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rcbaldwin11

northwestern vs. michigan

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i am going to be a sophmore, and am thinking about either going to classic at michigan or zarefsky's at NU. does anyone have any opinions

on which would better or personal expirience with both?

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zarefsky's is probably better than Mich Classic, though Mich 7 would be comparable.

 

I've heard some rumors that Z's is losing all of its good lab leaders this year, don't quote me tho

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i am going to be a sophmore, and am thinking about either going to classic at michigan or zarefsky's at NU. does anyone have any opinions

on which would better or personal expirience with both?

 

I work at the Classic for Sophomores, and have worked at the Northwestern sophomore camp. I want to give you some information about Michigan. In no way am I implying anything negative about Northwestern - I am just giving information about UM because I work there.

 

Michigan Classic for Sophomores is a pretty strong program. We have a lot of experience - we have run a separate sophomore program since 1996 and know how to adapt a larger institute experience to sophomore needs. Michigan has a substantial number of introductory topic lectures and skills lectures, and the sophomores have traditionally augmented these lectures with small classes to focus on our own specific issues. Most of the practice rounds prior to the tournament will be within sophomores.

 

At the same time, sophomores participate in the larger institute. Each lab writes a shared aff and neg file, and the sophomores contribute as much to this shared set of evidence as any other lab. Sophomore lab leaders generally practice pretty tight quality control to make sure that it is up to the Junior and Senior standards. Sophomores have some practice rounds against Classic Juniors and Seniors, and in the Institute tournament, sophomores compete against all the Michigan students, including Seven Week students. So there is a coordinated effort to make sure that the camp experience is tailored to sophomores without isolating them from the rest of the camp.

 

The lab leaders at Classic for Sophomores are excellent - they are primarily High School coaches and college people with experience teaching high school sophomores. I am teaching with Dana Randall from Carrolton Sacred Heart, who I have worked with before and am very excited about. James Herndon from Chattahoochee is returning with Ed Lee, and Christina Tallungen from North is returning with Eric Forslund from Damien. Almost all of us have worked in the Classic for Sophomores for several years, we work well together, and we all have had success coaching some of the best high school teams in the nation. The point of this is that there is no "top" sophomore lab and there is no "lower" lab - no matter which lab you are placed in, across all three labs, you will have excellent lab leaders and some of the best sophomore debaters in the country.

 

Michigan, as a whole, focuses on the topic, strategy and research skills. We are much more than "an evidence mill" - the argument and evidence set produced by Michigan is important to defining the scope and direction of the topic for the year as a whole. You will walk away with more than just a large set of evidence - you will learn How to produce that evidence, write quality blocks, organize files properly and how to become self sufficient in evidence production for your team. All camps have different things that they emphasize. Some camps focus on Speaking Skills, some focus on specific arguments, and some focus on Debate theory. Our camp focuses on the Topic and on Research skills - that doesn't mean that we ignore speaking skills or kritiks or the theory, just that our Emphasis is on Topic Evidence. If that is what you are looking for, Michigan Classic would be an outstanding camp for you.

 

If you have anymore questions about Michigan Classic for Sophomores, please ask, because I have worked there for 11 years.

 

Tim Alderete

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zarefsky's is probably better than Mich Classic, though Mich 7 would be comparable.

 

I've heard some rumors that Z's is losing all of its good lab leaders this year, don't quote me tho

Thats what I heard also, but I heard again from someone more reliable that dan fitzmier would be teaching the seniors along with someone else really good..lundy might be there again hopefully too.

 

Sorry I quoted you on that :P

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I work at the Classic for Sophomores, and have worked at the Northwestern sophomore camp. I want to give you some information about Michigan. In no way am I implying anything negative about Northwestern - I am just giving information about UM because I work there.

 

Michigan Classic for Sophomores is a pretty strong program. We have a lot of experience - we have run a separate sophomore program since 1996 and know how to adapt a larger institute experience to sophomore needs. Michigan has a substantial number of introductory topic lectures and skills lectures, and the sophomores have traditionally augmented these lectures with small classes to focus on our own specific issues. Most of the practice rounds prior to the tournament will be within sophomores.

 

At the same time, sophomores participate in the larger institute. Each lab writes a shared aff and neg file, and the sophomores contribute as much to this shared set of evidence as any other lab. Sophomore lab leaders generally practice pretty tight quality control to make sure that it is up to the Junior and Senior standards. Sophomores have some practice rounds against Classic Juniors and Seniors, and in the Institute tournament, sophomores compete against all the Michigan students, including Seven Week students. So there is a coordinated effort to make sure that the camp experience is tailored to sophomores without isolating them from the rest of the camp.

 

The lab leaders at Classic for Sophomores are excellent - they are primarily High School coaches and college people with experience teaching high school sophomores. I am teaching with Dana Randall from Carrolton Sacred Heart, who I have worked with before and am very excited about. James Herndon from Chattahoochee is returning with Ed Lee, and Christina Tallungen from North is returning with Eric Forslund from Damien. Almost all of us have worked in the Classic for Sophomores for several years, we work well together, and we all have had success coaching some of the best high school teams in the nation. The point of this is that there is no "top" sophomore lab and there is no "lower" lab - no matter which lab you are placed in, across all three labs, you will have excellent lab leaders and some of the best sophomore debaters in the country.

 

Michigan, as a whole, focuses on the topic, strategy and research skills. We are much more than "an evidence mill" - the argument and evidence set produced by Michigan is important to defining the scope and direction of the topic for the year as a whole. You will walk away with more than just a large set of evidence - you will learn How to produce that evidence, write quality blocks, organize files properly and how to become self sufficient in evidence production for your team. All camps have different things that they emphasize. Some camps focus on Speaking Skills, some focus on specific arguments, and some focus on Debate theory. Our camp focuses on the Topic and on Research skills - that doesn't mean that we ignore speaking skills or kritiks or the theory, just that our Emphasis is on Topic Evidence. If that is what you are looking for, Michigan Classic would be an outstanding camp for you.

 

If you have anymore questions about Michigan Classic for Sophomores, please ask, because I have worked there for 11 years.

 

Tim Alderete

 

yes but did we put out Baudrillard!?

 

largest problem with michigan

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baldwin,

 

get off cross x and read nietzsche.

 

michigan will corrupt you and make you run DAs--YOU DONT WANT THAT.

 

haha not but really, michigan is really good

 

 

Layne, you're such a freak.

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I don't think people should make comparisons about camps they haven't gone too.

 

I've been to Michigan for two years--Michigan Classic and 7 week Juniors. Both programs are outstanding and cater to debaters needs. In Classic, there was a good emphasis on research and a good emphasis on skill development as well as practice debates and speeches. The lab leaders are always more than willing to help and are intelligent and provide a good, fun and learning environment. Michigan Classic also is fun in the social aspect because Ann Arbor is amazing and debaters gain exposure to other national debaters around the world.

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hey i have a question. i wanna go to classic, but i am already a soph. is classic for juniors jst as sweet as it sounds for sophs?

 

i personally dont think so, but that might be because i compare it to 7 week

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I was at classic last year - in Alderete's lab, actually, as I hope he might remember :P

 

Personally, it was a incredibly fun experience and I met a lot of people (Layne included, unfortunately, JKJK) as well as hung out with old friends - lab leaders were really cool and the campus is awesome; i've never gone to Northwestern, but Michigan was really awesome

 

I'll be going back for 7 week this year

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I don't think people should make comparisons about camps they haven't gone too.

 

I've been to Michigan for two years--Michigan Classic and 7 week Juniors. Both programs are outstanding and cater to debaters needs. In Classic, there was a good emphasis on research and a good emphasis on skill development as well as practice debates and speeches. The lab leaders are always more than willing to help and are intelligent and provide a good, fun and learning environment. Michigan Classic also is fun in the social aspect because Ann Arbor is amazing and debaters gain exposure to other national debaters around the world.

 

At the same time, however, you assume that whatever caters you well will do the same for others. I'm simply giving my input on lab leaders which would apply to everyone.

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hey i have a question. i wanna go to classic, but i am already a soph. is classic for juniors jst as sweet as it sounds for sophs?

 

I can't speak with total confidence (I went as a sophomore), but my partner went to Classic as a junior two summers ago and said it was definitely a worthwhile experience.

 

If you can, though, definitely go to 7 Week. I think I've spoken all over the forum about it, but to reiterate: Excellent lab leaders, high level of competition, great preperation for the year.

 

Rock on, Michigan.

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At the same time, however, you assume that whatever caters you well will do the same for others. I'm simply giving my input on lab leaders which would apply to everyone.

 

i'm not assuming that. I'm just describing my own personal experience. People are free to believe what they want.

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I went to Classic Juniors.

 

It was fun, but you'll wish you had signed up for 7 Week. If you can't go to 7 Week/don't get in, I would probably consider NU instead.

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First thing's first, you can't go wrong with either of those camps. My partner went to Zarefsky sophs last year and it seemed to suit him really well, though I can't really speak for him. I went to the classic for sophomores, and I can highly recommend it. Tim already said most of what I could about the curriculum aspects, so I'll just add that the campus is nice, the lab leaders are great, and the practice rounds are really helpful. You should do what you can to talk to someone who went to Zs, though, or else you'll only get Michigan's side of the story.

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Well, NU has had the most successful college debate team ever, and their lab leaders this summer will be amazing once again, so there is nothing to worry about other than cost if you want to go to NU.

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For Z Scholars -

 

Keep checking our website, http://www.championshipdebategroup.org, for the brochure and application will be updated within the next week or two.

 

If you have specific questions, feel free to email zscholars@gmail.com, and I will do my best to answer them, or find the answers if I don't have them.

 

Thanks!

 

Jessica Spanier

Admissions Coordinator

Zarefsky Scholars 2008

zscholars@gmail.com

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I was at classic last year - in Alderete's lab, actually, as I hope he might remember :P

 

Personally, it was a incredibly fun experience and I met a lot of people (Layne included, unfortunately, JKJK) as well as hung out with old friends - lab leaders were really cool and the campus is awesome; i've never gone to Northwestern, but Michigan was really awesome

 

I'll be going back for 7 week this year

 

 

Angela is going to michigan - this is a reason why nobody should go

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Hi everyone!

 

There is now a facebook group! Search "Zarefsky Scholars 2008" and join if you're thinking about coming to camp!

 

As always, if you have any questions, feel free to ask!

 

Jessica Spanier

Admissions Coordinator

Zarefsky Scholars 2008

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