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Little Miss Sunshine

A thread to post your most outrageous beliefs.

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I believe that posting on this thread is ridiculous and that no one should post on it.

But at the same time i believe all hypocrites should be executed.

And I believe I should never be executed.

Also, logical paradoxes don't exists.

 

That should spin some heads.

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Wow, that's actually a nice sequence you got there, Lewis.

 

I believe lying is bad, which seems to be outrageous in today's society.

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Um... don't kill me, but I have this belief that Hitler wasn't truly as evil as to what most everyone makes him out to be.

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most outrageous of all:

 

i believe that giving public health assistance to sub Saharan Africa would actually cause a nuclear war between the US and China.

 

(actually i dont but oh well...)

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I know I'm gonna get slaughtered but here we go:

 

1) I also don't believe Hitler was the evil person people make him out to be

2) I believe that the media (both left and right wing) is destroying this society

3) I believe FGM is morally justifiable

4) I believe that we are so far from the concepts that built this country that we will never be able to get back and that America is doomed to fall like the Roman Empire sooner than most people want to believe

5) I believe that Jeffery Dahmer, Charles Manson and most serial killers are NOT insane nor evil

6) I believe that politicians fetishize the future and the youth

7) I believe that people are intrinsically racist, sexist and nationalistic

8) I believe in a system of "you make the money, you keep the money"

9) I believe that people are inherently weak-minded and that by turning to things like "god" or "the goodness of human nature" they are just 'protecting' themselves against the harsh reality of the world

10) I believe that when we die, there is nothing but an empty void and within a short amount of time we will be forgotten and nothing we do on this earth will have matter in the slightest

 

I truly believe these things, no sarcasm.

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9) I believe that people are inherently weak-minded and that by turning to things like "god" or "the goodness of human nature" they are just 'protecting' themselves against the harsh reality of the world

quote]

 

Wait, Logic is outragous now?

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Wait, Logic is outragous now?

 

 

The minute you can logically prove the existence of something that by definition is beyond the realm of human logic you will have done something great philosophers have been trying to do for thousands of years.

 

Wow, thats a long sentence...

 

And for those of you who neg-reped me based on number 3, let me explain.

 

I don't believe FGM is a good idea, but who are we to say its "immoral?" I'm a moral relativist, and I believe that for a western culture to tell a tribe in Africa "you can't do that because its immoral" is in itself immoral. Who are we to say what's right and wrong? I've always said I'm gonna laugh when we die and the Zebra god or whatever (not to be culturally insensitive, just ignorant) sends us to hell. We can tell people not to do something because we are more 'advanced' or have bigger guns than them? How would you like it if all of a sudden Africa became the world power and forced you to mutilate your daughters genitals? Oh, you wouldn't? Then why the fuck can you tell them how to live their lives?

 

Again, I DO NOT believe its a good idea, and I would certainly never practice it, but I don't believe its our right to tell people what's "moral" and "immoral."

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i believe if the previous poster read philosophy with any depth, s/he'd realize that relativism is super dumb.

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To open with: One of the problems with a position as relativistic as yours (Blade66609's) is that it is tautologically untenable. If you have no right to ever take a position, you cannot say relativism is right or that non-relativism is wrong. If you do have a right to take a position, you are not a relativist (at least not in the broad sense you're advocating). In practice, this means that you can't condemn the people forcing FGM on girls and young women, on the grounds that you can't tell them what to do, even though forced FGM is not just telling people what to do, it is actually forcibly doing it to them. If it's wrong to impose on another's values and decisions (as relativism would believe), FGM seems like the epitome of something you would oppose (as it is usually performed on young girls who are unable to comprehend what is being done to them and to make an informed choice about, making it seriously coerced even if it is "voluntary"; occasionally, it is even forced).

 

Additionally, FGM is something I feel pretty damn comfortable saying is "immoral" "wrong" "bad" or any other term you want to use. FGM, in the vast majority of its forms, frequently produces scarring and tissue damage, inhibits female sexual pleasure, induces severe pain, and sometimes inhibits bodily functions such as sexual intercourse and childbirth, and causes infection or death through shock when performed under unsanitary conditions or without anesthesia. It serves no medical purpose whatsoever. It can have lifelong medical consequences due to constant urinary tract infections or the buildup of trapped menstrual blood. It can cause the death of infants and/or mothers in childbirth. The social justifications of it nearly always boil down to the grossly sexist (increases male pleasure, prevents females from engaging in masturbation or sexual intercourse) to the patently absurd (promotion of social cohesion). I have never heard a single argument which even begins to outweigh the severity of the harms. This means I start out leaning away from relativism on this position anyways, and is probably the reason you're getting neg-repped like crazy. "Let them cut off clitorises, it's their right" is offensive and stupid. I'm willing to bet you would not feel the same way about routine castration. At the very least, if you're going be a fucking relativist, defer to women, who know what it's like to have clitori, labia, and vaginas (or who alternately know what it's like to have them removed).

 

I don't believe FGM is a good idea, but who are we to say its "immoral?" I'm a moral relativist, and I believe that for a western culture to tell a tribe in Africa "you can't do that because its immoral" is in itself immoral. Who are we to say what's right and wrong?

Who are we to say what's right and wrong? We're human beings. I have a right to make judgments about certain practices, just like everybody else does. We all make judgments every day (another reason why relativism is untenable), and as long as those judgments are warranted and based on an understanding of the action being judged, I see absolutely no reason with it. I'll tell you if I think what you're doing is wrong, and I think you can do the same back to me. Why is it okay for pro-FGM Africans to say it's okay, but I'm not allowed to say it's not okay?

 

I've always said I'm gonna laugh when we die and the Zebra god or whatever (not to be culturally insensitive, just ignorant) sends us to hell. We can tell people not to do something because we are more 'advanced' or have bigger guns than them?

We don't have the right because we're more advanced or have bigger guns. We have the right because we are people, just like them. If you want to actually engage in an equal relationship with someone, you can't be afraid of telling them that you think they're doing something wrong. I think it's more disrespectful to treat Africans as people who need to be protected from our opinions than it is to engage in honest dialogue. If I got to talk to someone who performed FGM, I'd tell them what I thought, and any softening of my opinion would be purely so that they would continue to listen to me instead of kicking me out.

 

How would you like it if all of a sudden Africa became the world power and forced you to mutilate your daughters genitals? Oh, you wouldn't? Then why the fuck can you tell them how to live their lives?

You know why I wouldn't like it? Because female genital mutilation is fucking wrong. They would be forcing me to do something which has serious physical/material consequences (listed above) and which would violate my daughter's right to not have parts of her body lopped off.

 

Also, requiring someone to NOT do something is not the same as requiring someone TO do something. A law forbidding murder is an attempt to preserve the autonomy and right to life of every person. Even if this law would curtail the right to murder someone, murdering someone is probably not something you have the right to do, and even if you did another person's right to not get murdered would probably outweigh. The same is true with FGM.

 

Again, I DO NOT believe its a good idea, and I would certainly never practice it, but I don't believe its our right to tell people what's "moral" and "immoral."

 

Every person has a right to hold their own beliefs. On this, I agree with you. However, there is (a) nothing wrong with other people judging those beliefs, and (B) no right to act on these beliefs when they harm others. For instance, you have every right to believe that human sacrifice is key to salvation; however, it's okay for other people to tell you you're an idiot and have an argument about it with you, and it's not okay for you to go around sacrificing unwilling victims. I see absolutely no reason why it would be wrong to argue with someone or disagree with them; disagreement is not inherently disrespect and disrespect does not require the prohibition of a particular thought anyways. Although I wish everyone would realize that FGM is bad, I understand their right to believe otherwise. That doesn't mean I have to like them or let them do it.

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I think your last post, while good, was based on 2 misconceptions you (rhetorique) have about my post: it was based on individual moral relativism and I'm saying do absolutely nothing. My argument was based on cultural differences, not individual ones. You ask why they are allowed to say its ok, but you are not, but I say you are free to say whatever you want. Discourse between cultures (and individuals) on morality is a good idea. The US, the UN, or you as a person can certainly go into Africa and have a discussion with someone about why you personally believe that FGM, or anything else is wrong. There can be an open exchange of ideas and change may be brought about that way.

 

Its when one country goes into another country and says that you CANNOT do this because we consider it morally wrong that I begin to have problems. For instance, FGM could never be practiced in America, because it is against the law. I don't give two shits if my neighbor thinks FGM is the greatest thing since sliced bread, as long as he doesn't actually do it. In these African countries, its not against the law. So is it our job or right to change their entire legal system (or whatever sibilance of one they have) just because we find the idea uncomfortable as a culture? Is that our right/duty? If so, where does this right come from? And why don't they have the same right to start pushing their system on us?

 

It comes down to this: I don't personally believe FGM is right, morally, ethically or in any other way. The culture we live in reflects my views by a large majority. It comes down to what we do with that. I believe, and all I'm trying to say is, we cannot use hardpower of any sort when something as shaky as morality is concerned. Discourse is fine, and in fact I encourage it, but to be quite honest our morality system, which is based on individual rights is an extremely recent development. Its only been since the Enlightenment that the concept that each individual has certain rights that are intrinsic to them, no matter of status, has been here. They have lived by this code of ethics for thousands of years, and I dare say it worked before we came and fucked their world up. Who are we to destroy something that well established because we don't think its a good idea? Its the same as the Native Americans. The true nature of that once great culture has been replaced by a mockery. What happened to them was a tragedy, and (callous as this may seem) I'd rather FGM continue than see that happen to Africa.

 

Did I cover everything? If not please let me know and I'll try to better explain/better see your arguments.

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I believe the sun should never set upon an argument

I believe we place our happiness in other people's hands

I believe that junk food tastes so good because it's bad for you

I believe your parents did the best job they knew how to do

I believe that beauty magazines promote low self esteem

I believe I'm loved when I'm completely by myself alone

 

I believe in Karma what you give is what you get returned

I believe you can't appreciate real love 'til you've been burned

I believe the grass is no more greener on the other side

I believe you don't know what you've got until you say goodbye

 

I believe you can't control or choose your sexuality

I believe that trust is more important than monogamy

I believe your most attractive features are your heart and soul

I believe that family is worth more than money or gold

I believe the struggle for financial freedom is unfair

I believe the only ones who disagree are millionaires

 

I believe in Karma what you give is what you get returned

I believe you can't appreciate real love 'til you've been burned

I believe the grass is no more greener on the other side

I believe you don't know what you've got until you say goodbye

 

I believe forgiveness is the key to your own happiness

I believe that wedded bliss negates the need to be undressed

I believe that God does not endorse TV evangelists

I believe in love surviving death into eternity

 

I believe in Karma what you give is what you get returned

I believe you can't appreciate real love 'til you've been burned

I believe the grass is no more greener on the other side

I believe you don't know what you've got until you say goodbye

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believe it or not, I am actually an ancient Babylonian, awoken from a terrible slumber destined to desrtoy all humanity. No joke

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I believe in God.

I believe Mormons are a cult.

I believe that God does not approve of TV Evangalists or forced conversion or anything else that makes us look bad that we don't condone.

I believe that moral relativism is the most retarted thing I've ever heard of.

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i believe that this thread should not have been bumped a year after people had stopped posting on it

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i firmly believe a flying spaghetti monster created the universe with his noodly appendage...

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