughout the years and didn't qualify. Unionville has a strong program. Without naming names, there are always three, four, or more schools who consistently show up at states with teams that would lose hands down to the non-qualifying Unionville, Harriton, Truman, Pennsbury, Meyers, Jenkintown, the list goes on and on, teams.

 

PA debate has many problems, but PHSSL is one of them. It's a disgrace that quality programs leave debaters at home because they happen to be geographically close to other quality programs, while other schools from the boonies send unprepared cannon fodder to Susquehanna. I try not to blast dedicated educators. Even a half-assed debate coach is doing a service. But for years some established coaches and programs have been doing it half-assed, and hurting their students, districts, and the state as a whole.

 

And PHSSL doesn't address it. In my eyes, PHSSL isn't a legitimate state championship. I would celebate the day when the dedicated debate coaches (many of whom are on this thread) of Pennsylvania either seize control of PHSSL altogether, or secede and form an organization/tournament/whatever committed to revitalizing debate in the Keystone State.

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I'm aware that if I say anything in defense of Ankur it'd be viewed as "butt kissing" but I'm sorry, wannabecoach, I took Ankur's words as a fun challenge. I want to make that final at PFI more than I did before I talked to him. There is no doubt in my mind from what I've seen he'd be a good judge and he'd tell me what I did wrong and what I did right. Believe me, I need that. If I'm to try and help M-burg back we need all the constructive criticism on the planet.

 

Some of these teams come on here and brag about their "achievement" in these districts, (I won't name names) to then go 1-3 at States.

Lee Kennedy-Shaffer and Jen Dandy are good debaters. I have full confidence they'll do well. And we've went over the "brag" vs. being proud of one's school issue already about a hundred times, but that was written in excitement after we won our district after a few years of winning nothing. Big deal.

 

Anyway, Truman, that really, really sucks. There are bad judges, there are awful judges, and then there are PHSSL judges. I learned this firsthand in our debate against Boiling Springs. It wasn't even close, they didn't put dates on their evidence, at the end of the debate they even told me I won, and then the ballot comes in with a Neg victory and we went 2-1 instead of 3-0. But what can you do?

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You're an adult, Ankur. Demonstrate that

 

Thats funny coming from someone insulting him anonymously.

 

You have obviously no experience in tab. A judge who is not affiliated with a team who is also experienced & well-respected is a rare commodity. Especially in our neck of the woods. What he stated is no different then me saying that I WILL be in deep break rounds at states because I am an experienced judge who MORE IMPORTANTLY will have no horse to back in the race. This inferiority complex or chip on your shoulder or whatever you want to call it is leading you to seriously project.

 

Ankur has done more for PA debate then you realize. Half of the CX schools in our state have been coached during tournaments and/or have run his evidence. He has always been very generous with his time and effort for all students. Brett makes an excellent point in that you need to take his posts in context with the thousands of posts he has made in these forums. I, like Duane, have disagreed with Ankur on the minutia of the event but I have never once doubted his sincerity or integrity.

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I'm not actively involved with the Conestoga program.

 

Sorry to hear that Mike. I hope the Conestoga guys find a coach though. It's really tough to keep a program going on student effort alone.

 

Wow. Congrats to Pennsbury, and my condolences to Truman.

This once again illustrates my beef with the PHSSL big wigs. In their infinite wisdom, they (and "they" consist mostly of non-debate folks) shredded CX in half and brought in Probably Failed Debate.

 

I am OK with the halving the CX registration. District 12 is the ONLY district that could support 4 CX slots with the quality of the competition. Every other district is either CX challenged or only has one competitive program....just think about your 'cannon fodder' comment. If they still hade 4 slots you would double the cannon fodder.

 

Plus many of the PHSSL board do have debate experience....they just disagree with where modern debate is right now. I think they are wrong, but they do have experience.

 

PA debate has many problems, but PHSSL is one of them. <...> In my eyes, PHSSL isn't a legitimate state championship. I would celebate the day when the dedicated debate coaches (many of whom are on this thread) of Pennsylvania either seize control of PHSSL altogether, or secede and form an organization/tournament/whatever committed to revitalizing debate in the Keystone State.

 

This is not entirely fair. In my little corner of the state, the richest school districts in the Philly area (and indeed in the state) are in Montgomery & Bucks Counties, yet they are almost non-existent within the debate world. 3/4 of them do not have programs at all and most of those that do have 'clubs' with absolute threadbare funding. PHSSL can't make school districts fund a program and that is the biggest program.

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I appreciate everyone's support. I really do. But the last thing I want is to give this lady some other reason to believe that some sort of secret debate society exists to watch my back. We all know there isnt an old boys club, but I dont want her to get even the slightest impression of one.

 

I'd really appreciate her answering my requests and would like others to stop posting on this matter until then.

 

Thanks

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I appreciate everyone's support. I really do. But the last thing I want is to give this lady some other reason to believe that some sort of secret debate society exists to watch my back. We all know there isnt an old boys club, but I dont want her to get even the slightest impression of one.

 

I'd really appreciate her answering my requests and would like others to stop posting on this matter until then.

 

Thanks

 

 

Ok....I'll see you Monday night at the meeting of the Society of Debate SuperFriends .....err oops it's a secret.....nevermind.

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As an update:

 

I still have not yet received an email or any other comminucation containing identification or an apology for defamation of character.

 

At this point, seeing that she has posted on another thread since my last substantive post, I am guessing I shall receive neither.

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Are you talking about wannabecoach, Ankur? He's a dude.

 

not according to this thread

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